swede700 Posted December 31, 2019 Share Posted December 31, 2019 (edited) 15 minutes ago, Here'sJim said: If you watched Freddy Kitchens coach, if you read reports about how he organized himself, if you watched the behavior of the players around him... it's kind of crazy to want him back. People smarter than him asked him to stick to what he did best and he refused. It was time to move on. Oh, I certainly didn't, but I think when you give a guy a chance, you need to give him more than one year. You have to see if he's smart enough to make the adjustments on his own. From my own experience, we had Mike Tice, who certainly wasn't prepared for the job when he took it over, but he still managed to eke out a halfway decent record...it was only after 4 years it was clear that they had to take another direction. Kitchens was put in a no-win situation, especially when he was saddled with some of the characters in the room...and I imagine that Dorsey was taking that into account when he stated that he wanted to bring him back...he wanted to give him that chance to improve. FWIW, I didn't feel that he ever should have been hired in the first place, because he wasn't prepared for the job, but once that decision was made, you have to stick with it for more time than he was given. No one has any chance with that short of a leash. Edited December 31, 2019 by swede700 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rod Johnson Posted December 31, 2019 Share Posted December 31, 2019 14 minutes ago, FourThreeMafia said: I didnt think Kitchens was a good hire to begin with, but you can just keep changing coaches. Eventually, you have to give one time, even if they initially disappoint. Well we did give Hue Jackson 40 games and he managed to win 3 of them. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Here'sJim Posted December 31, 2019 Share Posted December 31, 2019 (edited) 15 minutes ago, swede700 said: Oh, I certainly didn't, but I think when you give a guy a chance, you need to give him more than one year. You have to see if he's smart enough to make the adjustments on his own. From my own experience, we had Mike Tice, who certainly wasn't prepared for the job when he took it over, but he still managed to eke out a halfway decent record...it was only after 4 years it was clear that they had to take another direction. Kitchens was put in a no-win situation, especially when he was saddled with some of the characters in the room...and I imagine that Dorsey was taking that into account when he stated that he wanted to bring him back...he wanted to give him that chance to improve. FWIW, I didn't feel that he ever should have been hired in the first place, because he wasn't prepared for the job, but once that decision was made, you have to stick with it for more time than he was given. No one has any chance with that short of a leash. I would recommend that you read some of the leaks that have been released. It just wasn't going to work long term. John Dorsey had no good defense to maintain this hire. Here is a little bit of a taste: Edited December 31, 2019 by Here'sJim 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LETSGOBROWNIES Posted December 31, 2019 Share Posted December 31, 2019 23 minutes ago, FourThreeMafia said: I didnt think Kitchens was a good hire to begin with, but you can just keep changing coaches. Eventually, you have to give one time, even if they initially disappoint. I agree 100%, and typically point to your squad as the example tbh, but he wasn’t the guy. I loved the hire because of what he did with Baker last year, but he was out of his depth immensely. Dorsey is a quality talent evaluator, but he’s a power hungry dude who wants yes men. I loved Sashi and the 5 year plan, and hope they let DePo hire a smart, organized, professional coach and pair him with a similar GM and lock them up for 5 years. The turnover HAS to stop, but you also need competent people who can play well with others running the show. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AFlaccoSeagulls Posted January 1, 2020 Share Posted January 1, 2020 Man, I do kind of feel for Browns fans. Just when you thought you were on the cusp of something happening, the team reverts right back into full dysfunction. It's easy to say "Okay just get the right guys and then we're fine", but at this point who would want to coach in Cleveland? Matt Rhule actually declined an interview with them. Good coaches know at this point to stay away from Cleveland because you are one bad season away from looking for another job. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MWil23 Posted January 1, 2020 Share Posted January 1, 2020 15 minutes ago, AFlaccoSeagulls said: Man, I do kind of feel for Browns fans. Just when you thought you were on the cusp of something happening, the team reverts right back into full dysfunction. It's easy to say "Okay just get the right guys and then we're fine", but at this point who would want to coach in Cleveland? Matt Rhule actually declined an interview with them. Good coaches know at this point to stay away from Cleveland because you are one bad season away from looking for another job. I have a theory that every year Dan Snyder sends us a Christmas card and cash as a "Thank you for covering for my ineptitude; I'm not sure how I'm flying under the radar nationally" gift. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bonanza23 Posted January 1, 2020 Share Posted January 1, 2020 13 minutes ago, AFlaccoSeagulls said: Man, I do kind of feel for Browns fans. Just when you thought you were on the cusp of something happening, the team reverts right back into full dysfunction. It's easy to say "Okay just get the right guys and then we're fine", but at this point who would want to coach in Cleveland? Matt Rhule actually declined an interview with them. Good coaches know at this point to stay away from Cleveland because you are one bad season away from looking for another job. Matt Rhule declined because he wants a perfect fit. Why leave his nice college job for anything less? I believe he’s from NY and wants to go there. If I remember correctly. Besides candidates turn down interviews all the time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BayRaider Posted January 1, 2020 Share Posted January 1, 2020 Why fire Dorsey? He made a couple mistakes this year but still helped steer things in the right direction. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirill Posted January 1, 2020 Share Posted January 1, 2020 3 minutes ago, BayRaider said: Why fire Dorsey? He made a couple mistakes this year but still helped steer things in the right direction. I bet they tried to change the organizational structure to something where the GM and coach both report separately to the owner or something, and he was like nope, not what I agreed to. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AFlaccoSeagulls Posted January 1, 2020 Share Posted January 1, 2020 4 minutes ago, MWil23 said: I have a theory that every year Dan Snyder sends us a Christmas card and cash as a "Thank you for covering for my ineptitude; I'm not sure how I'm flying under the radar nationally" gift. Honestly, makes sense to me. Dan Snyder only receives media attention at the end of the year when he finally fires a coach. 4 minutes ago, Bonanza23 said: Matt Rhule declined because he wants a perfect fit. Why leave his nice college job for anything less? I believe he’s from NY and wants to go there. If I remember correctly. Besides candidates turn down interviews all the time. And you don't think it's odd that he didn't view Cleveland as a perfect fit, despite having a VERY talented offense and defense AND potential franchise QB? They're turning down interviews because nobody wants to gamble their coaching career on a toxic environment.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rod Johnson Posted January 1, 2020 Share Posted January 1, 2020 (edited) 16 minutes ago, Kirill said: I bet they tried to change the organizational structure to something where the GM and coach both report separately to the owner or something, and he was like nope, not what I agreed to. Well we certainly weren't going to let him choose his coach another time around. If Dorsey drove the decision to promote Freddie, it was selfish and stupid. An egregious error worthy of being fired for. I have never seen a coach so blatantly incompetent in my life. Edited January 1, 2020 by Rod Johnson Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LETSGOBROWNIES Posted January 1, 2020 Share Posted January 1, 2020 24 minutes ago, BayRaider said: Why fire Dorsey? He made a couple mistakes this year but still helped steer things in the right direction. I mean, he hired Kitchens, according to reports wanted to keep him, spent a whole lot of money and generally whiffed in FA. Baker, Ward and Chubb in ‘18 was cool, but not exactly revolutionary. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LETSGOBROWNIES Posted January 1, 2020 Share Posted January 1, 2020 18 minutes ago, AFlaccoSeagulls said: Honestly, makes sense to me. Dan Snyder only receives media attention at the end of the year when he finally fires a coach. And you don't think it's odd that he didn't view Cleveland as a perfect fit, despite having a VERY talented offense and defense AND potential franchise QB? They're turning down interviews because nobody wants to gamble their coaching career on a toxic environment.... I mean, do you blame him? I think Cleveland could be a good job ( I’m not exactly unbiased) but if I had reservations I’d tap out quick. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bonanza23 Posted January 1, 2020 Share Posted January 1, 2020 30 minutes ago, AFlaccoSeagulls said: Honestly, makes sense to me. Dan Snyder only receives media attention at the end of the year when he finally fires a coach. And you don't think it's odd that he didn't view Cleveland as a perfect fit, despite having a VERY talented offense and defense AND potential franchise QB? They're turning down interviews because nobody wants to gamble their coaching career on a toxic environment.... No, his perfect fit is living in NY where he’s from. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirill Posted January 1, 2020 Share Posted January 1, 2020 19 minutes ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said: I mean, he hired Kitchens, according to reports wanted to keep him, spent a whole lot of money and generally whiffed in FA. Baker, Ward and Chubb in ‘18 was cool, but not exactly revolutionary. sounds like Dorsey in KC. I'd still like to see him get a job somewhere else though. He's really good at finding talent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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