Moving On To 2020/2021.

[byuvike88]

1 hour ago, whitehops said:

i'm not that concerned about WR... this is such a loaded WR class we can find one day 2 that can start right away and be productive. 

 

obviously they won't be as good as diggs but that was never the expectation when we traded him.

Even if they do, they absolutely need another veteran. You can't go on with Thielen, Bisi, and an unproven rookie. 

[Vikes_Bolts1228]

1 hour ago, whitehops said:

i'm not that concerned about WR... this is such a loaded WR class we can find one day 2 that can start right away and be productive. 

 

obviously they won't be as good as diggs but that was never the expectation when we traded him.

Zimmer has never started a rookie WR regularly. 

I'm not getting my hopes up for 2020's WR corps.

Edited March 22, 2020 by Vikes_Bolts1228

[vikingsrule]

16 minutes ago, byuvike88 said:

Even if they do, they absolutely need another veteran. You can't go on with Thielen, Bisi, and an unproven rookie. 

That’s assuming Thielen actually stays healthy this year. I hope injuries don’t become an issue for him.

[dc_vikingfan]

I'm really hoping the Vikings don't go WR in the 1st (I do like Jefferson). I believe Vikings is trading one of their 1st to move back, gain more picks and save a little cap space. What are some thoughts on late 1st mid 2nd round prospects DT Ross Blacklock, OL Lloyd Cushenberry, or OL Ezra Cleveland?

Edited March 22, 2020 by dc_vikingfan

[CriminalMind]

Moving back is just going to devalue all these picks, as they need quality over quantity. Yes, we have multiple holes, but quantity may lead to guys who are just backups, not starters in the long run. Gotta look at it from 2 year perspective.

However, if Rick\Zim think there jobs are on the line this year, they might make selections for the short terms while sacrificing long term.

[vikestyle]

11 hours ago, Vikes_Bolts1228 said:

Zimmer has never started a rookie WR regularly. 

I'm not getting my hopes up for 2020's WR corps.

Stefon Diggs played over 50% of the snaps in weeks 4 through the wild card game his rookie year. It says he only "started" 9 games that year, but that's because they regularly chose to "start" 3 tight ends. He really started every game from week 5 on. He led the team in targets, receptions, and yards. On a playoff team. As a rookie. Him and Thielen have been the 2 starters at WR since then, so I'm not really sure why you would have wanted him to start a rookie regularly in that stretch?

Once again, it's not an unwillingness to play rookies at the position, it's an unwillingness to play bad rookies at the position. Zimmer would rather roll with a questionable veteran over a questionable rookie. If Spielman drafts somebody that is ready to play, Zimmer will play him. 

[Ozzy]

6 hours ago, dc_vikingfan said:

I'm really hoping the Vikings don't go WR in the 1st (I do like Jefferson). I believe Vikings is trading one of their 1st to move back, gain more picks and save a little cap space. What are some thoughts on late 1st mid 2nd round prospects DT Ross Blacklock, OL Lloyd Cushenberry, or OL Ezra Cleveland?

I would not mind them trading back no question about it.  Could be a great idea and would provide much more value for a OG moved backwards a little.  Then again CB is a must 1st round I feel and possibly another in the 2nd or 3rd as well.  DT is less of a need now compared to DE I feel, and if Epenesa or YGM fall to us how can they not take them and a CB?  So trading out of there might be out of the question, especially at DE where other guys are not as the same level those top few are.  

[Vikes22]

1 hour ago, CriminalMind said:

Moving back is just going to devalue all these picks, as they need quality over quantity. Yes, we have multiple holes, but quantity may lead to guys who are just backups, not starters in the long run. Gotta look at it from 2 year perspective.

However, if Rick\Zim think there jobs are on the line this year, they might make selections for the short terms while sacrificing long term.

I agree. We don’t want to move back and get backups. If anything, I’m all for moving up in the 2nd and 3rd rounds to get better players..

 

if we do decide to move back in the 1st, I would only go 2 or 3 spots at most. That might be enough to pick up an additional 3rd or 4th round pick.

[vikingsrule]

2 minutes ago, Vikes22 said:

I agree. We don’t want to move back and get backups. If anything, I’m all for moving up in the 2nd and 3rd rounds to get better players..

 

if we do decide to move back in the 1st, I would only go 2 or 3 spots at most. That might be enough to pick up an additional 3rd or 4th round pick.

Agreed. This team needs starters, not depth. With as many picks we have, we will have plenty of ammo to build depth. Trade the second and thirds for a first is what I’d do.

[RpMc]

Trading back is just smart business if you feel there is depth at positions of need or many players left in the same tier of your board.  You still have a chance at a player in that tier AND you get an extra dart throw later. 
 

I don’t get where the thoughts of trading back = more likely to be backup got married together. The draft isn’t a straight vertical ranking proposition. 
 

 Trading down is how we’ve ended up with the the selections that netted us Stefon Diggs and many others.  Trading up is a good idea if you’re moving up for the final player or two in that tier of your board. 

Edited March 22, 2020 by RpMc

[Vikes22]

28 minutes ago, RpMc said:

Trading back is just smart business if you feel there is depth at positions of need or many players left in the same tier of your board.  You still have a chance at a player in that tier AND you get an extra dart throw later. 
 

I don’t get where the thoughts of trading back = more likely to be backup got married together. The draft isn’t a straight vertical ranking proposition. 
 

 Trading down is how we’ve ended up with the the selections that netted us Stefon Diggs and many others.  Trading up is a good idea if you’re moving up for the final player or two in that tier of your board. 

Like I said, I would trade back up to 3 spots in the 1st round.After the 1st round, I’m all in on moving up. Like you said, for those 1 or 2 players that you really like and have them in a higher tier.

in my eyes, smart business is turning 5 picks ( 1st 3 rounds ) into at least 4 starts and a really good rotation player. 
 

That’s my goal in this draft.

[Vikes_Bolts1228]

2 hours ago, vikestyle said:

Stefon Diggs played over 50% of the snaps in weeks 4 through the wild card game his rookie year. It says he only "started" 9 games that year, but that's because they regularly chose to "start" 3 tight ends. He really started every game from week 5 on. He led the team in targets, receptions, and yards. On a playoff team. As a rookie. Him and Thielen have been the 2 starters at WR since then, so I'm not really sure why you would have wanted him to start a rookie regularly in that stretch?

Once again, it's not an unwillingness to play rookies at the position, it's an unwillingness to play bad rookies at the position. Zimmer would rather roll with a questionable veteran over a questionable rookie. If Spielman drafts somebody that is ready to play, Zimmer will play him. 

Good points.

[CriminalMind]

4 hours ago, vikingsrule said:

Agreed. This team needs starters, not depth. With as many picks we have, we will have plenty of ammo to build depth. Trade the second and thirds for a first is what I’d do.

I think 2nd\3rd\3rd can get us into the top of the 2nd category (maybe #35), which I would do if the guy available had a reasonable chance of "v. good starter" ... Add opposed to all the remaining picks be more or less dart board throws. 

So in a big advocate of moving up, if the players available are in higher tiers, as opposed to settling for many players in low (but equal) tiers.

Edited March 22, 2020 by CriminalMind

[Vikes_Bolts1228]

29 minutes ago, CriminalMind said:

I think 2nd\3rd\3rd can get us into the top of the 2nd category (maybe #35), which I would do if the guy available had a reasonable chance of "v. good starter" ... Add opposed to all the remaining picks be more or less dart board throws. 

So in a big advocate of moving up, if the players available are in higher tiers, as opposed to settling for many players in low (but equal) tiers.

Exactly this.

Previous years we've had the luxury of being able to draft for depth as we didn't have many holes. We know Rick loves to trade back and get his 6th and 7th rounders.

But with so many holes (OL, WR, CB, DE, DT to an extent)....we need plug and play players, not players that may be something in 2021 or 2022 or beyond.

This is the year to package picks later in the 2020 and even 2021 picks to move up if you can get players who will be a starter from day one.

22 and 25 HAVE to be day 1 starters. Like CriminalMinds said, even if you have to trade our 2nd with a couple thirds to get another day 1 starter, you do it.

This is NOT the year for Rick to repeatedly trade back and get "could be" players in late day 2 and day 3.

Edited March 22, 2020 by Vikes_Bolts1228

[vikestyle]

44 minutes ago, Vikes_Bolts1228 said:

Exactly this.

Previous years we've had the luxury of being able to draft for depth as we didn't have many holes. We know Rick loves to trade back and get his 6th and 7th rounders.

But with so many holes (OL, WR, CB, DE, DT to an extent)....we need plug and play players, not players that may be something in 2021 or 2022 or beyond.

This is the year to package picks later in the 2020 and even 2021 picks to move up if you can get players who will be a starter from day one.

22 and 25 HAVE to be day 1 starters. Like CriminalMinds said, even if you have to trade our 2nd with a couple thirds to get another day 1 starter, you do it.

This is NOT the year for Rick to repeatedly trade back and get "could be" players in late day 2 and day 3.

What would you think about packaging our 1st (#22) and second to move up into the teens, and then trading back with #25? There are several teams with 2 seconds. I look at a team like Houston who has #40 and #57. Then we could get 1 top tier talent, and 2 starters in the second.