General off-season discussion/plan thread

[y2lamanaki]

12 hours ago, N4L said:

14 is a lame number for a wr, not that it really matters 

Why do all of these kids who play WRchoose numbers in the teens these days? 

My guess is a combination of a few different factors. One is a generational thing - kids coming into the league grew up in an era where some of the top/popular receivers culturally were guys like Larry Fitzgerald (#11), Julio Jones (#11), OBJ (#13), DeSean Jackson (#10), DeAndre Hopkins (#10), so naturally, there will be a lot of emulating of idols stemming from childhood (I wore #82 for John Taylor and because #80 was taken).

Another factor could be legacy. If I give you this list of numbers, you're already going to associate receivers with them: #80, #81, #84, #87, #88. They might not all be 49ers, but you probably picture a player. Some of the weirder teen numbers are more "legacy-free" among wide receivers. Certain guys are wired to think this way.  

And another factor (which I think is stupid, but know is a thing): Numbers in the teens look slimmer then bulky jersey numbers in the 80s. For some guys, look is everything, and this matters a lot. That's why in college you will see a #1 on probably every single team, and chances are pretty high it will be a receiver, defensive back, quarterback, or elusive running back. But in the NFL, since you have either the teens or the 80s from which to choose as a WR, most guys will gravitate toward the teens and especially #11, and it's part of why you will probably find few NFL teams without a #11 on its roster (another being reason #1 above).

[49erurtaza]

Interesting convo at 8:45 John says they felt like Buckner was a bit to small weight wise and they wanted to go a bit bigger and that Kinlaw fit hes at a lean 325. 

[757-NINER]

9 minutes ago, 49erurtaza said:

Interesting convo at 8:45 John says they felt like Buckner was a bit to small weight wise and they wanted to go a bit bigger and that Kinlaw fit hes at a lean 325. 

It's bull**** but whatever. Not like Buckner couldn't add weight...dude is 6'7. And he and Armstead are the same size. You could have just chose not to re-sign Armstead.

I've come to terms with the trade. The end game is that they couldn't keep both AA and DeFo so they chose to trade the guy who had the better trade value. Smart business. But the need to justify it to the fanbase with this notion that DeFo wasn't big enough to be have a role in the scheme moving forward is just laughable. 

Edited April 29, 2020 by 757-NINER

[49ersfan]

There's a thread in NFL Gen for grading 2017 classes. That got me thinking...what grade would you give the 49ers last 3 draft classes (2017-2019)

2017 49ers draft 

1:3 - DL Solomon Thomas

1:31 - LB Reuben Foster 

3:66 - DB Akhello Witherspoon

3:104 - QB CJ Beatheard

4:121 - RB Joe Williams

5:177 - WR Trent Taylor

6:198 - DT DJ Jones

6:202 - DE Pita Taumoepenu

7:229 - S Adrian Colbert

Notable UDFA - QB Nick Mullens, WR Kendrick Bourne, RB Matt Breida (traded for 2020 5th rounder)

2018 49ers Draft

1:9 - OT Mike McGlinchey

2:44 - WR Dante Pettis

3:70 - LB Fred Warner

3:95 - DB Tarvarius Moore

4:128 - DL Kentavius Street

5:142 - CB DJ Reed

6:184 - S Marcell Harris

7:223 - DT Jullian Taylor

7:240 - WR Richie James

Notable UDFA: TE Ross Dwelley, CB Emmanuel Moseley

2019 NFL Draft

1:2 - DE Nick Bosa

2:36 - WR Deebo Samuel

3:67 - WR Jalen Hurd

4:110 - P Mitch Wishnosky

5:148 - LB Dre Greenlaw

6:176 - TE Kaden Smith

6:183 - OT Justin Skule

6:198 - CB Tim Harris

Notable UDFA - LB Aziz Al-Shair, DL Kevin Givens

I'd give 2017 a B, we got an All-Pro TE, solid starting DT,  decent slot WR when healthy, and solid backups at CB/QB/WR/RB (with the RB now traded for a 2020 5th). Whiffing on both 1sts + a 3rd and 4th hurt

I'd give 2018 a B as well, we got a solid starting T, LB, & CB, and good backup S, CB, WR, DT, WR, & TE

I'd give 2019 a A+, All-Pro caliber DE, solid starting WR, solid starting LB, solid P. Backups/competing at backup for LB, DL, OT, & CB this year. Could get another solid WR if Hurd is healthy

Late round/UDFA contribute a ton for us. 

 

 

 

 

[J-ALL-DAY]

1 hour ago, 49erurtaza said:

Interesting convo at 8:45 John says they felt like Buckner was a bit to small weight wise and they wanted to go a bit bigger and that Kinlaw fit hes at a lean 325. 

Also said they were scared Atlanta was going to take Kinlaw and if Kinlaw was gone, they probably would have traded back and maybe gone with Wirfs since the Williams trade was not done at that point.

[49erurtaza]

30 minutes ago, J-ALL-DAY said:

Also said they were scared Atlanta was going to take Kinlaw and if Kinlaw was gone, they probably would have traded back and maybe gone with Wirfs since the Williams trade was not done at that point.

It's crazy knowing the whole back story and it working out. If we didn't trade Trent Williams we would be questioning what the heck they are doing. 

[Forge]

25 minutes ago, 49erurtaza said:

It's crazy knowing the whole back story and it working out. If we didn't trade Trent Williams we would be questioning what the heck they are doing. 

I'm still questioning what the heck they are doing

No, not really. The Wirfs thing for me was admittedly tough though, regardless of the Williams / Staley thing. Passing up the receiver at the top was kind of whatever; I get why a team would try to smash biggest bang for their buck on that one given how deep the class was and having a second pick in the first round. 

[757-NINER]

So what's everyone's NFC Power Rankings after the draft?? For me, its...

 

1. Niners

2. Cowpukes

3. Bucs

4. Eagles

5. Saints

6. GB

7. Seattle

I went with 7 because that's the number of playoff teams moving forward...

I believe we're clearly the favorites heading into the next season. The draft further cemented that. Losing DeFo may affect us earlier in the year but I think we'll start to hit our stride defensively midway through the year. The health of both Ford and Bosa will be paramount.

I hate to say it but I thought Dallas killed the draft. I can see everyone of their picks, minus the QB really contributing to their team next year. Lamb in that offense is going to be too much for most defenses to contain. Their defensive secondary is a liability so they're going to give up a ton of points in general. And they'll be behind the 8-Ball with a whole new staff and a not having a traditional offseason. But they really have a shot to catapult themselves into one of the teams to beat imo.

Insert Brady and Gronk into that Bucs team and you have to take notice. The defense is sneaky good and definitely underatted. They still have to go out and prove it but on paper they look like one of the better teams in the NFC.

I think the Iggles have a great shot to make it back to the post-season. Though the Hurts pick was very odd, I think they've acquired a good mix of talent through free agency and the draft.  and should be right in the thick of things for a playoff birth.

As long as Peyton is there, NO will always be in contention. That being said, I think Brees is done. For the past two years, by the time the playoffs have rolled around, his arm has looked weak. They have had two close playoff loses in consecutive years because Brees didn't look like his regular season self. Didn't have the velocity to fit throws in certain windows and couldn't push the ball down the field. Sanders will help their passing game be more diverse than just chucking the ball to Thomas every other play. But until I see otherwise, I can't trust Brees in the playoffs. 

GB will still be the king of the NFC North but picking your QBOTF instead of addressing needs will be the talk all off-season and will be a distraction heading into next season. Not to mention I don't think they've really added anything to that roster that makes me believe they'll be back in the NFCCG. But with Rodgers, you always have a puncher's chance.

And lastly, I just think Seattle won too many close games last year. It has to regress to the mean at some point. People believe they're a better team than what they are. They still have alot of holes imo. But they have Wilson...and that's the only reason their in the playoff hunt, year after year. 

 

 

[Forge]

4 minutes ago, 757-NINER said:

So what's everyone's NFC Power Rankings after the draft?? For me, its...

 

1. Niners

2. Cowpukes

3. Bucs

4. Eagles

5. Saints

6. GB

7. Seattle

I went with 7 because that's the number of playoff teams moving forward...

I believe we're clearly the favorites heading into the next season. The draft further cemented that. Losing DeFo may affect us earlier in the year but I think we'll start to hit our stride defensively midway through the year. The health of both Ford and Bosa will be paramount.

I hate to say it but I thought Dallas killed the draft. I can see everyone of their picks, minus the QB really contributing to their team next year. Lamb in that offense is going to be too much for most defenses to contain. Their defensive secondary is a liability so they're going to give up a ton of points in general. And they'll be behind the 8-Ball with a whole new staff and a not having a traditional offseason. But they really have a shot to catapult themselves into one of the teams to beat imo.

Insert Brady and Gronk into that Bucs team and you have to take notice. The defense is sneaky good and definitely underatted. They still have to go out and prove it but on paper they look like one of the better teams in the NFC.

I think the Iggles have a great shot to make it back to the post-season. Though the Hurts pick was very odd, I think they've acquired a good mix of talent through free agency and the draft.  and should be right in the thick of things for a playoff birth.

As long as Peyton is there, NO will always be in contention. That being said, I think Brees is done. For the past two years, by the time the playoffs have rolled around, his arm has looked weak. They have had two close playoff loses in consecutive years because Brees didn't look like his regular season self. Didn't have the velocity to fit throws in certain windows and couldn't push the ball down the field. Sanders will help their passing game be more diverse than just chucking the ball to Thomas every other play. But until I see otherwise, I can't trust Brees in the playoffs. 

GB will still be the king of the NFC North but picking your QBOTF instead of addressing needs will be the talk all off-season and will be a distraction heading into next season. Not to mention I don't think they've really added anything to that roster that makes me believe they'll be back in the NFCCG. But with Rodgers, you always have a puncher's chance.

And lastly, I just think Seattle won too many close games last year. It has to regress to the mean at some point. People believe they're a better team than what they are. They still have alot of holes imo. But they have Wilson...and that's the only reason their in the playoff hunt, year after year. 

 

 

I'm glad you brought up Dallas...they did kill the draft, and even though McCarthy isn't great, he's a huge step forward from Garrett. They are going to be better. Some defensive questions for sure (secondary is not good at this point), but I think they can just score 40+ on everyone lol. Dallas even killed the UDFA portion of the draft. They signed my boy Charlie T from Portland State...would have been a perfect replacement for Juice. 

My PR

1. Saints (during the regular season...they get reshuffled in the playoffs lol).

2. Us

3. Philly 

4. Dallas

5. Tampa 

6. Rams

7. Packers

3-5 are largely interchangeable for me right now

[sherm]

Cowboys always have the pre-season hype. Them and Tampa are more wait and see...but do have the potential to be playoff teams. SF, NO, GB and Seattle are the top 4 teams for me. Philly or Dallas winner takes the NFCE. Min and TB get the extra WC spots. 

[Forge]

1 minute ago, sherm said:

Cowboys always have the pre-season hype. Them and Tampa are more wait and see...but do have the potential to be playoff teams. SF, NO, GB and Seattle are the top 4 teams for me. Philly or Dallas winner takes the NFCE. Min and TB get the extra WC spots. 

I know...I don't want to fall into the trap on Dallas or Tampa. 

For me, the Dallas thing honestly comes down to McCarthy. I don't think he's a good coach, but I think he's a competent one if you know what I mean. I don't think that this is a team that is going to lose a lot of the games they were inexplicably losing under JG for what appears to be no reason. The defense is still not good, so that could def be a problem. 

I always bet against Seattle, and every year Russell Wilson smacks me like a punk and laughs. I figure why mess with tradition? 

[Forge]

8 hours ago, dan77733 said:

At this point, needing a veteran WR who doesn't cause issues, is pretty much always healthy and still productive is more valuable to me than Ward especially since there's no veteran WR to replace him. Moore isn't as good a tackler but he's young and can improve plus under a cheap contract. Also, don't forget, at #31, if I couldn't trade out of the first round for 2021 picks, I could/would have drafted McKinney so safety wouldn't be an issue either way. I simply wouldn't have picked Ward over Buckner or Sanders. That's all.

I know Thomas is basically worthless and correct me if im wrong but compensation picks are based on what players you lose and what players you sign in FA. I wouldn't be signing any FA's except our own so even if it's a late round comp pick, still better than nothing. Or at the very least, would have already traded him for a late round draft pick. Worse case scenario, he leaves as a UFA in 2021, he's off the books and we get nothing. Either way, im good with it.

I missed Kittle because he was on the bottom of the list and I completely missed him. That's my mistake. Nevertheless, no biggie and easy fix. For 2021, taking away Ford, Staley and Ward, team has $80m in cap room. Kittle would be #1, Buckner #2, Tartt #3, Juszczyk #4, Jones #5. Overall, they have plenty of cap room. Will we lose a few backups and depth players? Sure but they can be replaced in the Draft. We don't have Williams or Kinlaw but we retain Buckner and I would have drafted an OT at 14 so Williams/Kinlaw wouldn't be on the team. Plus, Williams is going to demad a good amount of money so I don't see how paying a 32 year old OT is better than paying a 25 year old stud DT. I just don't see it. Tartt gets resigned. Brunskill would be extended. Blair coming off an ACL injury is probably out for 2020 so re-signing him for 2021/2022 would be cheap to do. The two backup QB's are worth what? A few million each at best. I would most likely trade C.J. this off-season and re-sign Mullens as the backup. would let Coleman leave as an UFA in 2021. I still have Mostert, Breida (would have kept him) and Wilson. I'm fine at RB. Would let Hyder leave as a UFA in 2021. Hasn't done much in years and will be 30 going into 2021 season.

When saying Jet, im assuming you mean McKinnon right? If so, he would already be gone. I simply wouldn't choose a guy who hasn't played in 3 years, is older and quite honestly, Breida outperformed him in their first three seasons respectively. Why would I go with McKinnon? To save a few million? Nah. Give me the better player and keep my 3/4 headed monster at RB intact. I understand why we kept Coleman and that's not even my issue. I just don't see the value in keeping McKinnon over Breida. Maybe if Shanahan gave Breida more carries, he would be productive like he was. No player can be productive if he's not getting any carries. As for McKinnon, I simply believe that he's done. Maybe im right, maybe im wrong. Either way, I wouldn't take the gamble no matter how cheap he is.

For Trent Williams, remember, I would have already drafted my Staley replacement under a cheap rookie contract for four years. I don't need Williams and I keep my 2021 3rd rounder. My OT would have been Ezra Cleveland. Probably more Cleveland over Jackson. Is he raw? Absolutely but can he be a quality LT for the next decade? Also, absolutely. Now, if you want to still trade 2021 3rd rounder for Williams and let Cleveland sit for a year, okay fine even though I wouldn't do that. If anything, I just put Brunskill at LT for a year.

The trade deal for Williams isn't bad value but if he gets re-signed for $10m+ a season, im sorry I just don't agree with that. And if we let him leave in 2021, we're in the same spot. I would have traded down a few more spots and then drafted Cleveland to be honest as I think he'll be better than Jackson, Wirfs or the guy TEN drafted. Can't remember his name.

Overall, if anything, im basically letting Ward go in favor of keeping Buckner. Sanders would have been one year deal, maybe two but most likely, a one year deal. Safety wise, I would have drafted McKinney at #31 if I couldn't somehow get a team to trade away their 2021 1st or their 2020 2nd and 3rd which in that scenario, I wouldn't have to keep Tartt in 2021 either. McKinney can play everywhere like Tartt and I still have Moore. Preference though would have been to trade out of #31 more for a 2021 first or even a 2022 first. Either way. I still have safeties, plenty of cap room, I get younger and I let the player who's injury prone let walk.

I'll let you decide, dan....do we want to keep going with this, or just call it a night? Because I still have a lot of questions and comments to pose after this  lol

[sherm]

5 minutes ago, Forge said:

I know...I don't want to fall into the trap on Dallas or Tampa. 

For me, the Dallas thing honestly comes down to McCarthy. I don't think he's a good coach, but I think he's a competent one if you know what I mean. I don't think that this is a team that is going to lose a lot of the games they were inexplicably losing under JG for what appears to be no reason. The defense is still not good, so that could def be a problem. 

I always bet against Seattle, and every year Russell Wilson smacks me like a punk and laughs. I figure why mess with tradition? 

Remember how beat up Philly was last yr. If they can stay healthy they will push for the division. Seattle being in the playoffs is based off of Russ and Russ only. Cardinals will be better but I think they're a yr away from being legit division winners. Rams I'm not sure about. I think they could win 10 gms or finish last in our division.

[757-NINER]

54 minutes ago, sherm said:

Remember how beat up Philly was last yr. If they can stay healthy they will push for the division. Seattle being in the playoffs is based off of Russ and Russ only. Cardinals will be better but I think they're a yr away from being legit division winners. Rams I'm not sure about. I think they could win 10 gms or finish last in our division.

Looking at the Rams overall roster, I dont see it. Sure they have Donald and Ramsey on defense and Kupp on offense. But in the trenches is where they're very questionable, minus Donald. And up the middle on defense. And who knows how effective their new DC will be.

Edited April 30, 2020 by 757-NINER

[49erurtaza]

I don't buy this theory but interesting take