2017-18 NCAAB Thread

[Kmart128]

1 hour ago, 1ForTheThumb said:

Maybe the NCAA can finally stop pretending like this hasn't been happening all along and pay the players what they deserve. 

I mean they are pretty much being paid 20k-50k a year for education, housing, food and travel. They're going to school for free. 

If the NCAA does decide to pay em which I hope not then they need to get rid of scholarships so and have them pay for their college.

Actually what I thought was a good idea is that you pay the players 100,000 a year but you only get the money after you graduate. Gives incentives to continue to play college ball. You show a degree to NCAA then you get paid 400,000 and if you enter draft early then you forfeit the money and don't earn a degree.

[Sllim Pickens]

50 minutes ago, marshawn lynch said:

I mean they are pretty much being paid 20k-50k a year for education, housing, food and travel. They're going to school for free. 

If the NCAA does decide to pay em which I hope not then they need to get rid of scholarships so and have them pay for their college.

Actually what I thought was a good idea is that you pay the players 100,000 a year but you only get the money after you graduate. Gives incentives to continue to play college ball. You show a degree to NCAA then you get paid 400,000 and if you enter draft early then you forfeit the money and don't earn a degree.

That sounds about like the same indentured servant system they have now. And it will not prevent the top kids from getting paid, it will probably make it worse given the ywould want more than the bum that rarely plays is making.  

Aside from that, the scholarship/free college is nothing compared to what they bring the school and the number of hours they have to work in a year.  When someone is good enough to play in the NBA and make millions, its stupid to force them to go to college for a year for nothing.  The best solution is IMO to switch to the baseball rules where you can go pro right out of high school but if you sign you have to stay for three years.  Then those who need to get paid will get paid, those who aren't quite that elite can go refine their skills.  Then, while in college, if the school uses their likeness to make money like selling jersey's with their number on it, hold that money in a trust until they graduate or just let them have it then, but give them something. 

[ramssuperbowl99]

2 minutes ago, Sllim Pickens said:

Then, while in college, if the school uses their likeness to make money like selling jersey's with their number on it, hold that money in a trust until they graduate or just let them have it then, but give them something. 

Why does it have to be in a trust or something that they can't access until they leave?

I'm not necessarily even directing this directly at you. Every time this comes up, that's always the first response from people who don't want to pay players, and I never understand it. They're getting paid, but somehow it's important that they are still super cash poor while they're in school?

[1ForTheThumb]

1 hour ago, marshawn lynch said:

I mean they are pretty much being paid 20k-50k a year for education, housing, food and travel. They're going to school for free. 

If the NCAA does decide to pay em which I hope not then they need to get rid of scholarships so and have them pay for their college.

Actually what I thought was a good idea is that you pay the players 100,000 a year but you only get the money after you graduate. Gives incentives to continue to play college ball. You show a degree to NCAA then you get paid 400,000 and if you enter draft early then you forfeit the money and don't earn a degree.

They also can't work, earn money off their likeness and bring in waaaaay more money to the school than their scholarship is worth.

[Sllim Pickens]

1 hour ago, ramssuperbowl99 said:

Why does it have to be in a trust or something that they can't access until they leave?

I'm not necessarily even directing this directly at you. Every time this comes up, that's always the first response from people who don't want to pay players, and I never understand it. They're getting paid, but somehow it's important that they are still super cash poor while they're in school?

I said put it in a trust or just let them have it.  One way will still let the NCAA think they are amateurs the other helps them immediately.  The tough part is in the disparity in pay.  You will likely have 1 or 2 players on each team making large amounts while others not so much.  Will likely cause a lot of tension hence why I think putting it in a trust until they are older, more responsible, and trying to get started in real life makes sense, especially if they don't have a pro career to fall back on.  

I don't want college sports to turn into the NBA and have kids go to the highest bidder, so I hope whatever they do they have structure and make everyone able to pay the same amount.  I think its a tricky situation because at other than the few elite schools, there is likely only 1 or 2 kids at any school that have NBA potential and are worth that much.  Also given the other sports don't make money so are the basketball and football players the only ones who get paid?  There is not an easy solution, but I hope changes are made. 

[ramssuperbowl99]

8 minutes ago, Sllim Pickens said:

I said put it in a trust or just let them have it.  One way will still let the NCAA think they are amateurs the other helps them immediately.  The tough part is in the disparity in pay.  You will likely have 1 or 2 players on each team making large amounts while others not so much.  Will likely cause a lot of tension hence why I think putting it in a trust until they are older, more responsible, and trying to get started in real life makes sense, especially if they don't have a pro career to fall back on.  

I don't want college sports to turn into the NBA and have kids go to the highest bidder, so I hope whatever they do they have structure and make everyone able to pay the same amount.  I think its a tricky situation because at other than the few elite schools, there is likely only 1 or 2 kids at any school that have NBA potential and are worth that much.  Also given the other sports don't make money so are the basketball and football players the only ones who get paid?  There is not an easy solution, but I hope changes are made. 

I know and I was half responding to you, half responding in general.

Who knows how a system that pays players would look. Realistically, it's complicated and we'd screw it up a few times along the way before finding something equitable. The only part of your statement I disagree with is this:

8 minutes ago, Sllim Pickens said:

Will likely cause a lot of tension hence why I think putting it in a trust until they are older, more responsible, and trying to get started in real life makes sense, especially if they don't have a pro career to fall back on.  

They're (almost always) legal adults. They could commit a crime and go to jail for the rest of their life. They can vote. They can join the army. By all of the established standards we have for 18 years olds, getting 6 or even 7 figures isn't the most reckless thing we let them do.

And we let teenage athletes get huge bonuses all the time. Mickey Moniak got $6-7M from the Phillies at 18. It was fine. Bryce Harper got $10M in a previous CBA at 17. Every year, the MLB draft makes somewhere around 30 HS kids millionaires. No one ever talks about how that should be going in a trust.

 

Cards on the table, I suspect that for a lot of people, the origin of the "put it in a trust" system is that they just don't want to pay players, and this way they stay poor in school.

[11sanchez11]

2 hours ago, Sllim Pickens said:

The best solution is IMO to switch to the baseball rules where you can go pro right out of high school but if you sign you have to stay for three years.

I think that is way worse than the one and done rule. So Trae Young is going to have to play two more years of college instead of getting drafted top 8 this year because people didn't know how good he was? There is a bunch of players like this every year. (Young, Zhaire Smith, Daniel Gafford, Troy Brown, Lonnie Walker, Shai-Gilgeous -Alexander, etc. are all dudes this year who no one would expect to go the NBA from high school but are now all projected 1st round picks). Also the one and done rule is an NBA rule, NCAA has nothing to do with it.

I think it is easy for people to say pay the players because we don't know the finances involved but I know Universities cut athletic and education programs all the time. Like UA doesn't even have a wrestling team, they cut the education field I was majoring in while I was attending, GCU just recently cut wrestling and lacrosse, etc. I don't think they make these decisions because they are rolling in cash. 

Should Alex Barcello get paid as much as Deandre Ayton? What about the softball team? etc. Should regular students that help make the Universities money also get paid? It might be crippling to try to pay people as opposed to just getting scholarships. I also think it is a possibility that the majority of students and athletes aren't worth more than a scholarship to the University. Should they have the ability to not pay them if they aren't worth it to the University? 

Then do small schools have to cut all athletics because they aren't profitable and can't afford to pay their players? 

[Texansfan713]

OH wow.  I thought for sure we would be unranked again after losing to Memphis.  I guess the voters liked the "beat down" we gave ECU.  LOL

[Kmart128]

2 hours ago, Sllim Pickens said:

That sounds about like the same indentured servant system they have now. And it will not prevent the top kids from getting paid, it will probably make it worse given the ywould want more than the bum that rarely plays is making.  

Aside from that, the scholarship/free college is nothing compared to what they bring the school and the number of hours they have to work in a year.  When someone is good enough to play in the NBA and make millions, its stupid to force them to go to college for a year for nothing.  The best solution is IMO to switch to the baseball rules where you can go pro right out of high school but if you sign you have to stay for three years.  Then those who need to get paid will get paid, those who aren't quite that elite can go refine their skills.  Then, while in college, if the school uses their likeness to make money like selling jersey's with their number on it, hold that money in a trust until they graduate or just let them have it then, but give them something. 

Well it was just a rough idea. Obviously the money isn't going to be exact but I like the idea of giving them money but only when they graduate. When you enter into NBA draft early then all money is forfeited. Maybe not everyone get a 100,000. Make if you average 10 or less minutes on a year then you get 25,000 for the season. Between 10-20 make 50,000, between 20 and 30 minutes make 75,000. And above 30 would make 100,000. Rack up the money based on playing time and only give it to them if they earn a degree

Not only would that allow players to stay longer but recuits are gonna not all go to one team and be more evenly distributed due to needing playing time to make more money.

I think it's a nice balance NCAA wants kids to stay longer, and kids want to get paid. This would be a bipartisan deal for the NCAA and the players

[Sllim Pickens]

2 hours ago, ramssuperbowl99 said:

I know and I was half responding to you, half responding in general.

Who knows how a system that pays players would look. Realistically, it's complicated and we'd screw it up a few times along the way before finding something equitable. The only part of your statement I disagree with is this:

They're (almost always) legal adults. They could commit a crime and go to jail for the rest of their life. They can vote. They can join the army. By all of the established standards we have for 18 years olds, getting 6 or even 7 figures isn't the most reckless thing we let them do.

And we let teenage athletes get huge bonuses all the time. Mickey Moniak got $6-7M from the Phillies at 18. It was fine. Bryce Harper got $10M in a previous CBA at 17. Every year, the MLB draft makes somewhere around 30 HS kids millionaires. No one ever talks about how that should be going in a trust.

 

Cards on the table, I suspect that for a lot of people, the origin of the "put it in a trust" system is that they just don't want to pay players, and this way they stay poor in school.

Yes, HS kids are made millionaires often, however they then have the funds to hire the right people to do the right thing with their money.  College athletes do get quite a bit as far as food, housing, clothes etc.  They don't need to spend a ton of money while in college so why not give them a strong start once they leave college.  Maybe its just because I feel like all people would be like me in college and blow any extra cash on booze, pizzas and random stuff you don't need and wish they would have been smarter about it after the fact.  But that's just me.   

I am all for paying players, especially those who are the faces of a team and they use their number or image to sell jerseys or programs etc.  I think the trust is a decent way to please both sides.  Maybe boost the stipend allowance that schools can give kids in the mean time to something more livable.

[ramssuperbowl99]

7 minutes ago, Sllim Pickens said:

Yes, HS kids are made millionaires often, however they then have the funds to hire the right people to do the right thing with their money.  College athletes do get quite a bit as far as food, housing, clothes etc.  They don't need to spend a ton of money while in college so why not give them a strong start once they leave college.  Maybe its just because I feel like all people would be like me in college and blow any extra cash on booze, pizzas and random stuff you don't need and wish they would have been smarter about it after the fact.  But that's just me.   

Why do we need to babysit these players at an institutional level? They're adults. They can manage their money.

[MWil23]

Just get rid of scholarships altogether and pay them/sign them. They owe the university whatever they would for schooling/tuition, books, lodging, food, etc. and however long they stay at the university as long as they're eligible.

Also, there goes Title IX (although apparently Baylor and MSU never got the memo that they had to comply anyway to be honest) and any non-money sport.

[ramssuperbowl99]

9 minutes ago, MWil23 said:

Just get rid of scholarships altogether and pay them/sign them. They owe the university whatever they would for schooling/tuition, books, lodging, food, etc. and however long they stay at the university as long as they're eligible.

Also, there goes Title IX (although apparently Baylor and MSU never got the memo that they had to comply anyway to be honest) and any non-money sport.

That's worse for both parties. 

It costs the college virtually nothing to include those players in classes and substantially less than the list price of room and board to house them. So it would be more expensive for the college, and the players would have to pay tax on the money instead of getting a discounted tuition tax free (like what happens with grad students, and grad students get stipends on top of that too).

[Sllim Pickens]

20 minutes ago, ramssuperbowl99 said:

Why do we need to babysit these players at an institutional level? They're adults. They can manage their money.

You call it babysitting, I call it helping out those ho may come from backgrounds that are not as fiscally responsible.  Its called helping young adults make the transition to being a true adult.  I get that legally these kids are adults but I know mentally I wasn't an adult until about 5 years ago when I hit 30. 

Either way, its an idea of a way to improve on the current system.  I do still think the stipends need to be increased, I think people should be able to make money off their name if thy are able to such as selling autographs/shirts/championship rings, shoe deals etc.  But that's not on the school to provide. 

[DalCowboyzRule]

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