Broncofan Posted December 30, 2019 Share Posted December 30, 2019 (edited) 4 minutes ago, diamondbull424 said: Disagree. I think while the Dolphins got rid of players, they seemed to identify which players didn’t have the mentality to win and got rid of those guys... Stills was busy criticizing the team owner. Minkah was making excuses Via his mother and overall not used to losing, sure you could argue that he wasn’t being properly utilizes, but his effort was also noticeably poor with the Dolphins. He seemed to already be quitting on the team after only a few weeks of losing. Tunsil was probably just a deal that you cannot refuse. Either way, I feel that the Miami moves weren’t so much about tanking and more so about getting players within Miami that were excited to be there and playing football. Dude, they got 1st rounders for Minkah & Tunsil. That wasn't about culture-setting. Stills, sure, zero argument there. Drake certainly wasn't about culture-setting, he was never a problem child with them. He just wasn't going to sign back with them (and frankly, after they played Ballage in a timeshare with him, who can blame him lol). It fits your narrative to think of it as culture move first & foremost - but the reality is MIA was selling off every piece they could that wasn't going to help beyond 2020 - except for Minkah & Tunsil, where they could flip them for 1sts, and get guys in their cheap rookie years starting at year 1. It's the very definition of tanking. Culture might have been a bonus - but to suggest Tunsil & Minkah were traded solely for culture, it's revisionist. It just so happens the guys they left behind were far, far better than CLE's were in 2017. Edited December 30, 2019 by Broncofan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
diamondbull424 Posted December 30, 2019 Share Posted December 30, 2019 (edited) 10 minutes ago, Broncofan said: Dude, they got 1st rounders for Minkah & Tunsil. That wasn't about culture-setting. Stills, sure, zero argument there. Drake certainly wasn't about culture-setting, he was never a problem child with them. He just wasn't going to sign back with them (and frankly, after they played Ballage in a timeshare with him, who can blame him lol). It fits your narrative to think of it as culture move first & foremost - but the reality is MIA was selling off every piece they could that wasn't going to help beyond 2020 - except for Minkah & Tunsil, where they could flip them for 1sts, and get guys in their cheap rookie years starting at year 1. It's the very definition of tanking. Culture might have been a bonus - but to suggest Tunsil & Minkah were traded solely for culture, it's revisionist. It just so happens the guys they left behind were far, far better than CLE's were in 2017. Revisionist means that I’m using current knowledge to rewrite the narrative. Which is impossible since I’m rehashing the same reasons as to why I predicted this team would finish with 3-4 wins this season. What’s more, you misread what I wrote in the first place, I literally said Tunsil was about the value package received. They were offered a deal they couldn’t refuse and they took it. But yeah getting rid of Minkah was definitely a culture move. He wasn’t putting forth maximum effort because he didn’t see the team going anywhere. He and his mom were complaining about how he wasn’t being properly utilized. Whether he was being mis-utilized or not, that’s not a conversation you have with the media, you have it internally. A coaching job like what Flores put together would have never worked if you have locker room dissenters like Minkah questioning his every move with regards to where he’s putting players on the field. So absolutely trading Minkah was for the locker room health, otherwise you don’t get rid of a player with All Pro potential at the safety position. It was clear then and I’m simply rehashing now the things that I said back then. Just because YOUR past self didn’t envision what they were doing in the same manner, lets not lump my vision in with yours. Edited December 30, 2019 by diamondbull424 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Broncofan Posted December 30, 2019 Share Posted December 30, 2019 (edited) 2 minutes ago, diamondbull424 said: Revisionist means that I’m using current knowledge to rewrite the narrative. I’m not revisiting this because this is the same reason as to why I predicted this team would finish with 3-4 wins this season. What’s more, you misread what I wrote in the first place, I literally said Tunsil was about the value package received. They were offered a deal they couldn’t refuse and they took it. But yeah getting rid of Minkah was definitely a culture move. He wasn’t putting forth maximum effort because he didn’t see the team going anywhere. He and his mom were complaining about how he wasn’t being properly utilized. Whether he was being mis-utilized or not, that’s not a conversation you have with the media, you have it internally. A coaching job like what Flores put together would have never worked if you have locker room dissenters like Minkah questioning his every move with regards to where he’s putting players on the field. So absolutely trading Minkah was for the locker room health, otherwise you don’t get rid of a player with All Pro potential at the safety position. It was clear then and I’m simply rehashing now the things that I said back then. So no, its not revisionist to rehash things I mentioned months ago. Here's where we disagree and probably will just agree to disagree - if it was a culture move for the reasons you cite, Minkah would have been gone before the season started. MIA wanted to rebuild and go young again - and got PIT to bite on a 1st rounder. If it was primarily for culture, you get what you can in the offseason. That's where we don't agree on the primary purpose. It's OK, we don't have to agree lol. Edited December 30, 2019 by Broncofan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
diamondbull424 Posted December 30, 2019 Share Posted December 30, 2019 1 minute ago, Broncofan said: Here's where we disagree and probably will just agree to disagree - if it was a culture move for the reasons you cite, Minkah would have been gone before the season started. MIA wanted to rebuild and go young again - and got PIT to bite on a 1st rounder. If it was primarily for culture, you get what you can in the offseason. That's where we don't agree on the primary purpose. It's OK, we don't have to agree lol. That doesn’t make sense, why would they get rid of him in the offseason when he wasn’t the same cancer. He closed out last season very well and they knew he had talent. Even if he might not have been the ideal fit, you work with talent. That said, they tried working with Minkah and after everyone in the media started to talk about how bad the Dolphins were... Minkah felt like the type of player that had to defend himself. He wasn’t all world bad like the rest of the team... he was just being misutilized by his coaches. I said it then that the Dolphins had a brutal schedule to start the season that made them look worse than what they were. But when you have a young player that you would hope would be the building block and commander of your unit... you would hope that he is a BELIEVER and the ultimate team player. Similar to a guy like Jamal Adams on the Jets. When you have a guy like Minkah trying to distance his poor play from the team and create excuses and go about demanding a trade as a rookie, you move on for the sanity of your locker room. They didn’t ACTIVELY want to move him because of his talent, but they were willing to move him because of the negative cultural fit. They weren’t just looking to take what they could get, they established that they wouldn’t deal him for anything less than a 1st round pick and that’s what they dealt him for. But teams don’t trade All Pro talented players unless its not the correct fit. The breakup between Minkah and the Dolphins was mutual, neither was the correct fit for one another. But yeah, I suppose we’ll have to agree to disagree on the concept of tanking being the best way to build your squad. Tanking is a mentality of purposely trying to be bad, that was not what the Dolphins wanted to do, they just wanted players to believe in the squad. After overachieving this season, its likely their future draft picks will find an easier time believing in the team vision because of what’s already started to be established. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hunter2_1 Posted December 30, 2019 Share Posted December 30, 2019 He was AWESOME against us. This was (statistically) the stingiest pass D in the league, and he literally looked like peak Manning. Whatever he wanted to do, it was mostly there for him and he done it. No answer to him. Fair play to the prck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FinSting Posted December 30, 2019 Share Posted December 30, 2019 1 hour ago, diamondbull424 said: Either way, I feel that the Miami moves weren’t so much about tanking and more so about getting players within Miami that were excited to be there and playing football. Agree on that, as it's normal for a new coach to come in and clean house with a massive roster churn. Not a tank when you are looking for players that fit the new system and mindset. The big trade happened right before the first game meaning the locker room had plenty of strangers that had barely practiced together just as the Ravens and Patriots were flying to Miami for two ridiculous blowout wins. Quite fond of Flores after this season, having hope is fun. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elky Posted December 30, 2019 Share Posted December 30, 2019 NE lost more than Miami won. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DoleINGout Posted December 30, 2019 Share Posted December 30, 2019 4 hours ago, Broncofan said: I'm a huge Darnold believer - but no way he makes a diff vs. CLE/NE/PHI with NYJ's OL issues early in-season (remember Garrett & co. terrorized them all night long, same for NE/PHI). It probably kept him healthy for longer. Easy to speculate when we'll never know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChazStandard Posted December 30, 2019 Share Posted December 30, 2019 Remember when the AFCE was the worst division ever and was going to gift the Pats a first round bye? Only the the NFCW finished with more wins this year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danger Posted December 30, 2019 Share Posted December 30, 2019 5 hours ago, diamondbull424 said: But it was clear watching that team fight that they were a much better team than their record had indicated, they simply needed to time to gel with all the additions they brought on post- preseason. No. It really wasn't at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
diamondbull424 Posted December 30, 2019 Share Posted December 30, 2019 56 minutes ago, Danger said: In my eyes, No, It really wasn't clear at all. FIFY. For me it was clear with how Flores never showed quit. Down by multiple scores he was calling TOs against Baltimore so his defense could be out there for more snaps to practice in live game action. With each game the players began to respond, but especially after the bye week they were fighting. Flores never looked overwhelmed. His players might’ve been overwhelmed by talent but the bigger issue was guys out of position. Things that could be fixed. Compound a coach that was showing so much dogged fight with issues that can be coached up (especially with so much influx of new players that explains them being out of position) and that was an obvious recipe for legit improvements. Especially considering Fitzmagic at QB you knew they could find a way to fall into a few crazy wins as long as Flores could get that defense to buy in and the OL could improve to a capable level of pass protection... why also had to do with getting guys to gel. Flores was able to do that week by week and that’s what made all the difference. But it was clear that the opportunities (SWOT analysis) were in place from the onset. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danger Posted December 30, 2019 Share Posted December 30, 2019 4 minutes ago, diamondbull424 said: FIFY Courtesy of of @SBLIII No early in the season they absolutely were historically bad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SBLIII Posted December 30, 2019 Share Posted December 30, 2019 Just now, Danger said: Courtesy of of @SBLIII No early in the season they absolutely were historically bad. Flores is very, very good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danger Posted December 30, 2019 Share Posted December 30, 2019 But hats off to Flores, he corrected course of a ship missing half of it's planks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danger Posted December 30, 2019 Share Posted December 30, 2019 They flipped some switch Week 8 and became a respectable team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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