2020 Free Agency Thread

[MikeT14]

10 hours ago, e16bball said:

I think the issue is that it’s much more important to find out whether our 1st round pick QB can play than to find out whether a bunch of question mark OTs can play. 

Other teams who have had promising young QBs have invested around them and given them the tools to succeed. Especially in terms of their blind side protector. The Rams went out and got Whitworth for Goff, the Giants just got Thomas for Jones, the Texans got Tunsil for Watson, the Eagles had Peters for Wentz, the Cowboys have had Tyron Smith for Prescott, the Ravens have had Stanley for Lamar, the Browns just got Wills for Mayfield, the Jets just got Becton for Darnold, hell the 49ers went out and got Trent for Garoppolo the same day Staley retired.

And we’re handing Haskins one of Cornelius Lucas, Saahdiq Charles, and Geron Christian. Which one of these is not like the others??

Exactly my point I made somewhere before. Not investing in this better could be a huge hindrance to the growth of Haskins. And someone said "well they can just keep someone back to chip all the time". Sure, but that also takes away an option as well. 

[turtle28]

2 hours ago, MikeT14 said:

Exactly my point I made somewhere before. Not investing in this better could be a huge hindrance to the growth of Haskins. And someone said "well they can just keep someone back to chip all the time". Sure, but that also takes away an option as well. 

Yea, but on the flip side, not allowing your young players a chance to play in the long run hurts your young players development and a young team's development. It doesn’t do the young OL or any of the young players on the team any good to just sit on the bench and not play, they won't develop and won’t  improve w/o playing. We also won't know what we have in any young player at any position if we don't play them. So, if we keep Charles or Christian and Martin on the bench this year instead of them playing over a vet then, we’ll never know what we have in them as a player before their rookie contracts are up.

Edited May 4, 2020 by turtle28

[Skins212689]

6 minutes ago, turtle28 said:

Yea, but on the flip side, not allowing your young players a chance to play in the long run hurts your young players development and a young team's development. It doesn’t do the young OL or any of the young players on the team any good to just sit on the bench and not play, they won't develop and won’t  improve w/o playing. We also won't know what we have in any young player at any position if we don't play them. So, if we keep Charles or Christian and Martin on the bench this year instead of them playing over a vet then, we’ll never know what we have in them as a player before their rookie contracts are up.

They are on 4 year contracts, sitting and learning their 1st year wouldn't hurt like your suggesting. It actually could help them. Yes getting on the field is IMPORTANT, but being Mentally Prepared and Pro Ready is More Important. Just throwing guys straight into the fire doesn't always get the best results. 

Christian for example, if he can't Earn a Starting Spot this year that should say something about him not about them Needing to Sign or Draft someone to Replace him. 

[turtle28]

58 minutes ago, Skins212689 said:

They are on 4 year contracts, sitting and learning their 1st year wouldn't hurt like your suggesting. It actually could help them. Yes getting on the field is IMPORTANT, but being Mentally Prepared and Pro Ready is More Important. Just throwing guys straight into the fire doesn't always get the best results. 

Christian for example, if he can't Earn a Starting Spot this year that should say something about him not about them Needing to Sign or Draft someone to Replace him. 

Any time a young player doesn’t play their development is suppressed or delayed. The best way to learn is to make a mistake and then improve upon that mistake as you are perfecting your craft.

For example, if Aaron Rodgers was drafted by the Redskins or 49ers in 05 instead of the Packers, he would’ve been a starter mid way through the 2006 season instead of having to wait until the 2008 season.
 

His first season he was up and down at times, but if the 49ers or Redskins had drafted him at #1 or 10 he would have been a starter when Brunnell really started to go downhill in 2006, an entire two years sooner. So, Rodgers would’ve have had those young players kinks he had to work out two years earlier than he did. Instead,  he had to wait until eventually he became a starter in the final year of his rookie contract bc he sat behind Favre for 4 years.

Edited May 4, 2020 by turtle28

[ovfd55]

TO me if we could get Jason Peters on a 1 year deal you give him the money ASAP.

He would help Charles become not only a better player but a better Professional,Peters would also help Chase and Sweat in Camp as a good pass blocker to rush against.Best case to me is Charles becomes a LT and Lucas takes Moses job at some point.

To me there little downside to signing Peters,You get blindside help for Haskins, great Vet leadership for a 4th round LT who need to learn there more to being a player then on the field,and if we suck could trade him at deadline for something then let Charles take over. 

[Skins212689]

37 minutes ago, turtle28 said:

Any time a young player doesn’t play their development is suppressed or delayed. The best way to learn is to make a mistake and then improve upon that mistake as you are perfecting your craft.

For example, if Aaron Rodgers was drafted by the Redskins or 49ers in 05 instead of the Packers, he would’ve been a starter mid way through the 2006 season instead of having to wait until the 2008 season.
 

His first season he was up and down at times, but if the 49ers or Redskins had drafted him at 10 he would have been a starter when Brunnell really started to go downhill in 2006, an entire two years sooner. So, Rodgers would’ve have had those young players kinks he had to work out two years earlier than he did. Instead,  he had to wait until eventually he became a starter in the final year of his rookie contract bc he sat behind Favre for 4 years.

Yet you have your Patrick Mahomes stories. Sits 1 year and than is a MVP candidate his 2nd year as a Starter. 3rd year in the league. Me wanting a Alex Smith their for Charles I see no problem with. 

[turtle28]

40 minutes ago, ovfd55 said:

TO me if we could get Jason Peters on a 1 year deal you give him the money ASAP.

He would help Charles become not only a better player but a better Professional,Peters would also help Chase and Sweat in Camp as a good pass blocker to rush against.Best case to me is Charles becomes a LT and Lucas takes Moses job at some point.

To me there little downside to signing Peters,You get blindside help for Haskins, great Vet leadership for a 4th round LT who need to learn there more to being a player then on the field,and if we suck could trade him at deadline for something then let Charles take over. 

I haven't thought about that before. Great point. Like say for example, Charles, Christian or Lucas look good in practice and Donovan Smith is struggling in Tampa, they could trade Peters for a 4th or 5th round pick at the trade deadline.

[turtle28]

7 hours ago, Skins212689 said:

Yet you have your Patrick Mahomes stories. Sits 1 year and than is a MVP candidate his 2nd year as a Starter. 3rd year in the league. Me wanting a Alex Smith their for Charles I see no problem with. 

But there’s no telling that if Mahome had started as a rookie if he would or wouldn't have been as good as a rookie as he was in his second year. Guys who are that talented figure it out and you know right away that they're going to be something special. In Mahomes’ only start as a rookie in week 17 when Andy wanted to rest Alex Smith for the playoffs, Mahomes was 63% for 284 yards, in his first ever NFL regular season action. That's proudly right there that while learning from Alex helped him prepare to be a starter, Mahomes was talented enough to be a starting NFL QB as a rookie. You will know this usually about any player w/in the first year of them starting bc they show flashes. Playing at LSU in the SEC is nearly equivalent to playing in the NFL anyways, I think Charles will be ready to be a starter in year 1.

Take Haskins for example. The previous  head coach didn't want to draft him and they didn't want to develop him to be a starter in year one - bc he still thought McCoy was the answer - so they didn't even coach Haskins.

Then, finally Jay was fired and Callahan was made the interim HC, Dwayne got his first start vs the Bills in week 9 and from there through the end of the season he got better week to week and that was after not being developed all offseason bc Jay didn't want him. 

Edited May 4, 2020 by turtle28

[Skins212689]

4 hours ago, turtle28 said:

But there’s no telling that if Mahome had started as a rookie if he would or wouldn't have been as good as a rookie as he was in his second year. Guys who are that talented figure it out and you know right away that they're going to be something special. In Mahomes’ only start as a rookie in week 17 when Andy wanted to rest Alex Smith for the playoffs, Mahomes was 63% for 284 yards, in his first ever NFL regular season action. That's proudly right there that while learning from Alex helped him prepare to be a starter, Mahomes was talented enough to be a starting NFL QB as a rookie. You will know this usually about any player w/in the first year of them starting bc they show flashes. Playing at LSU in the SEC is nearly equivalent to playing in the NFL anyways, I think Charles will be ready to be a starter in year 1.

Take Haskins for example. The previous  head coach didn't want to draft him and they didn't want to develop him to be a starter in year one - bc he still thought McCoy was the answer - so they didn't even coach Haskins.

Then, finally Jay was fired and Callahan was hired, Dwayne got his first start vs the Bills in week 9 and from there through the end of the season he got better week to week and that was after not being developed all offseason bc Jay didn't want him. 

True, but Charles isn't a 1st round pick. He's a 4th round pick We Need to come in and replace a 7 time Pro Bowl player. I don't understand your issue with me wanting a Better LT their to Protect Haskins. Better LT means it's More Likely Haskins continues his growth instead of taking a step back his second year in the league. Espeically with the affects of Covid-19. 

[naptownskinsfan]

14 hours ago, e16bball said:

Does the “overpay for an average tackle” option include signing Jason Peters or Kelvin Beachum to a one-year contract? If so, sign me up for that one. Don’t know why it has to be some big commitment, or why we would even care if they’re off the roster in a couple seasons — it’s a stopgap measure to make sure our QB stays upright and has a real chance to make progress without hearing footsteps and feeling like guys are breathing down his neck every play. 

And I don’t really understand why you’re treating that option and “take a patient approach and build through the draft” as mutually exclusive. Seems like a bit of a strawman to me, because they have basically no bearing on one another. No one thinks we’re being “impatient” and trying to “rush the process” by having Thomas Davis around on a one-year deal to be a good character guy and a solid veteran bridge to the future SLB we’ll acquire in the next year or two. How would it be any different to do the exact same thing with Jason Peters?

Signing a Peters or a Beachum doesn’t stop us from drafting a Penei Sewell or letting a Charles/Christian play their way into the role, any more than Thomas Davis is preventing us from drafting a Micah Parsons or letting a KPL/Holcomb play their way into his role. All it does is give us some insurance at a premium position, the one most responsible for giving Haskins the time he needs to work through his progressions and grow as a QB. And all it would cost is a portion of the tremendous amount of cap space we’ve hoarded. It’s legitimately mindboggling to me that anyone would be against this.

I'm not opposed to signing someone to a one year deal.  I would've already brought back Donald Penn at this point if I am running the Redskins.  I'm trying to work through what it looks like they are trying to do, and that is evaluate current people here.  

Also, I know that there are ways to scheme to help left-tackles, and you don't necessarily have to have a top one to proceed.  Redskins fans have been spoiled to having them though.  

[e16bball]

5 hours ago, turtle28 said:

I haven't thought about that before. Great point. Like say for example, Charles, Christian or Lucas look good in practice and Donovan Smith is struggling in Tampa, they could trade Peters for a 4th or 5th round pick at the trade deadline.

I mean that’s the other thing, right? He only blocks those guys if they’re not ready to play at the level we need.

No one is playing a 38-year-old on a one-year deal if they’ve got a young kid on the roster who can do the job. I’m sure they hoped Christian would earn the job and push Penn to the bench last year — but he didn’t. And Haskins would have been even more screwed if we hadn’t gone out and gotten Penn. 

If Charles or Christian or Lucas are ready to play LT at the NFL level, that’s excellent. That’s what we’re all hoping for — I guarantee everyone on this forum would love it if Saahdiq Charles turns into a day one star and continues the chain from Chris Samuels and Trent Williams uninterrupted.  If he does, push Peters (or other vet stopgap) to the bench or RT and let the youngun blossom. 

But there’s a very real possibility that none of those three will be ready to play at the level we need. And while it’s important to try to develop these OTs, it’s many times more important to develop Haskins. We need to be prepared for that possibility, in advance, because Haskins is the one who will pay the price if we stay late and gamble on those unproven OTs — and lose. 

Edited May 4, 2020 by e16bball

[ARTMONK HOF]

Pro Bowl Guard Larry Warford was just released by the Saints. I know we have a bunch of o linemen in reserve but no pro bowlers. Interested ?

[HTTRDynasty]

37 minutes ago, ARTMONK HOF said:

Pro Bowl Guard Larry Warford was just released by the Saints. I know we have a bunch of o linemen in reserve but no pro bowlers. Interested ?

I don't think we'll make this move.  We seem to be moving towards a zone-blocking scheme and Warford is one of the biggest and slowest guards in the league.

[turtle28]

On 5/4/2020 at 6:01 PM, e16bball said:

I mean that’s the other thing, right? He only blocks those guys if they’re not ready to play at the level we need.

No one is playing a 38-year-old on a one-year deal if they’ve got a young kid on the roster who can do the job. I’m sure they hoped Christian would earn the job and push Penn to the bench last year — but he didn’t. And Haskins would have been even more screwed if we hadn’t gone out and gotten Penn. 

If Charles or Christian or Lucas are ready to play LT at the NFL level, that’s excellent. That’s what we’re all hoping for — I guarantee everyone on this forum would love it if Saahdiq Charles turns into a day one star and continues the chain from Chris Samuels and Trent Williams uninterrupted.  If he does, push Peters (or other vet stopgap) to the bench or RT and let the youngun blossom. 

But there’s a very real possibility that none of those three will be ready to play at the level we need. And while it’s important to try to develop these OTs, it’s many times more important to develop Haskins. We need to be prepared for that possibility, in advance, because Haskins is the one who will pay the price if we stay late and gamble on those unproven OTs — and lose. 

I still say give the young guys a chance before replacing them with say, Donald Penn. No one is beating down Donald Penn’s door, Jason Peters is still a free agent and Kelvin Beachum - my choice bc of age - is still a FA. I’d give the young 3 guys the chance to prove themselves before signing any of these three.

I also don’t see the 3 OTs being that awful that we can’t function as an offense. Our O probably won’t function like it did when Trent was here - it didn’t always function well last year bc of Penn too - but I just don’t feel the overreaction that any of the 3 we have are going to be so awful that when Haskins drops back every time he’s going to be sacked. It’s not like these guys are UDFAs who don’t have skills.

[turtle28]

1 minute ago, HTTRDynasty said:

I don't think we'll make this move.  We seem to be moving towards a zone-blocking scheme and Warford is one of the biggest and slowest guards in the league.

Yeah, I was going to say the same.