ET80 Posted February 19, 2020 Share Posted February 19, 2020 16 minutes ago, ramssuperbowl99 said: And in particular, new NFL players are thrown into a CBA that had no representation for them during negotiations and that they never agreed to. Curious - how is this any different than any collectively bargained situation? If I'm an electrical worker, I can't really do much unless I'm with the IBEW - and those rules of engagement with the union were built up before I got there. 18 minutes ago, ramssuperbowl99 said: If, hypothetically, the response to that is "well they got screwed for the overall good of the game", then it should come with the awareness that they are getting screwed and it's reasonable/expected that not everyone is going to take that lying down. My only response would be to find another line of work. Playing football is a privilege, not a right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ramssuperbowl99 Posted February 19, 2020 Share Posted February 19, 2020 Just now, MWil23 said: @animaltested I do understand your overall point, especially in that these players are being "represented" by a union agreement that they haven't signed/agreed to (contract, benefits, etc.) in addition to not having a say where they land, and as a result, there's not a "market value"/negotiation in place for them right away. However, I'm also saying that I'm not going to, nor should I, feel bad/empathize with someone in that situation that will make more money in 2-5 years than I will in 20-30, and I came out of college in one of the worst recessions ever. Just like I don't think Ryan Tannehill is a "feel good story". The dude was making 8 figures in Miami holding a clip board after underachieving. That argument cuts both ways. There's a difference between outright feeling bad for Joe Burrow (which I'm pretty sure no one does) and recognizing why he has a legitimate reason to be ticked off. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MWil23 Posted February 19, 2020 Share Posted February 19, 2020 Just now, ramssuperbowl99 said: There's a difference between outright feeling bad for Joe Burrow (which I'm pretty sure no one does) and recognizing why he has a legitimate reason to be ticked off. Change "ticked off" to slightly irritated soon to be 24 year old multi-millionaire who is doomed to be inconvenienced after having very little to no say about his employer/city of employment for the next 5-6 years of his life and I'll agree with you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ramssuperbowl99 Posted February 19, 2020 Share Posted February 19, 2020 Just now, ET80 said: Curious - how is this any different than any collectively bargained situation? If I'm an electrical worker, I can't really do much unless I'm with the IBEW - and those rules of engagement with the union were built up before I got there. I think it's up to each union whether they represent non-union members or not. I'm not an expert, you'd have to ask a lawyer. I would, but I hate lawyers. Just now, ET80 said: My only response would be to find another line of work. Playing football is a privilege, not a right. And this is wrong - football is a monopoly. When the NFL got an anti-trust exemption from Congress, they gave up the right to say "my way or the highway". 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ET80 Posted February 19, 2020 Share Posted February 19, 2020 2 minutes ago, ramssuperbowl99 said: Did you stop watching the NFL because Tom Brady took a huge paycut year after year? Because that really isn't that much different than what Dwayne Wade did to get the cap space to sign LeBron James and Chris Bosh in the first place. Functionally, he didn't take a paycut - he restructured his contract to where his cap hit was spread out over multiple years vs an immediate blow. He still got paid that money, the accounting behind it was all that was altered. Now, had those moves been to sign a prime Adrian Peterson and Andre Johnson, and those two took subsequent pay cuts to play with Brady, I might have taken issue. 6 minutes ago, ramssuperbowl99 said: How about when the Patriots traded nothing for Randy Moss because he wanted out of Oakland and would have thrown a tantrum anywhere else? I wasn't a fan of that, but it was a calculated risk that eventually lived up the initial expectation of Moss becoming a malcontent and getting cut from NE. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MWil23 Posted February 19, 2020 Share Posted February 19, 2020 Just now, ramssuperbowl99 said: I think it's up to each union whether they represent non-union members or not. I'm not an expert, you'd have to ask a lawyer. I would, but I hate lawyers. "Right to Work" is a very complicated and polarizing piece of legislation. Speaking as a union rep for a school, I can tell you that we negotiate and collectively bargain (money, benefits, etc.) on behalf of all employees, even those not in the union. However, they are not entitled to union representation/legal defense. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MWil23 Posted February 19, 2020 Share Posted February 19, 2020 2 minutes ago, ramssuperbowl99 said: And this is wrong - football is a monopoly. When the NFL got an anti-trust exemption from Congress, they gave up the right to say "my way or the highway". History/Political Science teacher here. I concur. #TheGildedAge 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ET80 Posted February 19, 2020 Share Posted February 19, 2020 3 minutes ago, ramssuperbowl99 said: And this is wrong - football is a monopoly. When the NFL got an anti-trust exemption from Congress, they gave up the right to say "my way or the highway". Would this apply to who they allow in and how they allow them in? Wouldn't you have to openly demonstrate an act of collusion to have a leg to stand on in this sort of argument? (Heck, even if you DO demonstrate collusion in this fashion... I'll stop there). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hukos Posted February 19, 2020 Share Posted February 19, 2020 2 minutes ago, ramssuperbowl99 said: And this is wrong - football is a monopoly. When the NFL got an anti-trust exemption from Congress, they gave up the right to say "my way or the highway". The NFL would probably collapse without such an exemption - it'd be illegal for the NFL to stop teams from making their own NFL teams and having them be admitted into the league. Teams started and failing rapidly would be a bad look. This is also why takes like "well if you hit a guy in real life like you hit a guy in football you'd be in prison" takes are so dumb. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MWil23 Posted February 19, 2020 Share Posted February 19, 2020 1 minute ago, ET80 said: Would this apply to who they allow in and how they allow them in? Wouldn't you have to openly demonstrate an act of collusion to have a leg to stand on in this sort of argument? (Heck, even if you DO demonstrate collusion in this fashion... I'll stop there). "The NFL is a private business (monologue)..." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SmittyBacall Posted February 19, 2020 Share Posted February 19, 2020 55 minutes ago, animaltested said: Joe Burrow has the skills that literally about 30 MAYBE in the world have. Skills that directly contribute to a multibillion dollar industry. Skills that will directly result in millions more in revenue for the team involved. Why do you sound like Liam Neeson from “Taken”? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ramssuperbowl99 Posted February 19, 2020 Share Posted February 19, 2020 (edited) 4 minutes ago, ET80 said: Would this apply to who they allow in and how they allow them in? Wouldn't you have to openly demonstrate an act of collusion to have a leg to stand on in this sort of argument? (Heck, even if you DO demonstrate collusion in this fashion... I'll stop there). Yes, it applies to who they let in. That was the basis of Colin Kaepernick's lawsuit, and while the bar could be high to prove collusion against a specific player, as we saw the NFL doesn't want to go to discovery. In the case of the NFL draft in general, it'd be a lot easier than needing Jim Irsay to write a coked-out e-mail. The NFL draft is collusion from the teams: each team is agreeing with the other teams that they will only negotiate with the guys they draft. Edited February 19, 2020 by ramssuperbowl99 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
animaltested Posted February 19, 2020 Share Posted February 19, 2020 11 minutes ago, ET80 said: I guess I'm different - I really fell off the NBA when guys started to lump themselves together. It could be exclusive to me, but I think a few people felt the same way. I guess that's where we would encounter some tactical issues on how to do this. What's the protocol if you have a year like 2011, where All Pro talent was found all over the first round, into the 2nd round and as late as the 5th round? What about 2013, when everyone was pretty much an average player? I would personally have concerns with that - where's the cutoff point, how do you determine that cutoff point, and how do you explain that rationale to the person immediately on the other side of that cutoff point? There wouldn't be a cutoff point. I was saying logistically, only the elite players (or players with other options) would have the ability to leverage themselves out of a draft slot. MLB draft worked this way for a long time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ET80 Posted February 19, 2020 Share Posted February 19, 2020 1 minute ago, animaltested said: There wouldn't be a cutoff point. I was saying logistically, only the elite players (or players with other options) would have the ability to leverage themselves out of a draft slot. MLB draft worked this way for a long time. How would you define elite player in this exercise? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ramssuperbowl99 Posted February 19, 2020 Share Posted February 19, 2020 (edited) 6 minutes ago, Hukos said: The NFL would probably collapse without such an exemption - it'd be illegal for the NFL to stop teams from making their own NFL teams and having them be admitted into the league. Teams started and failing rapidly would be a bad look. This is also why takes like "well if you hit a guy in real life like you hit a guy in football you'd be in prison" takes are so dumb. I'm not arguing against the anti-trust exemption from the NFL - I agree the product is better with it. I'm not even arguing against the NFL draft. All I'm arguing is that a reasonable adult should be able to look at a situation where someone could have 32 job offers but is forced to only accept one because of a deal he never agreed to and was never represented in, and find some capacity to understand why he might be pissed off about it. Edited February 19, 2020 by ramssuperbowl99 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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