Moving On To 2020/2021.

[JDBrocks]

4 minutes ago, vikingsrule said:

There are very few special RBs that deserve long term deals and significant commitment, even then, it’s a risk. Cook doesn’t have a special or unique skill set, he’s a good player but comes with huge injury risk. He also fell off significantly at the end of the year. Blaming OL or injuries for his fall off doesn’t excuse him of this relative to if he’s worth being paid as what will likely now be top 3 RB money.

The only RB I would pay in the league right now is Christian McCaffrey, and even then I would be hesitant because of his usage.

[swede700]

6 minutes ago, JDBrocks said:

Why are you talking about DTs, QBs, and WRs?

The data supports the statement. Every team paying a big money running back has come to regret it. Until the league changes philosophy and rules, it just doesn’t make sense.

pretty hilarious to see CJ Anderson come off of the street overweight and keep Todd Gurley on the bench on the way to the super bowl, right?

Well, to be fair, most of the teams that paid big money to a RB were going to be terrible anyway, regardless of the RB.  And I will continue to argue that the Vikings had no qualms or regretted paying Adrian the money they did.  I think it's more about being responsible in how you pay a RB than just the idea of paying them period.  The Rams and the Cardinals were utterly irresponsible in how they paid Gurley and Johnson, not the fact that they paid them period.

I know people continue to point out examples where other teams have just cycled through various lesser-paid RBs and still been successful...that's all fine and dandy.  But, I imagine if you asked most of the coaches, they would tell you that they would like to have an elite-skilled RB at the top of their depth chart, because it would make it so much easier than having to mix and match a plethora of RBs to get the same production.

As @vikingsrule stated, you can certainly question whether Cook is an "elite" RB and is deserving to get paid, but I'm not in the camp of saying a RB should never be paid.  

 

 

[gopherwrestler]

19 hours ago, babababa said:

He doesn't need to be #4 in the league if you have a reliable back-up like Mattison. 

Then why would you pay him top 5 RB money which he will probably command? You’d be better off just pairing another young RB out of college with Mattison.

and of course they will comment on his injury history, look at his other two years. He almost made it one season without missing a game, before that, he only could make it a couple games. 

[Heimdallr]

Cook is a great player, but in my opinion the opportunity cost of that much salary tied up outweighs the incremental production you will get.

[babababa]

30 minutes ago, vikingsrule said:

There are very few special RBs that deserve long term deals and significant commitment, even then, it’s a risk. Cook doesn’t have a special or unique skill set, he’s a good player but comes with huge injury risk. He also fell off significantly at the end of the year. Blaming OL or injuries for his fall off doesn’t excuse him of this relative to if he’s worth being paid as what will likely now be top 3 RB money.

Cook never said he wanted top-3 money. He's being valued in the top-10 not top-3. He's being valued at 10 Mil right behind Aaron Jones at 11 Mil. Christian McCaffrey is at 15 Mil right now. If he had continued his mid-year pace he would have been on track for McCaffrey money. Nobody knows what Cook will be asking for.

Whether he fell off at the tail end of the year from his torrid pace is irrelevant. So because he didn't keep pace with McCaffrey he isn't worth resigning? He was #7 in the league in yards from scrimmage for the entire season. He's a dual threat back who is also capable of carrying a heavy workload as evidenced by being #4 in the league in carries. Raheem Mostert and Mattison ran the ball half as much. While it's nice having guys who can come in and spell workhorse backs, they are asked to do half as much -- taking half the amount of hits. 

He doesn't have to have a unique or special skill set to get a second contract so long as he's great at what he does all around -- which he is. 

Just eliminate the position all together if there's no incentive. Good Running backs won't bother coming here.

[babababa]

16 minutes ago, gopherwrestler said:

Then why would you pay him top 5 RB money which he will probably command? You’d be better off just pairing another young RB out of college with Mattison.

and of course they will comment on his injury history, look at his other two years. He almost made it one season without missing a game, before that, he only could make it a couple games. 

Mattison ran the ball 100 times last year. Dalvin ran the ball 250. If Mattison ran the ball that many times he might get dinged up too. Dinged up -- not injured. 

The league is about respect. You ask that much out of a guy and he performs at a high level -- you pay him what he's worth. If you don't the next rookie in won't expect a second contract. If I was that rookie I wouldn't want to run the ball more than 10 times per game and would begrudgingly do anything more than I had to. That's not a bad attitude -- that's called you get what you pay for. I might even fake an injury or two if I thought it could prolong my longevity until I could get out of that crappy organization that viewed me as expendable from the get-go. 

[babababa]

Running Backs are looking at getting a separate union and I think it's high time that happens. Everyone has undervalued them. No other position is asked so much and gets paid so little. It's completely unfair.

What happened to the respect for the guys that have to get destroyed 15-20 times per game by linemen and linebackers.

Just Insane. 

[Heimdallr]

5 minutes ago, babababa said:

Running Backs are looking at getting a separate union and I think it's high time that happens. Everyone has undervalued them. No other position is asked so much and gets paid so little. It's completely unfair.

What happened to the respect for the guys that have to get destroyed 15-20 times per game by linemen and linebackers.

Just Insane. 

Same thing that has happened to every other working class job over the last 50 years.

[gopherwrestler]

14 minutes ago, babababa said:

Cook never said he wanted top-3 money. He's being valued in the top-10 not top-3. He's being valued at 10 Mil right behind Aaron Jones at 11 Mil. Christian McCaffrey is at 15 Mil right now. If he had continued his mid-year pace he would have been on track for McCaffrey money. Nobody knows what Cook will be asking for.

So because he didn't keep pace with McCaffrey he isn't worth resigning? 

Just eliminate the position all together if there's no incentive. Good Running backs won't bother coming here.

Cook never said that? How do you know he never said that? Nobody knows what he’s asking for, is correct. Zac Hiller will be in charge of that. Dalvin Cook is his prized possession. Most likely will be looking to break the bank after a large season. A great season. I’m not sure where you are getting your values from, but there is no doubt he will most likely command top 5 money if he can. 
 

Keeping up with McCaffery isn’t my reasoning, it’s the fact of just signing RB’s to second contracts isn’t the greatest way to spend your money. Look what just turned of Todd Gurley. Zeke while special isn’t leading teams to Superbowls. Heck, go back to AP, he was a true workhorse and nothing came out of that. I just don’t value spending money on RB’s, but I don’t mind spending early draft picks on young fresh legs. 
 

Good runningbacks don’t have to bother coming here during free agency, pick them in the draft and they really don’t have a choice. Get a 20 year old coming out of college and they will love to have a shot to be the Vikings starting RB in an offense that loves the running game. 
 

 

[gopherwrestler]

13 minutes ago, babababa said:

Running Backs are looking at getting a separate union and I think it's high time that happens. Everyone has undervalued them. No other position is asked so much and gets paid so little. It's completely unfair.

What happened to the respect for the guys that have to get destroyed 15-20 times per game by linemen and linebackers.

Just Insane. 

The respect is there, but is also shown after so many carries, and beatings, the bruises.... RB’s wear down, and the young guys can come and take over and perform at the same level, and for a cheaper price. 
 

As a business owner, if you can get something new, at a cheaper price, that can do the same job for multiple years, vs something used, that the wheels might fall off of sooner than later, at a more expensive price, what are you choosing...

 

holy commas 

[babababa]

vikingsrule said: "Blaming OL or injuries for his fall off doesn’t excuse him of this relative to if he’s worth being paid as what will likely now be top 3 RB money." 

And so my response was that he (as far as I know) hasn't claimed to want that amount. 

...And why would a rookie want to come here and be asked to slam into front-7s 10-20 times per game knowing they will be expendable. They would rather be on a team that values their future with the organization.

[JDBrocks]

1 minute ago, babababa said:

...And why would a rookie want to come here and be asked to slam into front-7s 10-20 times per game knowing they will be expendable. They would rather be on a team that values their future with the organization.

A rookie doesn't have a choice. That's the point. It sucks - I'm not denying that. But from an organizational standpoint, allocating money to more important long term/foundational positions is just smart. The goal is to win games and championships, not to make sure that individuals feel valued.

[swede700]

17 minutes ago, Heimdallr said:

Same thing that has happened to every other working class job over the last 50 years.

I'd be interested to find out the percentage of RBs who have continued to vote for the same people that put them in that position (by ratifying the CBA).  

[Heimdallr]

3 minutes ago, babababa said:

...And why would a rookie want to come here and be asked to slam into front-7s 10-20 times per game knowing they will be expendable. They would rather be on a team that values their future with the organization.

If someone offered you more money than you have ever seen in your life to do your dream job, I'm pretty sure you would take it.

They also are going to play all-out because if they don't they won't get a 2nd contract at all, regardless if it is in Minnesota or somewhere else.

[vikingsrule]

2 minutes ago, babababa said:

vikingsrule said: "Blaming OL or injuries for his fall off doesn’t excuse him of this relative to if he’s worth being paid as what will likely now be top 3 RB money." 

And so my response was that he (as far as I know) hasn't claimed to want that amount. 

...And why would a rookie want to come here and be asked to slam into front-7s 10-20 times per game knowing they will be expendable. They would rather be on a team that values their future with the organization.

When was the last time you’ve seen a rookie RB take this stance. It’s never happened. A 21 year old is more grateful at the opportunity to make $750k right out of college than the circumstances you’re trying to lay out. We may see fewer top athletes want to be a RB, but those who choose to stay with the position know the risk. RBs are a dime a dozen. Special ones aren’t. Cook is a dime a dozen RB in my mind and will likely fade away after 2-3 years of great production. Given how many touches he had in college, his peak is now. You’re just never going to get value for his production two to three years from now when he inevitably falls off.