2020 Free Agency Thread

[ripsean21]

1 minute ago, turtle28 said:

We already have the vet in Cornelius Lucas. I see no reason to sign anyone else at this point. We have Moses and Lucas as our vets, Christian developing still - hopefully getting stronger to match his athleticism - and the best player of them all may be the 4th round OT we just took, Charles.

And I’m okay with that. If we sign a older version id say it’s because we have no offseason

[turtle28]

9 minutes ago, MikeT14 said:

My concern is if this goes south, you might kill Dwayne too.

I don't think it's that dire. It's not like we have guys who can't play at all, they're not Trent Williams but they're not that much worse then Penn was last year - if they're even worse them at all.

On top of that, at some point we have to make a leap like this anyways with our LT position when we're going go have a journeyman or rookie probably being our starter. It seems like no better time than now then to try these 3 guys out to see if you might have a long term option. We are going to have to do it eventually anyway

People don't really realize how spoiled we were for 18 of the last 20 years when we had Samuels and then Trent right after him.

Edited May 1, 2020 by turtle28

[MikeT14]

22 minutes ago, turtle28 said:

People don't really realize how spoiled we were for 18 of the last 20 years when we had Samuels and then Trent right after him.

I get that, we were spoiled. The problem is that we are about to become unspoiled at a terrible time when our 2nd year QB needs to make a big jump.

[turtle28]

24 minutes ago, MikeT14 said:

I get that, we were spoiled. The problem is that we are about to become unspoiled at a terrible time when our 2nd year QB needs to make a big jump.

I get it, but it is what it is. For some reason they chose to sign Lucas over an established LT still in his prime like Kelvin Beachum or over re-signing Penn. Maybe bc of the age of Lucas and they liked what he showed on film plus his size/athleticism is impressive and he gave up zero sacks last year.

I trust Kyle, Ron & the OL coach to know better than me on that evaluation, I just know Beachum has been solid since he was drafted by Pitt, he was solid for the Jets too and obviously Penn was solid for us too last year.

I just think the Lucas signing for OT is the only one that they’ll make, so don't see another one but I could be wrong. And, I think with almost the entire team being young it's good too look to the future too and give Charles or even Christian - if he gets stronger & improves - every opportunity to win that job before bringing Penn back. Penn is one of those established vets that can be called a week or two before the season and he ready to go - like last year - if the situation is that dire bc Charles, Christian & Lucas don't look like the answer. But, the time to sign Penn isn't now IMO, that's a last resort signing  in August IMO.

Edited May 1, 2020 by turtle28

[naptownskinsfan]

On 5/1/2020 at 1:03 PM, MikeT14 said:

I get that, we were spoiled. The problem is that we are about to become unspoiled at a terrible time when our 2nd year QB needs to make a big jump.

They are implementing zone-blocking system, so I can imagine they want everyone together for the long haul instead of signing a stop gap.  I also don't see how a stop gap fits with the current group.  

ZBS could also help Haskins as far as the running game taking some pressure off him, and getting off some quicker passes instead of dropping back quite a bit.  

Also, you can scheme to help the LT.  Have TE or RB chip, or stick in for pass protection.  Move the pocket.  Not every team has an elite LT.  We also have a more than competent right side of the line, so we can afford to run things to help out the left side. 

[naptownskinsfan]

 

[turtle28]

1 hour ago, naptownskinsfan said:

They are implementing zone-blocking system, so I can imagine they want everyone together for the long haul instead of signing a stop gap.  I also don't see how a stop gap fits with the current group.  

ZBS could also help Haskins as far as the running game taking some pressure off him, and getting off some quicker passes instead of dropping back quite a bit.  

Also, you can scheme to help the LT.  Have TE or RB chip, or stick in for pass protection.  Move the pocket.  Not every team has an elite LT.  We also have a more than competent right side of the line, so we can afford to run things to help out the left side. 

Great point! I forgot about that, that should help our running game out a lot and as you said it should help Haskins out as well.

[e16bball]

I genuinely don’t understand how we would NOT  be signing a stopgap OT.

Our current options at LT consist of Cornelius Lucas, a 29-year-old journeyman who has never played LT in his NFL career; Geron Christian, a guy who has played a handful of snaps in two seasons and is considered by most to be on track to be a bust; and Saahdiq Charles, a rookie who came off the board after eleven other college OTs. 

Who is certain there’s a competent NFL LT in that group? Anyone? We’re sending Haskins out there with his career on the line, and we have no idea if there’s a guy on the roster who can actually protect his blind side. Let alone two guys, which recent years have taught us will probably be necessary at several OL spots.

It just really makes no sense to me. We have cap space on top of cap space, so there’s basically no limitation there. And if one of these three guys proves capable of holding down the starting LT spot, great! That’s the dream. But why would you not take precautions, in the form of a player that you know can actually play this position, at this level?

[naptownskinsfan]

21 minutes ago, e16bball said:

I genuinely don’t understand how we would NOT  be signing a stopgap OT.

Our current options at LT consist of Cornelius Lucas, a 29-year-old journeyman who has never played LT in his NFL career; Geron Christian, a guy who has played a handful of snaps in two seasons and is considered by most to be on track to be a bust; and Saahdiq Charles, a rookie who came off the board after eleven other college OTs. 

Who is certain there’s a competent NFL LT in that group? Anyone? We’re sending Haskins out there with his career on the line, and we have no idea if there’s a guy on the roster who can actually protect his blind side. Let alone two guys, which recent years have taught us will probably be necessary at several OL spots.

It just really makes no sense to me. We have cap space on top of cap space, so there’s basically no limitation there. And if one of these three guys proves capable of holding down the starting LT spot, great! That’s the dream. But why would you not take precautions, in the form of a player that you know can actually play this position, at this level?

It's not that I don't think it's the best decision, but the moves that the team is making point to it being that way.  

I try to frame things in reference to what the team is doing/projected to do based off their history of decision-making.  That way, I am less disappointed in the actual outcomes when they happen.  

[e16bball]

I mean, Rivera has said they’re still looking into FA tackles, so I don’t know why we’d think it’s unlikely. It’s a glaring problem at a premium position, I’m sure they see it. And I would think as reasonable people, they have to feel some degree of pressure to address it.

They keep talking up Charles, but here’s my thing. If they think this guy is a plug-and-play quality Week 1 starter at LT, why didn’t they value him over the gadget RB in the 3rd? Why didn’t they trade back up into the 3rd to secure him, instead of risking that he would get poached by the many shrewd teams drafting shortly before our pick in the 4th, all of whom could always use more OT depth? You have a kid who doesn’t turn 21 until late July, everyone thinks he has the potential to become an LT, you also think he can play there right now — and you’re just sitting there hoping he drops to pick 108? 

It doesn’t make sense to me. I hope they’re right, and I’d love him to develop into a great one, but I they’re trying to hard to over-sell him after the Trent debacle. I don’t think he’s likely ready to be a decent week one starter at LT, especially with no offseason. And I damn sure don’t think Christian or Lucas appear to be that. 

[naptownskinsfan]

49 minutes ago, e16bball said:

I mean, Rivera has said they’re still looking into FA tackles, so I don’t know why we’d think it’s unlikely. It’s a glaring problem at a premium position, I’m sure they see it. And I would think as reasonable people, they have to feel some degree of pressure to address it.

They keep talking up Charles, but here’s my thing. If they think this guy is a plug-and-play quality Week 1 starter at LT, why didn’t they value him over the gadget RB in the 3rd? Why didn’t they trade back up into the 3rd to secure him, instead of risking that he would get poached by the many shrewd teams drafting shortly before our pick in the 4th, all of whom could always use more OT depth? You have a kid who doesn’t turn 21 until late July, everyone thinks he has the potential to become an LT, you also think he can play there right now — and you’re just sitting there hoping he drops to pick 108? 

It doesn’t make sense to me. I hope they’re right, and I’d love him to develop into a great one, but I they’re trying to hard to over-sell him after the Trent debacle. I don’t think he’s likely ready to be a decent week one starter at LT, especially with no offseason. And I damn sure don’t think Christian or Lucas appear to be that. 

I completely get it.  We will see what they decide to do.  I will say, we need to find out soon if Christian can hang, and I even think that's going to be a pre-season move if he can't.  

In regards to Charles, they did a ton of homework on him before the draft.  If they thought he was at risk of going before them, I think they would've made a trade.  

[ripsean21]

13 minutes ago, naptownskinsfan said:

I completely get it.  We will see what they decide to do.  I will say, we need to find out soon if Christian can hang, and I even think that's going to be a pre-season move if he can't.  

In regards to Charles, they did a ton of homework on him before the draft.  If they thought he was at risk of going before them, I think they would've made a trade.  

Right. I think the word was day 3 because his past and we picked second. Cincy could have taken him but I think after last year Zac Taylor wanted safe high character guys with this haul

[taylor made]

1 hour ago, e16bball said:

I mean, Rivera has said they’re still looking into FA tackles, so I don’t know why we’d think it’s unlikely. It’s a glaring problem at a premium position, I’m sure they see it. And I would think as reasonable people, they have to feel some degree of pressure to address it.

They keep talking up Charles, but here’s my thing. If they think this guy is a plug-and-play quality Week 1 starter at LT, why didn’t they value him over the gadget RB in the 3rd? Why didn’t they trade back up into the 3rd to secure him, instead of risking that he would get poached by the many shrewd teams drafting shortly before our pick in the 4th, all of whom could always use more OT depth? You have a kid who doesn’t turn 21 until late July, everyone thinks he has the potential to become an LT, you also think he can play there right now — and you’re just sitting there hoping he drops to pick 108? 

It doesn’t make sense to me. I hope they’re right, and I’d love him to develop into a great one, but I they’re trying to hard to over-sell him after the Trent debacle. I don’t think he’s likely ready to be a decent week one starter at LT, especially with no offseason. And I damn sure don’t think Christian or Lucas appear to be that. 

Hindsight is 20/20 but I think the team blew it by not trading up ahead of the Vikings for LT Ezra Cleveland in the draft. It wouldn't have been that costly moving up 10 spots. Especially if they are transitioning towards a ZBS. This would have done three things: secured a potential LT with elite athletic talent, forced the Vikings not to have a future left tackle prospect and it would have increased Trent Williams' trade value. If we landed either LT Ezra Cleveland and/or IOL Matt Hennesey I would have felt a lot more comfortable with our offensive line moving forward.

Edited May 3, 2020 by taylor made

[turtle28]

1 hour ago, e16bball said:

I mean, Rivera has said they’re still looking into FA tackles, so I don’t know why we’d think it’s unlikely. It’s a glaring problem at a premium position, I’m sure they see it. And I would think as reasonable people, they have to feel some degree of pressure to address it.

They keep talking up Charles, but here’s my thing. If they think this guy is a plug-and-play quality Week 1 starter at LT, why didn’t they value him over the gadget RB in the 3rd? Why didn’t they trade back up into the 3rd to secure him, instead of risking that he would get poached by the many shrewd teams drafting shortly before our pick in the 4th, all of whom could always use more OT depth? You have a kid who doesn’t turn 21 until late July, everyone thinks he has the potential to become an LT, you also think he can play there right now — and you’re just sitting there hoping he drops to pick 108? 

It doesn’t make sense to me. I hope they’re right, and I’d love him to develop into a great one, but I they’re trying to hard to over-sell him after the Trent debacle. I don’t think he’s likely ready to be a decent week one starter at LT, especially with no offseason. And I damn sure don’t think Christian or Lucas appear to be that. 

They didn’t draft a LT until they had moved Trent. That’s what I have seen and I got the feeling that they were taking that approach all off-season, that’s why they didn’t make a move to sign Jack Conklin or other higher level OTs either. They never counted on Trent not being on the team until they finally traded him from the roster.

After they traded Trent, what was the first pick? A LT prospect, a coincidence, I think not. Also, why trade up when you don’t think you need to and they didn’t end up needing to? That seems like an odd point to make...

Edited May 3, 2020 by turtle28

[Skins212689]

2 hours ago, turtle28 said:

They didn’t draft a LT until they had moved Trent. That’s what I have seen and I got the feeling that they were taking that approach all off-season, that’s why they didn’t make a move to sign Jack Conklin or other higher level OTs either. They never counted on Trent not being on the team until they finally traded him from the roster.

After they traded Trent, what was the first pick? A LT prospect, a coincidence, I think not. Also, why trade up when you don’t think you need to and they didn’t end up needing to? That seems like an odd point to make...

And this is where you have to question the coaches decision to head that route. Counting on Charles, Lucas, and Christian isn't too smart. Regardless of how much work they put in on Charles and the fact Lucas started some games last year.