FA 2020

[jimkelly02]

5 hours ago, Humble_Beast said:

We als so have Ferrell and Max in rookie deals for a few more years, we could afford to spend money on another DE

Very fair point.... 

We only have average starters to resign in  ‘21 and ‘22.

In ‘22 Kolton Miller will be under a 5th year option for something like 12-13M.... if he plays well we should extend him early and use the cheaper, controlled 5th year option year as the year in the extension we pay him the most and lower the other years cap numbers.

We NEED to extend the ‘19 class a year early which would be ‘22/‘23  It’ll be imperative we use that last controlled year to give them a big pay raise....

Quick easy example:

Mullen becomes a UFA in ‘22 so we give him an extension in the ‘22 offseason of 4yr, 60M (15APY).  The extension locks him up for ‘23-‘26.  But his ‘22 cap number is only 2.3M so we give him an roster bonus in ‘22 of 10M and his cap number becomes 12.3M.  But then over the next 4 years his cap numbers are only averaging 12.5M.  We signed him early for 15M APY when he prolly would have gotten 17/18M APY in FA and structured it so he’s always going to be relatively cheap throughout the life of his deal.

those are made up numbers to keep it simple btw.

We’ll have to resign our draft classes like this in order to keep them all and still be able to keep other talent and have money sign the occasional UFA.

[Darbsk]

1 hour ago, MrOaktown_56 said:

Let's be real. Carl Nassib is young and cost controlled, but he isn't 70% of the player that clowney is.

I think you may be pleasantly surprised this season,............ Nassib has more pass rush moves and is more of a technician than Clowney, he hasn't got the name recognition or flash plays but I'd recommend looking a little closer at some of his film. Hot motor and he really uses those long levers.

[Darbsk]

27 minutes ago, jimkelly02 said:

Here’s a real real simple take:
 

We just can’t put 25M into Clowney and Nassib and only walk away with 8 sacks and solid run defense.  Not to mention still not have a DE who can pressure the OT to the outside with speed AND moves.

———-

Nassib is 50% the player a Clowney for 50% the cost.  Same type of player but Clowney is just massively more athletic.  Theyre both solid run defenders who can occasionally catch a OT slipping but will never be able to consistently get pressure because they lack moves and double moves and speed.  
 

If you spend 25M on DE you Have to get Traditional outside pressure: plain and simple.

 

Note: when I say Nassib is 50% of the player as Clowney I’m not saying Nassib is close to Clowney as a player what I’m saying is their isn’t a massive pass rush production different and they have a similar game, albeit the other 50% (the difference) is a massive athletic difference.  Although I would add Nassib is actually pretty athletic and is no stiff.  He’s played OLB at a nice level. He’s not Josh Mauro!

I think we're massively underrating Nassib as a pass rusher here. He's long and plays with good leverage, non stop motor (as cliché as that is) watching him, he's going to I believe assume the Dion Jordan role and whilst he's not the athlete Clowney is I wouldn't be at all surprised if he statistically exceeds Clowney as a pass rusher this year as I think he'll feature all over and can even rush from LB. He's good.

[jimkelly02]

1 hour ago, Darbsk said:

I think we're massively underrating Nassib as a pass rusher here. He's long and plays with good leverage, non stop motor (as cliché as that is) watching him, he's going to I believe assume the Dion Jordan role and whilst he's not the athlete Clowney is I wouldn't be at all surprised if he statistically exceeds Clowney as a pass rusher this year as I think he'll feature all over and can even rush from LB. He's good.

Yeah he’s good.... but nothing special. 
 

He’s a 6 sack a year player, at best maxes out at 8.... because:

Most of his sacks Come from him fighting thru the pass block and getting to the QB just in time.  He almost never just blows by a OT for a quick sack.

He lacks double moves and lacks speed

He lacks the ability to consistently beat OT  to the outside.

Hes a solid player nonetheless and I’ve never said he wasn’t.  Every time I challenged he’d the deal he got I mentioned he’s solid nonetheless.

How can you massively under rate a 6 sack player whose max is 8 sacks?  You’d literally have to say “he sucks” which no one did.

 

I agree with your point that Nassib will be a solid rotational piece for us at DE and his presence negates the NEED for Clowney because they are similar in many ways, despite being different athletically.

Edited July 12, 2020 by jimkelly02

[Darbsk]

6 hours ago, jimkelly02 said:

Yeah he’s good.... but nothing special. 
 

He’s a 6 sack a year player, at best maxes out at 8.... because:

Most of his sacks Come from him fighting thru the pass block and getting to the QB just in time.  He almost never just blows by a OT for a quick sack.

He lacks double moves and lacks speed

He lacks the ability to consistently beat OT  to the outside.

Hes a solid player nonetheless and I’ve never said he wasn’t.  Every time I challenged he’d the deal he got I mentioned he’s solid nonetheless.

How can you massively under rate a 6 sack player whose max is 8 sacks?  You’d literally have to say “he sucks” which no one did.

 

I agree with your point that Nassib will be a solid rotational piece for us at DE and his presence negates the NEED for Clowney because they are similar in many ways, despite being different athletically.

Massively underrated as in referencing what you said above, 50% the player but with possibly 90% the production, I think he may even exceed the production of Clowney so in that case he'd actually be a better option. Based on what he brings to the team versus the cost he's IMO a much better value than Clowney and as most people are in favour of bringing in Clowney we seem to be massively underrating his potential impact.

[Trojan]

The Nassib is 50-70% ____ Clowney, the fill in the blank is "star/name recognition of".

One thing I like about the Nassib signing that I'm not sure we really had is he does that "JJ Swatt" move where his arms pop up into the passing lanes when his rush isn't going to get him to the QB. The dude is like 6'7" too so it's pretty effective. If I had to spend the money of a rotational quality guy right now I'd want a offensive tackle to back up Kolton and Trent. Tackles take a beating and one might miss some games and if either are out we are a significantly worse team. A Jason Peters or Cordy Glenn or whatever I havent followed in years, but surely one of the OT left on the market has relative health (at least veteran backup with potential to start 1-8 games). I don't want Kolton playing with a twisted ankle Trent Moving to LT and rolling Sharpe/Parker out there. We wouldn't be close to the same offense.
 

[jimkelly02]

6 hours ago, Trojan said:

The Nassib is 50-70% ____ Clowney, the fill in the blank is "star/name recognition of".

One thing I like about the Nassib signing that I'm not sure we really had is he does that "JJ Swatt" move where his arms pop up into the passing lanes when his rush isn't going to get him to the QB. The dude is like 6'7" too so it's pretty effective. If I had to spend the money of a rotational quality guy right now I'd want a offensive tackle to back up Kolton and Trent. Tackles take a beating and one might miss some games and if either are out we are a significantly worse team. A Jason Peters or Cordy Glenn or whatever I havent followed in years, but surely one of the OT left on the market has relative health (at least veteran backup with potential to start 1-8 games). I don't want Kolton playing with a twisted ankle Trent Moving to LT and rolling Sharpe/Parker out there. We wouldn't be close to the same offense.
 

Don’t sleep on Sharpe.... he could start over the bottom 1/4 of the leagues RTs.  Go back and watch his tape last year he played very very well.  I have zero worries if he has to start at RT for a few game stretch this season.

But LT.... that’s a different story.... we should get someone in here ASAP to try and beat out Parker.  Sam Young ain’t the answer to the backup LT job, he’s a RT only at this point of his career.  Parker’s development was poorly done.... we still don’t know if he’d be better at LT than RT.... he needs to really have a strong camp to make the team.  We can’t trust that will happen and should bring in a veteran LT to compete with him.  I wouldn’t mind Glenn or Peters at all, but I doubt Peters takes a near vet minimum deal to be a backup.

[MrOaktown_56]

16 minutes ago, jimkelly02 said:

Don’t sleep on Sharpe.... he could start over the bottom 1/4 of the leagues RTs.  Go back and watch his tape last year he played very very well.  I have zero worries if he has to start at RT for a few game stretch this season.

But LT.... that’s a different story.... we should get someone in here ASAP to try and beat out Parker.  Sam Young ain’t the answer to the backup LT job, he’s a RT only at this point of his career.  Parker’s development was poorly done.... we still don’t know if he’d be better at LT than RT.... he needs to really have a strong camp to make the team.  We can’t trust that will happen and should bring in a veteran LT to compete with him.  I wouldn’t mind Glenn or Peters at all, but I doubt Peters takes a near vet minimum deal to be a backup.

Parker was a weird pick that i still don't understand.

[jimkelly02]

1 minute ago, MrOaktown_56 said:

Parker was a weird pick that i still don't understand.

Yeah.... I think the only way to salvage him is stick him at LT only and see if he can stick.  His movement skills at RT where D2 level.... idk if he’s just not comfortable at RT or what.  But we’ll find out this offseason if he’s got the makings of a backup LT or not, in which case he’s gone.

[drfrey13]

17 minutes ago, jimkelly02 said:

Yeah.... I think the only way to salvage him is stick him at LT only and see if he can stick.  His movement skills at RT where D2 level.... idk if he’s just not comfortable at RT or what.  But we’ll find out this offseason if he’s got the makings of a backup LT or not, in which case he’s gone.

He should have never been put on the right side.  I said it from the beginning that he is a LT and the past few years have proven he is not a RT.  Not saying he will be a good LT or even make the team but that is the only spot he could succeed at.

[Humble_Beast]

1 hour ago, jimkelly02 said:

Yeah.... I think the only way to salvage him is stick him at LT only and see if he can stick.  His movement skills at RT where D2 level.... idk if he’s just not comfortable at RT or what.  But we’ll find out this offseason if he’s got the makings of a backup LT or not, in which case he’s gone.

Good coaches try to make it Easy for players to shine, and play to their strengths. I think they tried to develop Parker as a swing tackle. Just stick him at LT and make it easier for him, so guys struggle playing different roles. Sharpe is a solid backup RT, so we aren’t desperate for depth at that spot. I always thought Sharpe could be a starting RG but I don’t think he will ever get a chance. I personally think we are fine with Sharpe and Parker as RT/LT depth. If Parker looks really bad in camp, Atleast we have another vet who has proved he can provide depth in the NFL(Young). 

[agarcia34]

He would look nice in that jersey 

[RaidersAreOne]

17 minutes ago, agarcia34 said:

He would look nice in that jersey 

Everyone does tbh.

[drfrey13]

1 hour ago, RaidersAreOne said:

Everyone does tbh.

I even look good in it.  Maybe not good but better.

[Humble_Beast]

😑at this Clowney tease....