2018 Draft thread - PICK THE FASTEST GUY AVAILABLE

[goldfishwars]

Hi guys

We're voting on Oakland's pick at 10 in the draft section. It would be great to have your thoughts and votes. 

Thanks

GFW

[BigD1123]

On 2/17/2018 at 2:11 PM, big_palooka said:

Tremaine Edmunds has really been overhyped. He's a pure projection pick at this point. He has a lot of flaws in his game mostly where it matters. Instinct and IQ. You're betting on him putting it all together on the next level. 

I can't touch that top 10. He's not remotely close to Smith in terms of football IQ from the LBB spot. He is as boom or bust as they get in the top 10 and some sources are treating him likes he's already a polished prospect. 

Will probably never happen but I saw a mock where he fell to the second. I was thinking of this convo when I saw it. Man could you imagine getting both?? 

[Rich7sena]

On 2/17/2018 at 4:10 PM, big_palooka said:

With Gruden in the fold, you can throw away any past perceptions. Reggie showed his approach to the LB spot was a disaster. Still one of the weakest spots since he's been on board. CB and Dline not far behind.

IMO, they sign a DT in FA and go likely CB/LB in the draft. There is no value at DT in the top 10. 

There are far more talented CBs and LBs potentially hitting free agency than DTs. And, as many have already pointed out, Paul Guenther has himself come out and said linebacker is not a priority position for him on defense.

Unless Gruden has ultimate, overriding, "love this guy" veto power, I doubt the Raiders go linebacker in round 1.

[big_palooka]

7 hours ago, BigD1123 said:

Will probably never happen but I saw a mock where he fell to the second. I was thinking of this convo when I saw it. Man could you imagine getting both?? 

Of course that will never happen, but that would be fun. His projection is to obviously high. He has all you want, just lacks in the football IQ/instincts. He's worth a top 20 pick. 

[Rolni]

1 hour ago, Rich7sena said:

There are far more talented CBs and LBs potentially hitting free agency than DTs. And, as many have already pointed out, Paul Guenther has himself come out and said linebacker is not a priority position for him on defense.

Unless Gruden has ultimate, overriding, "love this guy" veto power, I doubt the Raiders go linebacker in round 1.

If/when we bring back Bowman we should be alright at MLB.

I think that PG and Lippincott will mold Morrow into a solid WLB. 

Cory James can be a solution at SLB IMO if he is healthy.

M.Lee can also be a solid rotational piece under this new D staff IMO.

I know I will get some negativ comments on this, but I really think that PG can field a solid D with James, Bowman and Morrow if the DL is upgraded in front of them.

He will ask our LB's to cover and to keep their gaps against the run. I think both James and Morrow showed this year here and there that they can do that. With better coaching they could be solid options IMO.

I'm not saying we are set at LB or we should not bring in new guys at LB. I just feel that we won't go LB early and we could be alright with this trio if this defensive coaching staff is truly a nice upgrade over our former staff.

Bowman, James, Morrow, Lee could be a solid group.

Also guys like Cowser or Calhoun could get looks at SLB IMO...

And we still don't know what will happen with Bruce Irvin who could be a base SLB solution early on.

Also we don't know what RM/JG will do in FA...there could be options out there for us.

Nigel Bradham, Anthony Hitchens, Tahir Whitehead, Christian Jones, Devon Kennard could all be options if we let Bruce go with his salary...

 

I can see us bringing back Bowman to man the MLB spot, getting an under the radar guy like Kennard to come battle for SLB role and work with James and Morrow to hold down the WLB spot. Lee will also be here for the SLB/MLB depth role, so we might just need one middle-late rounder rookie and some UDFA's to field a solid LB group come September.

 

 

 

 

[big_palooka]

4 hours ago, Rich7sena said:

There are far more talented CBs and LBs potentially hitting free agency than DTs. And, as many have already pointed out, Paul Guenther has himself come out and said linebacker is not a priority position for him on defense.

Unless Gruden has ultimate, overriding, "love this guy" veto power, I doubt the Raiders go linebacker in round 1.

Can you link to that please. I posted it previously, but he was quoted regarding the draft (paraphrasing here) that they look at pass rushers and cover men first. If there is a LB who is talented, they will take a hard look. 

So may not be a priority, but if a guy stands out, they will take a look. 

[raidr4life]

On 2/17/2018 at 11:11 AM, big_palooka said:

Tremaine Edmunds has really been overhyped. He's a pure projection pick at this point. He has a lot of flaws in his game mostly where it matters. Instinct and IQ. You're betting on him putting it all together on the next level. 

I can't touch that top 10. He's not remotely close to Smith in terms of football IQ from the LBB spot. He is as boom or bust as they get in the top 10 and some sources are treating him likes he's already a polished prospect. 

I've been saying he isn't a first round pick, maybe he goes late first, but no way he is top 10 and there will be a least 8 players on the board at 10 that I would take over him.

[big_palooka]

33 minutes ago, raidr4life said:

I've been saying he isn't a first round pick, maybe he goes late first, but no way he is top 10 and there will be a least 8 players on the board at 10 that I would take over him.

You're drafting potential. I think he's a first round pick, but not top 20 for me. 

Smith, Ward, James is where my mind is at right now. 

lol.... I hate agreeing with NCOUGH but watching Derwin James, he is special. He is going to blow up at the combine and be a surefire top 10 pick 

[Rich7sena]

1 hour ago, big_palooka said:

Can you link to that please. I posted it previously, but he was quoted regarding the draft (paraphrasing here) that they look at pass rushers and cover men first. If there is a LB who is talented, they will take a hard look. 

So may not be a priority, but if a guy stands out, they will take a look. 

http://kdwn.com/2018/01/19/will-paul-guenther-make-raiders-pass-roquan-smith/

Quote

“I was a linebackers coach and I was always one to defer in the draft,” Guenther said. “If we had a better corner or rusher to take one of those two before the linebacker. We made a living in Cincinnati of getting guys as free agents, guys who were maybe former safeties, small-school guys.”

 

[big_palooka]

5 hours ago, Rolni said:

I think that PG and Lippincott will mold Morrow into a solid WLB. 

Cory James can be a solution at SLB IMO if he is healthy.

M.Lee can also be a solid rotational piece under this new D staff IMO.

This is what kills me with this fan base. Best case, these players are "just guys". More likely, they are depth/ST players. They are not overly talented and haven't show enough to this point to "think" anything about them. So instead of addressing a weak LB unit, we just role with a bunch of unknowns and Bowman who's best football is long behind him. Same paper logic that leads to heartache every season when they don't live up to expectations. 

 You go in to the season with Bowman, James and Marrow you might as well prepare for another long season on defense. 

James and Marrow are depth players at best. So trying to prop them up is the same issue we saw with this group a year ago. And there is no depth to speak of behind them. James can't stay healthy and they are an injury away from unraveling completely. 

Guenther isn't a miracle worker. He had TALENT on each unit of his defense. Dunlap/Geno upfront. Burfict at LB. WJIII in the secondary. The Raiders have 1 player actual talent in Mack. The rest are JAGs or unproven rookies (Conley/Obi) who've yet to play. 

[big_palooka]

1 hour ago, Rich7sena said:

http://kdwn.com/2018/01/19/will-paul-guenther-make-raiders-pass-roquan-smith/

 

It's the Zimmer philosophy, so I get it. That said..... Vikes drafted Barr 9 overall. And The next year Kendrick 42 who are a core of their defense. 

Outside Chubb, there isn't another pass rusher worth a top 10. Ward/Fitz, may be there. Passing Smith for anyone other than that group would be a mistake IMO.

[holyghost]

1 hour ago, big_palooka said:

It's the Zimmer philosophy, so I get it. That said..... Vikes drafted Barr 9 overall. And The next year Kendrick 42 who are a core of their defense. 

Outside Chubb, there isn't another pass rusher worth a top 10. Ward/Fitz, may be there. Passing Smith for anyone other than that group would be a mistake IMO.

No pass rusher there, unless Raiders love Davenport. What about Vea? The idea has grown on me. We need a line partner for Mack of some kind, and we also lack strength on the line. And please noone say Ellis in reply to that. I like Hurst, but unfortunately between Ward, Edwards, Autry we have all the small DTs that can fit on a roster. Not that any of them are good, but since when have we had a big strong DT? 

[Dessie]

8 hours ago, Rolni said:

If/when we bring back Bowman we should be alright at MLB.

I think that PG and Lippincott will mold Morrow into a solid WLB. 

Cory James can be a solution at SLB IMO if he is healthy.

M.Lee can also be a solid rotational piece under this new D staff IMO.

I know I will get some negativ comments on this, but I really think that PG can field a solid D with James, Bowman and Morrow if the DL is upgraded in front of them.

He will ask our LB's to cover and to keep their gaps against the run. I think both James and Morrow showed this year here and there that they can do that. With better coaching they could be solid options IMO.

I'm not saying we are set at LB or we should not bring in new guys at LB. I just feel that we won't go LB early and we could be alright with this trio if this defensive coaching staff is truly a nice upgrade over our former staff.

Bowman, James, Morrow, Lee could be a solid group.

Also guys like Cowser or Calhoun could get looks at SLB IMO...

And we still don't know what will happen with Bruce Irvin who could be a base SLB solution early on.

Also we don't know what RM/JG will do in FA...there could be options out there for us.

Nigel Bradham, Anthony Hitchens, Tahir Whitehead, Christian Jones, Devon Kennard could all be options if we let Bruce go with his salary...

 

I can see us bringing back Bowman to man the MLB spot, getting an under the radar guy like Kennard to come battle for SLB role and work with James and Morrow to hold down the WLB spot. Lee will also be here for the SLB/MLB depth role, so we might just need one middle-late rounder rookie and some UDFA's to field a solid LB group come September.

 

 

 

 

Any chance we use Mack as SLB in run downs? Guenther seems to like bigger body types at DE. Johnson 6’7 272lbs and Carlos Dunlap 6’6 280lbs. Do we think Mack is a good fit as a 4-3 DE?

Mack going against RTs full time may wear down and ultimately affect his pass rushing. 

[oakdb36]

I think Mack would play weakside End in the base so he wouldn't be going against RTs full time.

Imo, using Mack at SLB in Guenther's scheme would be a bad idea. Mack should be on the LOS every down.

[Dessie]

2 minutes ago, oakdb36 said:

I think Mack would play weakside End in the base so he wouldn't be going against RTs full time.

Imo, using Mack at SLB in Guenther's scheme would be a bad idea. Mack should be on the LOS every down.

Wondered if we would move him to weak side, he’s not as effective from there though. He’s got the vast majority of his sacks from LDE.