Myles Garrett suspended indefinitely

[Soggust]

4 hours ago, SmittyBacall said:

NFL officials, who deem nearly everything these days as excessive, didn't think so. There was no flag on the tackle because there was nothing wrong with the tackle. It was well within the rule book. Garrett was literally engaged in the act of tackling before the ball was released, enough so that it could be argued he didn't know the ball was released at all. He's free to wrap that player up by rule and take him to the ground. Players are literally coached to do this. 

I can't believe we're getting to the point as fans that we are complaining about this hit being unnecessary. It was such an unbelievably soft tackle that's being dissected because of the aftermath. It was a simple wrap up job. Get over it, people. 

This is obviously flawed logic though. 

I mean, was there no pass interference against Robey-Coleman because no flag was thrown? In fact, there was no flag thrown on Rudolph during this play, so clearly he did nothing wrong, right? 

I don't think it should be a RTP,  but in 2019 that gets called more often than not for sure. We have seen it called on FAR less egregious plays than that.

[Soggust]

3 hours ago, MWil23 said:

That's 3-4 things presnap that should have been done differently, all of which were controllable. Granted, Myles and company, are both responsible for their actions. Myles leads the league in roughing the passer penalties, but I'd also point out a few things:

1. No flag was thrown for RTP on the play.

2. Rudolph was definitely the instigator. He PULLS Myles down on top of him, puts his hands in his helmet/earhole, and clearly tries to pry off Myles Garrett's helmet. He then kicks him repeatedly in the nether-region.

3. At this point, Myles does the indefensible and drags Rudolph around by his facemask and pries the helmet off. At this point, if he drops the helmet/throws it ala Kyle Turley a decade ago, he's ejected and maybe suspended 1-2 other games.

4. Rudolph then RE-ENGAGES Myles to fight him instead of walking away.

5. The helmet shot and melee then proceeds from there.

1. Irrelevant for reasons in my previous post.

2. The only part of this that has any merit is that he likely he tried to pull off Garrett's helmet.

3. Agreed.

4. "to fight him" is subjective. He doesn't throw a punch. He is screaming, pissed, trying to get his helmet etc. but nothing there says he is trying to engage in a fight.

5. Agreed.

[SmittyBacall]

5 minutes ago, Soggust said:

This is obviously flawed logic though. 

I mean, was there no pass interference against Robey-Coleman because no flag was thrown? In fact, there was no flag thrown on Rudolph during this play, so clearly he did nothing wrong, right? 

I get what you're saying. But the point I'm trying to make is that NFL officials watch these hits on the QBs like a hawk. They are always at the ready to throw a flag in regards to player safety (with QB being the most paramount).

11 minutes ago, Soggust said:

I don't think it should be a RTP,  but in 2019 that gets called more often than not for sure. We have seen it called on FAR less egregious plays than that.

I disagree. This is also flawed logic. Bad/weak calls now they set the precedent for what should and shouldn't be called?

[MWil23]

28 minutes ago, Soggust said:

1. Irrelevant for reasons in my previous post.

2. The only part of this that has any merit is that he likely he tried to pull off Garrett's helmet.

3. Agreed.

4. "to fight him" is subjective. He doesn't throw a punch. He is screaming, pissed, trying to get his helmet etc. but nothing there says he is trying to engage in a fight.

5. Agreed.

You're right, on #4, it is subjective. Kicking a man in the nutsack is far from a "fight". It's typically used in women's self defense classes.

As for the other, I audibly laughed at the bold. Let's look at him "trying to get his helmet back"

If he's clearly trying to get his helmet back, then Myles is clearly trying to help him put it back on.

Edited November 19, 2019 by MWil23

[Soggust]

43 minutes ago, SmittyBacall said:

I get what you're saying. But the point I'm trying to make is that NFL officials watch these hits on the QBs like a hawk. They are always at the ready to throw a flag in regards to player safety (with QB being the most paramount).

I disagree. This is also flawed logic. Bad/weak calls now they set the precedent for what should and shouldn't be called?

I think the fact that they have consistently erred on the side of player safety suggests a shift in the interpretation of the rules as opposed to "making bad calls". I personally say it's a bad call because I feel like QBs should generally be treated the same as others, but I believe the increase in flags for RTP is more of a redefinition of the rules.

[Soggust]

37 minutes ago, MWil23 said:

You're right, on #4, it is subjective. Kicking a man in the nutsack is far from a "fight". It's typically used in women's self defense classes.

[Removing Image For Space Conservation]

As for the other, I audibly laughed at the bold. Let's look at him "trying to get his helmet back"

[Removing Image For Space Conservation]

If he's clearly trying to get his helmet back, then Myles is clearly trying to help him put it back on.

Neither of those pictures confirm your position though. 

The first is inconclusive AT BEST and I think that's being incredibly generous. There is nothing in that picture that proves he kicked Garrett once much less "repeatedly" as you inferred previously. If he had, I have to believe we would have more conclusive evidence than one still frame at an awkward angle that shows nothing. 

The second doesn't even make sense. One picture does not show the entire scenario. He didn't try to get his helmet back because he rushed Garrett afterwards? According to this picture, Garrett never even struck Rudolph with the helmet, right? He was just holding it away from him and keeping it from him, according this picture.

Even if Rudolph wasn't going for his helmet (which is debatable), it seems like a weird thing to nitpick considering the sentiment of the statement I made was that unequivocally stating he "re-engages to fight him" is colored perspective.

[MWil23]

*Double Checks*

Nope, I'm not in NFL General, so I'm not sure what the disconnect is.

[oldman9er]

2 hours ago, Soggust said:

I don't think it should be a RTP,  but in 2019 that gets called more often than not for sure. We have seen it called on FAR less egregious plays than that.

Which makes me again wonder, what IF the quarterback hit over the head was Pat Mahomes/Rodgers/Brees/Brady/even Ben Roth?

instead of Mason Rudolph? 

Does anyone think this goes down differently for punishment? What if Mason's head cracked open, blood went everywhere, and dude was clinging to life? Does less or more damage done mean the intent was any less brutal or deliberate? 

... and he's APPEALING THIS suspension in any way? for real??? Lolz

[Hunter2_1]

59 minutes ago, oldman9er said:

Which makes me again wonder, what IF the quarterback hit over the head was Pat Mahomes/Rodgers/Brees/Brady/even Ben Roth?

instead of Mason Rudolph? 

Does anyone think this goes down differently for punishment? What if Mason's head cracked open, blood went everywhere, and dude was clinging to life? Does less or more damage done mean the intent was any less brutal or deliberate? 

... and he's APPEALING THIS suspension in any way? for real??? Lolz

This. 

Myles is lucky that it didn't connect properly. They both are. To appeal this is surprising. 

[Chrissooner49er]

8 minutes ago, Hunter2_1 said:

This. 

Myles is lucky that it didn't connect properly. They both are. To appeal this is surprising. 

Every player appeals. Why is this surprising? It is part of the process.

But if Rudolph had kept his cool, it might have been nothing at all. Looking at him as an instigator, but Garrett is still solely responsible for his reaction.

[Hunter2_1]

5 minutes ago, Chrissooner49er said:

Every player appeals. Why is this surprising? It is part of the process.

But if Rudolph had kept his cool, it might have been nothing at all. Looking at him as an instigator, but Garrett is still solely responsible for his reaction.

If that's so, I didn't know that. I believe in taking your punishment, especially if you've come out and explained how you lost control and how you regret it - as Myles did.

Yeah Rudolph escalated it for sure, but how many players don't at least try and go after their helmet? That's a proper man-shaming if you let a player keep your helmet lol. No player should expect a fellow player wrap the helmet round your head though. I'm sure if he knew that was coming he might have kept back a bit. *** for TAT.

[oldman9er]

51 minutes ago, Hunter2_1 said:

If that's so, I didn't know that. I believe in taking your punishment, especially if you've come out and explained how you lost control and how you regret it - as Myles did.

Yeah Rudolph escalated it for sure, but how many players don't at least try and go after their helmet? That's a proper man-shaming if you let a player keep your helmet lol. No player should expect a fellow player wrap the helmet round your head though. I'm sure if he knew that was coming he might have kept back a bit. *** for TAT.

That is also what I believe Mason was trying to do... and u described the feeling well. Not that it matters, as it was clear to anyone that unprotected head Mason was of no threat to protected Myles. 

.. and like u suggest, if you are expressing contrition (as Myles is alleged to be mimicking).. then you just accept the punishment and quietly pray that it doesn't drag into more. You don't appeal it; that just has a bad look to those that handed the suspension out. Now, I hope they tack on another year. Much like Kaep (Myles is a vastly better player duh), the NFL doesn't need him to rake in billions. 

[Rod Johnson]

2 hours ago, oldman9er said:

Which makes me again wonder, what IF the quarterback hit over the head was Pat Mahomes/Rodgers/Brees/Brady/even Ben Roth?

instead of Mason Rudolph? 

Does anyone think this goes down differently for punishment? What if Mason's head cracked open, blood went everywhere, and dude was clinging to life? Does less or more damage done mean the intent was any less brutal or deliberate? 

... and he's APPEALING THIS suspension in any way? for real??? Lolz

It's impossible to even imagine any of those QBs putting themselves in that situation.

Now if Mason Rudolph was a premier NFL QB and this happened to him?  Also impossible to imagine.

[oldman9er]

19 minutes ago, Rod Johnson said:

It's impossible to even imagine any of those QBs putting themselves in that situation.

Now if Mason Rudolph was a premier NFL QB and this happened to him?  Also impossible to imagine.

As angry as we have seen some of Brady's antics? As entitled as these guys must by now feel on the field and in general life? 

Feels disingenuous to suggest that it's out of the imagination for them to get momentarily furious  over a perceived slight in front of the masses watching. All the more so if two of his OL are in proximity lightly breaking things up. 

[Rod Johnson]

58 minutes ago, oldman9er said:

As angry as we have seen some of Brady's antics? As entitled as these guys must by now feel on the field and in general life? 

Feels disingenuous to suggest that it's out of the imagination for them to get momentarily furious  over a perceived slight in front of the masses watching. All the more so if two of his OL are in proximity lightly breaking things up. 

I think Brady would have just looked for a flag for what he perceived was a late hit.