MikeT14 Posted March 2, 2020 Share Posted March 2, 2020 3 minutes ago, MKnight82 said: Ya but the Vikings have no cap space to extend Trent. At this moment, yes. But they can get under relatively easily. Hell, Griffen opting out helped out immensely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MKnight82 Posted March 2, 2020 Share Posted March 2, 2020 15 hours ago, Thaiphoon said: What specifically did Bruce and the team mishandle about his cancer diagnosis? Not an injury diagnosis and treatment...the cancer diagnosis. Because THAT is allegedly (according to Trent and his sources) the original raison d'etre for his holdout. You're trying to shoebox a complicated situation into a simple answer. There were likely MULTIPLE reasons Trent Williams didn't play for the Redskins last season. One thing that really gripes me though, is you're accusing Trent of acting nefariously towards these doctors and assuming he's using them as leverage to get money (and yes they are all assumptions on your part, there is no proof he has done this). Trent Williams had cancer, that is scary as hell. At his age it must have been shocking, and its the kind of diagnosis that can shake the very foundation of families (Trent is almost certainly the pillar of his family). Trent Williams is also an employee of a multi-billion corporation. Do I care at all if he's trying to get a few more million dollars out of the billionaire owner? No I do not. Now do I want to use all of our cap up on an aging LT that wants to be paid big bucks? No I don't, but that is a football debate, I'm not attacking Trent's moral character. There is nothing wrong with Trent Williams asking for more money. And because Trent is just an employee, it was NOT his responsibility to remedy this situation. Bruce Allen was the head of the organization and should have done something about this before it ever got this bad. But he didn't, and that's because he's a piece of crap. Bruce treated his employees like slaves, told them to shut and and do what they were told and Trent was having none of that. Trent Williams is a HERO for sitting out last year and helping facilitate change in this organization. The front office was toxic, an embarrassment, and had the gal to be smug about it. You guys should be thanking Trent not attacking him. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tredaddy Posted March 2, 2020 Share Posted March 2, 2020 10 hours ago, naptownskinsfan said: I just made a post about this and should've just deferred to this. Williams knows that most fans aren't going to have a clue about who does what for an NFL team. He also knows that the Redskins have had a lot of injuries the past couple years, and that the media has helped point some of the criticism to Larry Hess before all of this went down. So it's not a stretch to get the average fan thinking that Larry Hess has something to do with non-football related issues. It's a well-designed ploy, and I just hope that Rivera has enough integrity to realize the ploy and just send him away. Culture has to start somewhere, and not allowing someone back who is manipulating things like this is where culture starts. As I said in my post, it's an integrity issue for me right now. So he's not a distraction, it's best to part ways at this point and move on. And look, I want to be sympathetic to Williams here. Chances are, we all know someone right now who is affected by cancer. At the least, we've all know someone whose had it. It sucks. But from all I've read, they continued to encourage him to get a second opinion- because orthopedics aren't oncologists- and he didn't do it. So he needs to shoulder some of the blame here. And for me, shouldering the blame is to play this season under the current contract and not make a peep about things moving forward. But he's already made his move. Time for Rivera to respond. lol Trent has kept his head down and played at an All Pro level for YEARS through the sh**storm we've gone through as a fan base over the past decade. Never complained about anyone or caused any sort of drama and suddenly he's a drama queen? The reality is no one knows or will ever know Hess' involvement with the Trent situation. Trent made it publicly clear Snyder had nothing to do with the situation -- I don't see how Trent would not have done the same for Hess if he didn't have a role in this whole debacle. People are wrongly pushing this narrative that the team doctors "encouraged" him to a get a second opinion. I don't see how you can "encourage" someone to get a second opinion but assure someone it's not serious for several years. The only language I see on ANY reporting article is that it was "suggested" - meaning he was given permission to seek a 2nd opinion... which he ended up doing and finding out it was cancer. Paul Conner @P_ConnerJr More info on Trent Williams situation from @kevinsheehanDC podcast. Said team believed Trent's growth was just a cyst. Kevin said team doctors did suggest a second opinion but when Trent pressed about whether it was serious or not, team said no. So he didn't seek 2nd opinion. I'm all for trading Trent for the right price - labeling him as a drama queen and a sore to this organization after everything he's done for us is just flat out disgusting though. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MKnight82 Posted March 2, 2020 Share Posted March 2, 2020 4 minutes ago, tredaddy said: I'm all for trading Trent for the right price - labeling him as a drama queen and a sore to this organization after everything he's done for us is just flat out disgusting though. Ya this is where I'm at. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turtle28 Posted March 2, 2020 Share Posted March 2, 2020 44 minutes ago, MikeT14 said: At this moment, yes. But they can get under relatively easily. Hell, Griffen opting out helped out immensely. And as you said before, Riley Reiff isn't that good and they could also cut him to make room for Trent. They'd save $8.8 million by cutting Reiff. And, they can cut Xavier Rhodes and Linval Joseph and save another $4.8 and $2.4 million for a total of $7.2 million. Those cuts net them $20.8 million and the salary cap always goes up $10 to 15 million. So, they could end up having $30 to $35 million in cap space. If they do that, they'd have money to give Trent a new contract and they will be able to re-sign Everson Griffen. And, we could trade Trent for Diggs. It's kind of far fetched that all of that happens, but it's not totally out of the realm of possibilities either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turtle28 Posted March 2, 2020 Share Posted March 2, 2020 35 minutes ago, tredaddy said: lol Trent has kept his head down and played at an All Pro level for YEARS through the sh**storm we've gone through as a fan base over the past decade. Never complained about anyone or caused any sort of drama and suddenly he's a drama queen? The reality is no one knows or will ever know Hess' involvement with the Trent situation. Trent made it publicly clear Snyder had nothing to do with the situation -- I don't see how Trent would not have done the same for Hess if he didn't have a role in this whole debacle. People are wrongly pushing this narrative that the team doctors "encouraged" him to a get a second opinion. I don't see how you can "encourage" someone to get a second opinion but assure someone it's not serious for several years. The only language I see on ANY reporting article is that it was "suggested" - meaning he was given permission to seek a 2nd opinion... which he ended up doing and finding out it was cancer. Paul Conner @P_ConnerJr More info on Trent Williams situation from @kevinsheehanDC podcast. Said team believed Trent's growth was just a cyst. Kevin said team doctors did suggest a second opinion but when Trent pressed about whether it was serious or not, team said no. So he didn't seek 2nd opinion. I'm all for trading Trent for the right price - labeling him as a drama queen and a sore to this organization after everything he's done for us is just flat out disgusting though. BOOM! Mic Drop! And, I don't hear the organization doing that either, only some fans who can't get over what happened last year. Time to move on from that and solve this situation by extending Trent to finish his career as a Redskins or trading him for at the least a #2 pick or a good player who may not be equal to him, but will be a good starter for us in a position we need. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turtle28 Posted March 2, 2020 Share Posted March 2, 2020 47 minutes ago, MKnight82 said: You're trying to shoebox a complicated situation into a simple answer. There were likely MULTIPLE reasons Trent Williams didn't play for the Redskins last season. One thing that really gripes me though, is you're accusing Trent of acting nefariously towards these doctors and assuming he's using them as leverage to get money (and yes they are all assumptions on your part, there is no proof he has done this). Trent Williams had cancer, that is scary as hell. At his age it must have been shocking, and its the kind of diagnosis that can shake the very foundation of families (Trent is almost certainly the pillar of his family). Trent Williams is also an employee of a multi-billion corporation. Do I care at all if he's trying to get a few more million dollars out of the billionaire owner? No I do not. Now do I want to use all of our cap up on an aging LT that wants to be paid big bucks? No I don't, but that is a football debate, I'm not attacking Trent's moral character. There is nothing wrong with Trent Williams asking for more money. And because Trent is just an employee, it was NOT his responsibility to remedy this situation. Bruce Allen was the head of the organization and should have done something about this before it ever got this bad. But he didn't, and that's because he's a piece of crap. Bruce treated his employees like slaves, told them to shut and and do what they were told and Trent was having none of that. Trent Williams is a HERO for sitting out last year and helping facilitate change in this organization. The front office was toxic, an embarrassment, and had the gal to be smug about it. You guys should be thanking Trent not attacking him. Boom! I loved my response, but I love yours even more. I wish you would unblock my posts bc you wouldn't believe how much we are agreeing nowadays. As I told @lavar703 it's almost scary as much as I'm agreeing with you two nowadays. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeT14 Posted March 2, 2020 Share Posted March 2, 2020 11 minutes ago, turtle28 said: And as you said before, Riley Reiff isn't that good and they could also cut him to make room for Trent. They'd save $8.8 million by cutting Reiff. And, they can cut Xavier Rhodes and Linval Joseph and save another $4.8 and $2.4 million for a total of $7.2 million. Those cuts net them $20.8 million and the salary cap always goes up $10 to 15 million. So, they could end up having $30 to $35 million in cap space. If they do that, they'd have money to give Trent a new contract and they will be able to re-sign Everson Griffen. And, we could trade Trent for Diggs. It's kind of far fetched that all of that happens, but it's not totally out of the realm of possibilities either. I really don't think Diggs is moving. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turtle28 Posted March 2, 2020 Share Posted March 2, 2020 9 hours ago, offbyone said: Penn was dirt cheap last year, but then he played like a top half of the league starter and gave us a full season. 5M for a proven starter is a lot more, but still cheap, especially if the market for the top guys goes to 19M/year. Of course if we resign TW at 18M/year we might not have the cash for this. But if draft someone we might want a dependable backup and someone to give him time to develop. At his age, he's at best a serviceable starter. At times he played good last year, he mostly played average and at times he played awful. Again, there's not market for him as a starter in the NFL. Last year he was unemployed until it was clear that Trent wasn't going to play a down for us all year. More than doubling Penn's salary just because he's going to be your starter is negotiating against yourself, that's not a smart business move. Penn has no leverage, the Redskins would have all the leverage in a negotiation for a new contract. So, basically the bidding would start at $2 million. I see no one knocking down his door so at best he'd get $3 million if we re-signed him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turtle28 Posted March 2, 2020 Share Posted March 2, 2020 4 minutes ago, MikeT14 said: I really don't think Diggs is moving. Me either but, it's worth a shot/discussion. You're a moderator now? A moderator in here or in a different forum? Not like it matters, congrats either way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tredaddy Posted March 2, 2020 Share Posted March 2, 2020 6 minutes ago, MikeT14 said: I really don't think Diggs is moving. +1. I tend to avoid mocking or discussing player for player trades because they are so difficult to predict and it rarely happens, especially at the caliber diggs + williams are at. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeT14 Posted March 2, 2020 Share Posted March 2, 2020 12 minutes ago, turtle28 said: Me either but, it's worth a shot/discussion. You're a moderator now? A moderator in here or in a different forum? Not like it matters, congrats either way. College forum with @naptownskinsfan and thank you. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turtle28 Posted March 2, 2020 Share Posted March 2, 2020 6 minutes ago, MikeT14 said: College forum with @naptownskinsfan and thank you. That's awesome! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
naptownskinsfan Posted March 2, 2020 Share Posted March 2, 2020 1 hour ago, tredaddy said: lol Trent has kept his head down and played at an All Pro level for YEARS through the sh**storm we've gone through as a fan base over the past decade. Never complained about anyone or caused any sort of drama and suddenly he's a drama queen? The reality is no one knows or will ever know Hess' involvement with the Trent situation. Trent made it publicly clear Snyder had nothing to do with the situation -- I don't see how Trent would not have done the same for Hess if he didn't have a role in this whole debacle. People are wrongly pushing this narrative that the team doctors "encouraged" him to a get a second opinion. I don't see how you can "encourage" someone to get a second opinion but assure someone it's not serious for several years. The only language I see on ANY reporting article is that it was "suggested" - meaning he was given permission to seek a 2nd opinion... which he ended up doing and finding out it was cancer. Paul Conner @P_ConnerJr More info on Trent Williams situation from @kevinsheehanDC podcast. Said team believed Trent's growth was just a cyst. Kevin said team doctors did suggest a second opinion but when Trent pressed about whether it was serious or not, team said no. So he didn't seek 2nd opinion. I'm all for trading Trent for the right price - labeling him as a drama queen and a sore to this organization after everything he's done for us is just flat out disgusting though. Not saying he's a drama queen, just scummy to use cancer as a way to get money out of the team. And maybe this is hitting harder to me than most because of my personal experiences with cancer (I haven't had it, but my family has suffered through it and people in my personal circle are being impacted right now as I type this out.). Larry Hess as a trainer would not be involved in diagnosing a cyst, cancer, etc. That's all on Inova Health. So if this is indeed the crux of Williams beef with the club, why is he still not holding out demanding a trade? Now it's trade or a new contract, despite Inova still being employed as the team doctors of the Redskins. Suggested by a doctor, at least to me, means it is encouraged. So it's either he wanted a new contract all along, or it's indeed a medical issue. Considering that Inova health is still here, and Williams will return with a new contract, indicates to me what's more important for him. And therefore, really scummy. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tredaddy Posted March 2, 2020 Share Posted March 2, 2020 7 minutes ago, naptownskinsfan said: Not saying he's a drama queen, just scummy to use cancer as a way to get money out of the team. And maybe this is hitting harder to me than most because of my personal experiences with cancer (I haven't had it, but my family has suffered through it and people in my personal circle are being impacted right now as I type this out.). Larry Hess as a trainer would not be involved in diagnosing a cyst, cancer, etc. That's all on Inova Health. So if this is indeed the crux of Williams beef with the club, why is he still not holding out demanding a trade? Now it's trade or a new contract, despite Inova still being employed as the team doctors of the Redskins. Suggested by a doctor, at least to me, means it is encouraged. So it's either he wanted a new contract all along, or it's indeed a medical issue. Considering that Inova health is still here, and Williams will return with a new contract, indicates to me what's more important for him. And therefore, really scummy. The reality is neither you or I know about Hess' involvement with the Trent situation - going down this path of assumptions is meaningless and offers little value. I pointed out Trent Williams made it clear to delineate Snyder's involvement with the situation -- logically, i think its fair to believe Hess had some negative role into this situation or Trent would have done the same for him. You can say what you want that Hess shouldn't have the ability to diagnose a cyst or cancer but the reality is as head trainer, his responsibility is the overseeing the overall well-being of ALL redskins athletes. Just as much as its an overseeing director's fault when a programmer on his/her team massively screws up coding, it's on Larry Hess for ignoring this issue with Trent for so many years. Just because Trent went through the whole cancer situation AND wants a new contract does not mean he is "using" his cancer to get money out of the team. That is just a very pessimistic viewpoint with no factual evidence to support it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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