MacReady Posted March 5, 2020 Share Posted March 5, 2020 Just now, Packerraymond said: Beyond Adams there is no YAC to this group. Be it #1 in the league or #32 as far as talent, when your QB ages YAC is an easy way to increase his career span. I don't think we have an awful skill group, it does need to be added to in order to help and aging QB though. I agree with this, but let's be realistic... How many YAC type routes did you see Aaron actually throw? Those drag routes you always see working so well elsewhere... How many of those can you remember Aaron actually throwing? This happened with Janis and it happened with MVS. The single drag/crossing route I can remember Rodgers actually throwing last year went for a 70+ yard TD against the Raiders. Cobb thrived at this in Dallas. MVS has been open on these on numerous occasions that you can see on even the television broadcast. Early Rodgers had very little issue throwing these routes. Jennings thrived on them. As Rodgers aged, I feel like he's been less likely to throw this route. Correct me if I'm wrong, but hasn't he said something about not wanting to throw this route due to a fear of hits on his receivers? Wasn't the Davante Adams/Danny Trevathan ugly hit something that might have changed this in Aaron? Bottom line is that I think ability is less important than knowledge with Aaron's receivers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Packerraymond Posted March 5, 2020 Share Posted March 5, 2020 1 minute ago, Outpost31 said: I wasn't mostly because of how similarly he played to last season. I know I'm going to sound like a broken record so whatever, but on this specific point I would have been more satisfied with Aaron if he made more aggressive mistakes and didn't look so damn similar to how he played with McCarthy. People who say it was Mike's system really have no ground to stand on anymore. *Getting to the line of scrimmage with less than 10 seconds. *Not getting rid of the ball for 7 seconds. *Way off deep ball that almost looks like he's just not giving them a chance. The problems persisted. The exact. Same. Problems. That's why, in light of turning this back to the discussion of this thread instead of allegedly hijacking the thread, our free agency needs to focus on players who can alleviate Aaron's faults. In light of that, we need less SPEED and dominance and all that and more KNOWLEDGE. Players have been open. Wide open. Wide open in the wrong way does not work with Rodgers. Being less open in the right spot is more important than being more open in the wrong spot. This is why I want veteran receivers over the Anderson types. I feel like Randall Cobb does more for us than someone like Robbie Anderson in light of Aaron's preferences. Only people who don't understand football would have blamed the above 3 things on Mac. Those are Rodgers problems (except the not snapping it until 10 or less seconds, that's fine). The issue with Mac was that we were easy to gameplan for. Stale personnel packages that rarely changed, little to no pre-snap motion to provide clues to what defense we were seeing and to provide misdirection, refusal to rely on the running game since the departure of Lacy, route concepts based mostly on iso matchups. These were all trending in a better direction under LaFleur. I guarantee most of these will change in Dallas' offense this upcoming season. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Packerraymond Posted March 5, 2020 Share Posted March 5, 2020 2 minutes ago, Outpost31 said: I agree with this, but let's be realistic... How many YAC type routes did you see Aaron actually throw? Those drag routes you always see working so well elsewhere... How many of those can you remember Aaron actually throwing? This happened with Janis and it happened with MVS. The single drag/crossing route I can remember Rodgers actually throwing last year went for a 70+ yard TD against the Raiders. Cobb thrived at this in Dallas. MVS has been open on these on numerous occasions that you can see on even the television broadcast. Early Rodgers had very little issue throwing these routes. Jennings thrived on them. As Rodgers aged, I feel like he's been less likely to throw this route. Correct me if I'm wrong, but hasn't he said something about not wanting to throw this route due to a fear of hits on his receivers? Wasn't the Davante Adams/Danny Trevathan ugly hit something that might have changed this in Aaron? Bottom line is that I think ability is less important than knowledge with Aaron's receivers. A drag isn't a great YAC route to begin with unless you're picking guys off in M2M. If you do that, even Marcedes Lewis can get YAC. Bubbles, slants, hitches, RPO type stuff where the ball is out quick. We had a fair amount of quick concept stuff this year, I'd like Rodgers to throw the ball a bit more in the slant game, I think that's the only quick game area where I was disappointed seeing as many double clutches as I did. The rest we utilized pretty often. Adams was the only guy who can really do anything with targets like that (Jones too I guess as a RB). Nothing better to supplement a running game then throwing a bubble and consistently getting 5-10 yards. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MacReady Posted March 5, 2020 Share Posted March 5, 2020 Just now, Packerraymond said: A drag isn't a great YAC route to begin with unless you're picking guys off in M2M. If you do that, even Marcedes Lewis can get YAC. Bubbles, slants, hitches, RPO type stuff where the ball is out quick. We had a fair amount of quick concept stuff this year, I'd like Rodgers to throw the ball a bit more in the slant game, I think that's the only quick game area where I was disappointed seeing as many double clutches as I did. The rest we utilized pretty often. Adams was the only guy who can really do anything with targets like that (Jones too I guess as a RB). Nothing better to supplement a running game then throwing a bubble and consistently getting 5-10 yards. What? By my understanding, this listing is calling a drag/crossing route a beneath route, which is fourth in YAC. https://www.footballoutsiders.com/stat-analysis/2019/2018-dvoa-routes-receivers In fact, the deep ball, screen, out and whatever you want to call it lead the league in YAC. Obviously the fly route is going to have the best YAC because if it works they likely beat their man deep, but all of the routes that are best for YAC are the ones that Aaron seems to not like throwing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Packerraymond Posted March 5, 2020 Share Posted March 5, 2020 16 minutes ago, Outpost31 said: What? By my understanding, this listing is calling a drag/crossing route a beneath route, which is fourth in YAC. https://www.footballoutsiders.com/stat-analysis/2019/2018-dvoa-routes-receivers In fact, the deep ball, screen, out and whatever you want to call it lead the league in YAC. Obviously the fly route is going to have the best YAC because if it works they likely beat their man deep, but all of the routes that are best for YAC are the ones that Aaron seems to not like throwing. Yes you get YAC because you pick off defenders and create space. That's unskilled YAC though. It's made for you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MacReady Posted March 5, 2020 Share Posted March 5, 2020 6 minutes ago, Packerraymond said: Yes you get YAC because you pick off defenders and create space. That's unskilled YAC though. It's made for you. Yeah, so why don’t we make Rodgers take what’s made for him? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Packerraymond Posted March 5, 2020 Share Posted March 5, 2020 12 minutes ago, Outpost31 said: Yeah, so why don’t we make Rodgers take what’s made for him? Do we often run crossers?? Doesn't seem like we do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coachbuns Posted March 5, 2020 Share Posted March 5, 2020 1 hour ago, Outpost31 said: I wasn't mostly because of how similarly he played to last season. I know I'm going to sound like a broken record so whatever, but on this specific point I would have been more satisfied with Aaron if he made more aggressive mistakes and didn't look so damn similar to how he played with McCarthy. People who say it was Mike's system really have no ground to stand on anymore. *Getting to the line of scrimmage with less than 10 seconds. *Not getting rid of the ball for 7 seconds. *Way off deep ball that almost looks like he's just not giving them a chance. The problems persisted. The exact. Same. Problems. That's why, in light of turning this back to the discussion of this thread instead of allegedly hijacking the thread, our free agency needs to focus on players who can alleviate Aaron's faults. In light of that, we need less SPEED and dominance and all that and more KNOWLEDGE. Players have been open. Wide open. Wide open in the wrong way does not work with Rodgers. Being less open in the right spot is more important than being more open in the wrong spot. This is why I want veteran receivers over the Anderson types. I feel like Randall Cobb does more for us than someone like Robbie Anderson in light of Aaron's preferences. Broken record ... yes, as before. That being said, your other points are spot on. Finding somebody out there that knows where to be at the right time is imperative for Rodgers at this point. If they could find a guy or two like that with a touch of speed would help immensely. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Posted March 5, 2020 Share Posted March 5, 2020 2 hours ago, Packerraymond said: The issue with Mac was that we were easy to gameplan for. Stale personnel packages that rarely changed, little to no pre-snap motion to provide clues to what defense we were seeing and to provide misdirection, refusal to rely on the running game since the departure of Lacy, route concepts based mostly on iso matchups. Not to mention a lot of frustrated defensive players who congratulated each other when they got contracts with other teams and played better... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skibrett15 Posted March 6, 2020 Share Posted March 6, 2020 broncos aren't re-signing devontae booker. Would like to bring him in as a 3rd back with real upside. Comes from a really full backfield, has looked promising when given opportunities. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HighCalebR Posted March 6, 2020 Share Posted March 6, 2020 53 minutes ago, skibrett15 said: broncos aren't re-signing devontae booker. Would like to bring him in as a 3rd back with real upside. Comes from a really full backfield, has looked promising when given opportunities. He had 2 years to show he was anything before Freeman and Linsey got to town. He's just not a good pro. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norm Posted March 6, 2020 Share Posted March 6, 2020 49 minutes ago, HighCalebR said: He had 2 years to show he was anything before Freeman and Linsey got to town. He's just not a good pro. Not like it would cost anything though Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HighCalebR Posted March 6, 2020 Share Posted March 6, 2020 26 minutes ago, Norm said: Not like it would cost anything though Rather just role with DW and some other young bro they wanna bring in. Booker will be 28 this year and hasnt exactly shown to he a reliable rock toter. Broncos drafted more young guys because he couldnt keep it in his hands when given opportunity. Its not like Booker is a phenomenal athlete either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skibrett15 Posted March 6, 2020 Share Posted March 6, 2020 4 minutes ago, HighCalebR said: Rather just role with DW and some other young bro they wanna bring in. Booker will be 28 this year and hasnt exactly shown to he a reliable rock toter. Broncos drafted more young guys because he couldnt keep it in his hands when given opportunity. Its not like Booker is a phenomenal athlete either. good pass catcher, always been in a logjam at his position, coming in as a 2nd/3rd back. better rock toter than jamaal williams, better athlete than jamaal williams, tbd pass blocker don't know much about that. give me more guys who can play ball right away. take some uncertainty out of the depth on the team. DW is a big ? so let him compete with a known quantity and probably end up without a job. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HighCalebR Posted March 6, 2020 Share Posted March 6, 2020 (edited) 9 minutes ago, skibrett15 said: good pass catcher, always been in a logjam at his position, coming in as a 2nd/3rd back. better rock toter than jamaal williams, better athlete than jamaal williams, tbd pass blocker don't know much about that. give me more guys who can play ball right away. take some uncertainty out of the depth on the team. DW is a big ? so let him compete with a known quantity and probably end up without a job. Hes got a fumble rate of like 1 every 30 carries. Edited March 6, 2020 by HighCalebR Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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