packfanfb Posted February 4, 2020 Share Posted February 4, 2020 Just throw everything at Chris Jones as your 5T and Javon Hargrave as your 3T and then start Summers and Burks at ILB. Then if it fails, I'll have something to ***** about again in January 2021 because we didn't address the ILB position. Same time next year @Outpost31? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MacReady Posted February 4, 2020 Share Posted February 4, 2020 Just now, packfanfb said: Just throw everything at Chris Jones as your 5T and Javon Hargrave as your 3T and then start Summers and Burks at ILB. Then if it fails, I'll have something to ***** about again in January 2021 because we didn't address the ILB position. Same time next year @Outpost31? No, **** you. I don't want to hear another ILB complaint for 12 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaximusGluteus Posted February 4, 2020 Share Posted February 4, 2020 51 minutes ago, Kenrik said: I'm not a huge fan of Kenneth Murray. Watch his Texas tape. He does have really good range but after that I dont see much. Tackles high, doesn't shed blocks well, wrap up tackler (not that this is bad but Blake is getting ripped for it). Not a good processor either from what I've heard. Sounds like he has it physically but not between the ears. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shanedorf Posted February 5, 2020 Share Posted February 5, 2020 Sharp Football talking about run defense and tackle stats https://www.sharpfootballanalysis.com/analysis/tackles-dont-matter-evaluating-run-defense-through-statistics/ 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MacReady Posted February 5, 2020 Share Posted February 5, 2020 1 hour ago, Shanedorf said: Sharp Football talking about run defense and tackle stats https://www.sharpfootballanalysis.com/analysis/tackles-dont-matter-evaluating-run-defense-through-statistics/ Damn. Martinez defenders take a big hit here. Couple a people here gonna be doing inappropriate things with this article. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlexGreen#20 Posted February 5, 2020 Share Posted February 5, 2020 4 hours ago, Outpost31 said: Damn. Martinez defenders take a big hit here. Couple a people here gonna be doing inappropriate things with this article. What is there to say? Comparing tackle depth without situational analysis is stupid. If Martinez fills his playside B gap, but Fackrell blows contain to the outside, Martinez would be punished for making the great play of getting off of a block and making the tackle 8 yards downfield. How many other ILBs on that list are getting routinely talked with lining up in the B gap and then to play outside contain? That's going to lead to more run yards allowed no matter who the ILB is. Can you imagine how pissed Packer fans would be if we had Bobby Wagner at ILB? As much as Martinez supposedly sucks, Wagner's tackles on average were almost a yard deeper. What a ******* scrub! There is no method listed for run defense points saved, so it's impossible to evaluate the merits of such a statistic. Why do we care about SIS data? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coachbuns Posted February 5, 2020 Share Posted February 5, 2020 1 hour ago, AlexGreen#20 said: What is there to say? Comparing tackle depth without situational analysis is stupid. If Martinez fills his playside B gap, but Fackrell blows contain to the outside, Martinez would be punished for making the great play of getting off of a block and making the tackle 8 yards downfield. How many other ILBs on that list are getting routinely talked with lining up in the B gap and then to play outside contain? That's going to lead to more run yards allowed no matter who the ILB is. Can you imagine how pissed Packer fans would be if we had Bobby Wagner at ILB? As much as Martinez supposedly sucks, Wagner's tackles on average were almost a yard deeper. What a ******* scrub! There is no method listed for run defense points saved, so it's impossible to evaluate the merits of such a statistic. Why do we care about SIS data? Think it was a pretty informative article. Also think it shows what has been the thoughts of many Packer fans throughout the year. He makes lots of tackles no doubt but many are 4-5 yards past line of scrimmage. Better DL play would most certainly help him no doubt in that area but again, that article shows what our eyes see. The question and answer about Martinez has been done in this article. Maybe you don't care about it because it doesn't fit with your thought process regarding him? Imagine there are many that do care. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlexGreen#20 Posted February 5, 2020 Share Posted February 5, 2020 6 minutes ago, coachbuns said: Think it was a pretty informative article. Also think it shows what has been the thoughts of many Packer fans throughout the year. He makes lots of tackles no doubt but many are 4-5 yards past line of scrimmage. Better DL play would most certainly help him no doubt in that area but again, that article shows what our eyes see. The question and answer about Martinez has been done in this article. Maybe you don't care about it because it doesn't fit with your thought process regarding him? Imagine there are many that do care. You understand that a 4 yard tackle is a win for the defense on first down, right? I tend to discount any piece of statistical evidence that tells me Bobby Wagner is a ****ty linebacker. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coachbuns Posted February 5, 2020 Share Posted February 5, 2020 7 minutes ago, AlexGreen#20 said: You understand that a 4 yard tackle is a win for the defense on first down, right? I tend to discount any piece of statistical evidence that tells me Bobby Wagner is a ****ty linebacker. Totally depends on the situation if it's a win or not. If it's 3rd and 2 yards to go ... it's not a win. If it's 1st down and 10 ... yup, it's a win. Problem being is the 3rd and 2 situation happens all to often. Run defense must get better ... need big uglies on the DL to help no doubt. However, that article you dismiss is still informative and insightful. It's all in the eye of the beholder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
squire12 Posted February 5, 2020 Share Posted February 5, 2020 31 minutes ago, coachbuns said: 44 minutes ago, AlexGreen#20 said: You understand that a 4 yard tackle is a win for the defense on first down, right? I tend to discount any piece of statistical evidence that tells me Bobby Wagner is a ****ty linebacker. Totally depends on the situation if it's a win or not. If it's 3rd and 2 yards to go ... it's not a win. If it's 1st down and 10 ... yup, it's a win. Problem being is the 3rd and 2 situation happens all to often. Run defense must get better ... need big uglies on the DL to help no doubt. However, that article you dismiss is still informative and insightful. It's all in the eye of the beholder. Let me make something clear in the comment you responded to. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheOnlyThing Posted February 5, 2020 Author Share Posted February 5, 2020 9 hours ago, Shanedorf said: Sharp Football talking about run defense and tackle stats https://www.sharpfootballanalysis.com/analysis/tackles-dont-matter-evaluating-run-defense-through-statistics/ A couple of snippets: "By looking at ATD+ we further see why total tackles is an extremely limited stat. Packers linebacker Blake Martinez has racked up a league-leading 79 tackles on designed runs, which is 21 more than expected. However, he is making these tackles over a yard further downfield than second-place tackler Zach Cunningham and has one of the worst ATD+ among the run tackle leaders. In another comparison, Martinez is making his tackles almost a full yard further downfield than Broncos safety Kareem Jackson, who leads the league with a ridiculous 158 ATD+." "In this final comparison of the leading run tacklers, we can see that simply racking up a lot of tackles does not equal value to a defense. League leader in tackles Blake Martinez has actually been a negative in the run game for the Packers." As a 3-down ILB, I look forward to a similar analysis of Martinez's contributions to the pass defense where his "speed" really stands out. IT. IS. TIME. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Packerraymond Posted February 5, 2020 Share Posted February 5, 2020 24 minutes ago, TheOnlyThing said: A couple of snippets: "By looking at ATD+ we further see why total tackles is an extremely limited stat. Packers linebacker Blake Martinez has racked up a league-leading 79 tackles on designed runs, which is 21 more than expected. However, he is making these tackles over a yard further downfield than second-place tackler Zach Cunningham and has one of the worst ATD+ among the run tackle leaders. In another comparison, Martinez is making his tackles almost a full yard further downfield than Broncos safety Kareem Jackson, who leads the league with a ridiculous 158 ATD+." "In this final comparison of the leading run tacklers, we can see that simply racking up a lot of tackles does not equal value to a defense. League leader in tackles Blake Martinez has actually been a negative in the run game for the Packers." As a 3-down ILB, I look forward to a similar analysis of Martinez's contributions to the pass defense where his "speed" really stands out. IT. IS. TIME. All that suck and he still unquestionably starts over your boy Gute's draft pick Oren Burks, who was traded up for and taken a whole round higher, man that must hurt. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MacReady Posted February 5, 2020 Share Posted February 5, 2020 4 hours ago, AlexGreen#20 said: What is there to say? Comparing tackle depth without situational analysis is stupid. If Martinez fills his playside B gap, but Fackrell blows contain to the outside, Martinez would be punished for making the great play of getting off of a block and making the tackle 8 yards downfield. How many other ILBs on that list are getting routinely talked with lining up in the B gap and then to play outside contain? That's going to lead to more run yards allowed no matter who the ILB is. Can you imagine how pissed Packer fans would be if we had Bobby Wagner at ILB? As much as Martinez supposedly sucks, Wagner's tackles on average were almost a yard deeper. What a ******* scrub! There is no method listed for run defense points saved, so it's impossible to evaluate the merits of such a statistic. Why do we care about SIS data? I wasn’t suggesting the article was 100% right because you’re right, it doesn’t tell the entire story. I was just saying Martinez haters are gonna... Do stuff to it. It’s already started. It’s like... Yeah, no **** Martinez is making the tackle 4 yards downfield in this scheme. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coachbuns Posted February 5, 2020 Share Posted February 5, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, squire12 said: Let me make something clear in the comment you responded to. Thanks ... Totally agree it's good for 1st down and said so. Article on tackling/Martinez still quite eye opening. I also believe Pettine's run defense scheme sucks. Edited February 5, 2020 by coachbuns Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MacReady Posted February 5, 2020 Share Posted February 5, 2020 I just find it funny how a safety leads the league in the category we’re judging Martinez for. If that doesn’t scream scheme I don’t know what does. If people honestly believe a safety is better at shedding blocks than an ILB, they might be TOT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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