Kip Smithers Posted September 21, 2017 Share Posted September 21, 2017 1 hour ago, Hunter2_1 said: Snap to release. Rodgers would probably be low on that, given how long he lets it develop. That's completely different to release quickness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hunter2_1 Posted September 22, 2017 Share Posted September 22, 2017 9 hours ago, Kip Smithers said: That's completely different to release quickness. Good job i didn't say 'release quickness' then isn't it. Brady hasn't even got the quickest action on our team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
strat1080 Posted September 24, 2017 Share Posted September 24, 2017 On 9/17/2017 at 11:19 PM, TransientTexan said: idk. debatable. It's not like Arod has played great in all the GB playoff losses either. I don't think it really is debatable. Somehow the Colts consistently fielded better defenses during Manning's tenure than the Packers during Rodgers tenure despite the Colts investing a lot of 1st round picks on offensive skill positions for Peyton. On the other hand the Packers year after year throw 1st round picks at the defense and they just don't really seem to pan out. So you can say that defensively its a wash but look at all that talent on offense for the Colts all those years. Harrison, James, Clark, James, Adai. All those guys were 1st round picks. Has Aaron Rodgers really ever had a WR that could compare to Harrison or Wayne? A RB that can compare to James (12th all time leading rusher)? Not really. None of Aaron Rodgers skills position players have ever been awarded 1st team All-Pro honors. In the meantime. Harrison was a 1st team All Pro three times. Wayne was awarded 1st team All Pro in 2010 and James was 1st team All Pro twice. 1st team All Pro is a big deal. Now onto your second point. You really need to do some research. Aaron Rodgers has started 16 playoff games and has amassed 36 TDs, 10 INTs, a 99.4 passer rating and a 9-7 record. In his 7 playoff losses his team gave up 36 PPG. Peyton Manning started 27 playoff games and amassed 40 TDs, 25 INTs, a 87.4 passer rating and a 14-13 record. In his 13 losses his team gave up 27 PPG. Clearly, in the playoffs, Aaron Rodgers has been the better player and overall the Colts have been the better all around team and field more consistent defenses in the playoffs. The actual level of individual QB play between Rodgers and Manning in the playoffs is not even close. Rodgers has played about as well as he has in the regular season in the playoffs while Manning clearly regressed in the playoffs. The Packers with Aaron Rodgers have never failed to score at least 20 points in a playoff game. The Colts failed to score 20 points 8 times with Manning at QB and 3 times failed to score 10 points. You clearly don't know what you are talking about or attempting to rewrite football history. Aaron Rodgers played poorly in his first two NFC Title games but other than that has been serviceable to spectacular. Peyton Manning has actually had quite a few playoff stinkers where the offense just didn't even show up to the game. Manning was basically mediocre in four Super Bowls. 3 TDs and 5 INTs. Aaron Rodgers had 3 TDs and 0 INTs in his one and only Super Bowl appearance against the #1 defense in the NFL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
strat1080 Posted September 24, 2017 Share Posted September 24, 2017 On 9/18/2017 at 4:14 AM, Hunter2_1 said: It is great. Means even more prolonged success so that we can continue to see obscure stats like "EP..." that are designed to discredit a member of our successful team, despite the thread not being about our team, at all... In all seriousness though, it's obvious that BB creates the best possible environment for all involved, but especially Brady. When you have an all-timer like Brady, you need to let him flourish. That said, we really haven't had a running game since....erm...2004? We never have receivers that are considered top 10 in the league (last one was Moss). Manning had Harrison, Wayne, Thomas (all considered at least top 10 or 5). Rodgers has Nelson (once considered top 5) and a top 10 OL, plus he's enjoyed good running games before. Usually we have a good defense, usually have solid ST, a competent OL and mismatch weapons. But of course Brady has had Gronk for quite some time now. He's oft-injured but then again is Nelson so I would call it a wash. The big difference is in defensive competence. The Patriots don't give up 40 points in playoff games. Aaron Rodgers is 9-7 in the playoffs in those 7 losses his defense has given up 36 PPG. That to me is the main difference. When the Patriots are playing in the playoffs you can be sure that they are going to have a sound game plan that is executed well in all 3 phases of the game. The Packers defense under Dom Capers consistently gets torched. They have given up historical milestones to opposing offenses in the playoffs. 5 TDs and 4 incompletions to Warner. They gave up the most rushing yards ever by a QB and almost 600 overall yards to Kaepernick and SF. They gave up 37 points to Eli and the Giants and struggled to get off the field all day in that game. They gave up 392 yards and 4 TDs and 44 points to Matt Ryan and the Falcons last year. Those are just 4 of the 7 playoff games that Rodgers has lost. The Packers gave up a whopping 44 PPG. That Chiefs game to start to the year this year for the Patriots is basically a microcosm of the Packers in the playoffs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hunter2_1 Posted September 24, 2017 Share Posted September 24, 2017 2 hours ago, strat1080 said: But of course Brady has had Gronk for quite some time now. He's oft-injured but then again is Nelson so I would call it a wash. The big difference is in defensive competence. The Patriots don't give up 40 points in playoff games. Aaron Rodgers is 9-7 in the playoffs in those 7 losses his defense has given up 36 PPG. That to me is the main difference. When the Patriots are playing in the playoffs you can be sure that they are going to have a sound game plan that is executed well in all 3 phases of the game. The Packers defense under Dom Capers consistently gets torched. They have given up historical milestones to opposing offenses in the playoffs. 5 TDs and 4 incompletions to Warner. They gave up the most rushing yards ever by a QB and almost 600 overall yards to Kaepernick and SF. They gave up 37 points to Eli and the Giants and struggled to get off the field all day in that game. They gave up 392 yards and 4 TDs and 44 points to Matt Ryan and the Falcons last year. Those are just 4 of the 7 playoff games that Rodgers has lost. The Packers gave up a whopping 44 PPG. That Chiefs game to start to the year this year for the Patriots is basically a microcosm of the Packers in the playoffs. That is pretty brutal. Got to give your all world QB a good defense to lean on. I would say this about Brady though, he has by far the best record when defense gives up over 30. Might be a rare occurrence, but this is a stat that Brady is an entirely didn't ether with. It's not even close to the second best (Manning). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lancerman Posted September 24, 2017 Share Posted September 24, 2017 Don't want to hear about Brady's great oline. He's bailed them out for years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darkness Posted September 24, 2017 Author Share Posted September 24, 2017 Leave it to the Packers to breath life back into the troubled Bengals Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lancerman Posted September 24, 2017 Share Posted September 24, 2017 1 minute ago, Darkness said: Leave it to the Packers to breath life back into the troubled Bengals Rodgers sure is lighting them up Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norm Posted September 25, 2017 Share Posted September 25, 2017 They were just trolling in the first half because they saw this thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
incognito_man Posted September 25, 2017 Share Posted September 25, 2017 6 hours ago, Darkness said: Leave it to the Packers to breath life back into the troubled Bengals are the raiders wasting carr's prime? yeesh, that was ugly, eh? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TransientTexan Posted September 25, 2017 Share Posted September 25, 2017 22 hours ago, strat1080 said: I don't think it really is debatable. Somehow the Colts consistently fielded better defenses during Manning's tenure than the Packers during Rodgers tenure I disagree. Both teams' defenses have had some good years and some bad years. ---------------------------------PPG---PPG Rk---Yd/G---Yd/G Rk---Yd/play---Yd/play Rk---Sc%---SC% Rk---TO%---TO% Rk Colts w/ Manning: 21.4-----15.5------328.5------17.4--------5.3------------19.4-------33.77-----20.5-----14.5----15.3 Packers w/ Capers: 21.2-----13.9------346.4------15.9--------5.5------------17.6-------32.80-----15.5-----15.3------9.5 So not only is GB's ranking higher in almost all cases, their actual stats are higher despite that median offensive production accross the league has gone up, making it harder to play defense. Defensive stats: -----------------------------------------PPG---Yd/G---Yd/play---Sc%---TO% NFL median/1999-2010: 21.0----325.9----5.14-----30.90---13.86 NFL median/2009-2016: 22.4----344.7----5.38-----33.33---12.62 22 hours ago, strat1080 said: On the other hand the Packers year after year throw 1st round picks at the defense and they just don't really seem to pan out. Sure, they've had some that didn't work out like DJones and Randall. But others like Perry & HHCD have. (too early to grade the most recent picks). if you are expecting higher "hit" rates, you clearly did not do your own research at all. The odds of a late-1st rounder being a long-time starter are only 55-60%. And that's not even saying a guy's a *good* longtime starter. I'm sure the odds for that are even less. 22 hours ago, strat1080 said: Harrison, James, Clark, James, Adai GB has had plenty of offensive talent: G.Jennings, J.Nelson, R.Cobb, E.Lacy, R.Grant. Maybe their peaks don't match the Colts guys, but there is pretty good quantity there. & there is more to the NFL than skill positions. B.Bulaga, D.Bakhtiari, TJ Lang, J.Sitton all good players. And of course plenty of other good players I left off this list from the previous regime. 22 hours ago, strat1080 said: Now onto your second point. You really need to do some research. Aaron Rodgers has started 16 playoff games and has amassed 36 TDs, 10 INTs, a 99.4 passer rating and a 9-7 record. In his 7 playoff losses his team gave up 36 PPG. Peyton Manning started 27 playoff games and amassed 40 TDs, 25 INTs, a 87.4 passer rating and a 14-13 record. In his 13 losses his team gave up 27 PPG. Clearly, in the playoffs, Aaron Rodgers has been the better player and overall the Colts have been the better all around team and field more consistent defenses in the playoffs. The actual level of individual QB play between Rodgers and Manning in the playoffs is not even close. Rodgers has played about as well as he has in the regular season in the playoffs while Manning clearly regressed in the playoffs. When you're done refuting strawman arguments, try and address the actual point I stated. I did not say Rodgers has played badly throughout the playoffs. I did not say the defense played well in all the GB playoff losses. I did not say Manning has played better in the playoffs than Arod. I said Arod and the offense have played badly in some of the Green Bay playoff losses. certain fans act like GB is always losing shootouts in the playoffs, but that's really a false narrative. in fact, 3 of the last 4 years, the defense has played well in the knockout game, with the points allowed in regulation being 23, 22, and 20 (against teams that averaged 25.4, 24.6, & 30.6 ppg, respectively). If you knew that the defense would do that going into the game, you'd have to feel pretty good about your chances of the offense outscoring that in at least one of the 3 times. Last 4 knockout games, GB offense has averaged 20.8ppg. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lancerman Posted September 25, 2017 Share Posted September 25, 2017 Is Mike McCarthy's prime being wasted by Aaron Rodgers. Seriously though, sometimes the team lets a great game by Rodgers get away from them. Sometimes Rodgers has an off day or plays poorly for a good chunk of the game and then can't do enough to rally back. Against Seattle in 2014 the defense practically handed Rodgers the game with amount of turnovers they got off the Seahawks and the Packers just never capitalized enough when they should have routed them and let it stay close enough for one mistake to finish them. Rodgers did not play good enough that day to say he deserved the win in spite of the team. And I realize he was hurt that day, but he just simply did not play good enough for the narrative to be about how he got screwed. Last year, yeah the Falcons abused the Packers defense. You know what though, the Packers offense really didn't do anything. They weren't sustaining any drives, they weren't scoring often until the game was already out of hand, so a big part of that was the Packers offense inability to overcome the Falcons defense. Rodgers also didn't play well against the Falcons this time around. In 2011 the Packers offense was unreal. No idea why they couldn't score more than two TD's and two field goals vs the Giants, but Rodgers and the Packers came out flat. Yeah in 2015 you can say Rodgers played good enough that you can make the claim he deserved to win in spite of his team. You can't always say that for all their playoff losses. He's one of the best in the league and one of the best ever. But he's not infallible and he's not always getting screwed by his team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
incognito_man Posted September 25, 2017 Share Posted September 25, 2017 45 minutes ago, tonyto36 said: Isn't he also something like 1-40 when asked to throw 50 or more times in a game? He is like 0-60 in games that the other team scored more than his team. That's the most telling stat of all. Brady is like 35-35. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpeightTheVillain Posted September 25, 2017 Share Posted September 25, 2017 47 minutes ago, tonyto36 said: Oh come on. Are you really trying to suggest that throw count vs win % has no correlation or value at all? It certainly has correlation but has no value. You throw more because your down a lot. So Rodgers has thrown 50+ times a game only because they are way behind. So yeah, he loses those games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pats#1 Posted September 25, 2017 Share Posted September 25, 2017 2 hours ago, SpeightTheVillain said: It certainly has correlation but has no value. You throw more because your down a lot. So Rodgers has thrown 50+ times a game only because they are way behind. So yeah, he loses those games. Is that proven to be the case? I'm honestly asking. Seems like lack of a run game and/or simple game planning could be a factor as well. The couple times Brady threw a bunch in the playoffs wasn't necessarily because they were down a lot, but because he had zero help from his RBs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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