VanS Posted January 15, 2020 Author Share Posted January 15, 2020 20 minutes ago, jrry32 said: Uh huh. Here are the second through fourth seasons of two QBs:QB A 29-19 record 1031/1651 62.4% completion percentage 12,679 passing yards (4226 per year) 7.7 YPA 85 passing TDs (28 per year) 53 Ints (18 per year) 89.9 passer rating QB B 33-14 record 1054/1664 63.3% completion percentage 13,130 passing yards (4377 per year) 7.9 YPA 82 passing TDs (27 per year) 35 Ints (12 per year) 95.4 passer rating QB A was Peyton Manning. QB B is Jared Goff. Both were 23 to 25 years old during those stretches. There are only 5 QBs in NFL history who posted 10,000+ passing yards, 80+ passing TDs, and a 95+ passer rating over their second through fourth seasons in the NFL. They are: Kurt Warner, Russell Wilson, Carson Wentz, Dan Marino, and Jared Goff. I expect Patrick Mahomes (and maybe Deshaun Watson) to join the club next year. http://pfref.com/tiny/YwZ9S Different era. Silly to compare stats from when Peyton was young to now. With that said, if you wanna die on the Jared Goff hill go right ahead. Most people have rightfully jumped off his bandwagon and concluded that it was Sean McVay that made him look better than he really was in 2017 and 2018. Now it looks like the league has caught up with McVay and the real Jared Goff is back. But hey if you think he's Peyton Manning I won't stop you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jlowe22 Posted January 17, 2020 Share Posted January 17, 2020 On 1/14/2020 at 10:15 PM, VanS said: Agreed. And I don't see much difference every Sunday between most QBs on that front. I do. At least the ones I watch. There was a clear and obvious difference in accuracy between Brees and Bridgewater. Bridgewater would miss wide open guys, or put the ball in a spot that made the receiver work. Brees very rarely missed throws like that. Not that Bridgewater was bad, he wasn't, but with the same supporting cast as Brees had clearly worse accuracy than Brees. I've heard Chiefs fans say similar things they noticed between Matt Cassell and Alex Smith. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrry32 Posted January 17, 2020 Share Posted January 17, 2020 On 1/15/2020 at 1:20 AM, VanS said: Different era. Silly to compare stats from when Peyton was young to now. With that said, if you wanna die on the Jared Goff hill go right ahead. Most people have rightfully jumped off his bandwagon and concluded that it was Sean McVay that made him look better than he really was in 2017 and 2018. Now it looks like the league has caught up with McVay and the real Jared Goff is back. But hey if you think he's Peyton Manning I won't stop you. It won't be me dying on the Jared Goff hill. That's the fun part of all this. But I can't expect self awareness from the guy bleeding out on the Josh Dobbs dirt pile. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scoundrel Posted January 17, 2020 Share Posted January 17, 2020 Of course someone managed to make this thread about Jared Goff. My goodness 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MWil23 Posted January 17, 2020 Share Posted January 17, 2020 10 hours ago, Counselor said: Of course someone managed to make this thread about Jared Goff. My goodness If I play this right, I can turn it into a Brady vs. Manning thread. 10 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danger Posted January 17, 2020 Share Posted January 17, 2020 On 1/15/2020 at 12:56 AM, jrry32 said: QB A was Peyton Manning. QB B is Jared Goff. Both were 23 to 25 years old during those stretches. There are only 5 QBs in NFL history who posted 10,000+ passing yards, 80+ passing TDs, and a 95+ passer rating over their second through fourth seasons in the NFL. They are: Kurt Warner, Russell Wilson, Carson Wentz, Dan Marino, and Jared Goff. I expect Patrick Mahomes (and maybe Deshaun Watson) to join the club next year. http://pfref.com/tiny/YwZ9S This lacks context though. Different eras. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrry32 Posted January 17, 2020 Share Posted January 17, 2020 3 hours ago, Danger said: This lacks context though. Different eras. That's only if you assume I'm arguing Goff is better than Manning. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danger Posted January 17, 2020 Share Posted January 17, 2020 18 minutes ago, jrry32 said: That's only if you assume I'm arguing Goff is better than Manning. Usually when one tries to put stats side by side like that, it's to imply that their performance is comparable. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrry32 Posted January 17, 2020 Share Posted January 17, 2020 2 minutes ago, Danger said: Usually when one tries to put stats side by side like that, it's to imply that their performance is comparable. The greater point was to shine a light on how well Goff has done for his age. Manning and Goff have had similar career trajectories, even down to the down fourth years. Haters gonna hate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jlowe22 Posted January 17, 2020 Share Posted January 17, 2020 Some of Manning’s early years were bad even for that era. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warsawian Posted January 19, 2020 Share Posted January 19, 2020 On 1/15/2020 at 7:15 AM, VanS said: Agreed. And I don't see much difference every Sunday between most QBs on that front. The biggest difference I see in QBs is when it comes to reading the defense and making the decision of where to throw. The actual mechanics of delivering the ball are very similar for most QBs. I think people just like to hype up accuracy when its the trait with the least variability among QBs. Great point! Lets talk on this. I do not think all NFL QBs are on the same level as far as accuracy. I agree that they are for the most part all above average, there are some QB's that just have incredible ball placement and excellent accuracy. This is one of the attributes that sets them over the top, like Aaron Rogers. Like another poster said, there have definitely been some NFL QBs with below average to average accuracy, Matt Cassell and Eli Manning come to mind. I do agree that the biggest difference in successful QBs in the NFL is reading the defense and making the correct decision. A key part of what goes into that is a QBs vision and ability to see the field. Some guys just get tunnel vision and for whatever reason cannot work through their reads. It is a mental instinct thing like fight or flight that most of the times cannot be learned. This to me is a defining trait of top QB prospects that bust in the NFL. Circling back, I find your statement ironic because you seem to focus on physical traits and the very subject of this entire thread is about Joe Burrow and how he is not worthy of being a top pick. When in fact one of his key defining traits is that he has excellent field vision, reads the defense, and makes the correct decision. On top of having excellent ball placement, which you apparently undervalue. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VanS Posted January 20, 2020 Author Share Posted January 20, 2020 (edited) 14 hours ago, warsawian said: Circling back, I find your statement ironic because you seem to focus on physical traits and the very subject of this entire thread is about Joe Burrow and how he is not worthy of being a top pick. When in fact one of his key defining traits is that he has excellent field vision, reads the defense, and makes the correct decision. On top of having excellent ball placement, which you apparently undervalue. If there were no coaches then this would be a great point. But we know coaching can make a huge difference when it comes to presnap reads (especially in college). Sean McVay famously was telling Jared Goff where to go with the ball presnap in 2017 and 2018. This made Jared Goff look like an MVP candidate until the Super Bowl when Bill Belichek didn't show his true defense until the QB/coach mic was turned off. This forced Goff to read the defense himself without the aide of his coach and we all saw how that turned out. The explosive Rams turned in the worst offensive performance in Super Bowl history. How sure are you that it wasn't Joe Brady and the LSU coaches that made Joe Burrow this season? This is why I typically stick to ratings players primarily on their physical tools. When you try to give a player credit for traits like reading a defense you can never be sure its really him or the coaches. With Burrow its even more damning given how unimpressive he was the year before. If this was Burrow's first year of significant action then I might be more open to your argument. But given he showed none of this last year I'm gonna go with this being more about the coaches than Joe Burrow. Edited January 20, 2020 by VanS Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrry32 Posted January 20, 2020 Share Posted January 20, 2020 4 minutes ago, VanS said: Sean McVay famously was telling Jared Goff where to go with the ball presnap in 2017 and 2018. This made Jared Goff look like an MVP candidate until the Super Bowl when Bill Belichek didn't show his true defense until the QB/coach mic was turned off. This forced Goff to read the defense himself without the aide of his coach and we all saw how that turned out. This is all wrong and very stupid. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scoundrel Posted January 20, 2020 Share Posted January 20, 2020 This is still about Goff? My goodness just stop. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scoundrel Posted January 20, 2020 Share Posted January 20, 2020 The thread is about Joe Burrow. But guys can’t help but derail something to their own players. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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