Coronavirus (COVID-19)

[theJ]

3 minutes ago, ramssuperbowl99 said:

Here's why this bothers me: compare and contract the treatment and the expectations for basic adult responsibilities to this 30 year old adult to a regular adult. It's night and day. I used the example of a 15 year old getting life in jail for wrestling moves before, but it's worth repeating. We put a guy in jail for life who was 15. This guy is double that age. If he had a kid once he was an adult, and that kid killed someone accidentally using wrestling moves today, that 12 year old kid might be old enough to serve a lifetime in jail as an adult.

But it's not just that isolated example. We send people to jail, decide on the caliber of education they can get, and dictate a massive fraction of someone's future based on decisions they make well before 30. Hell, we'll put an 18 year old in jail and in a parole system designed to make them a lifetime offenders for a little bit of pot, and I'm supposed to have empathy for this idiot? 

You don't have to have empathy.  You can hate those people and make them your enemy, and i would totally understand.

You'll also never win them over that way.  They'll always be your enemy and you'll always hate them, and they'll always hate you.  

I guess i don't understand why that's the preferred approach?

[ramssuperbowl99]

Just now, theJ said:

You don't have to have empathy.  You can hate those people and make them your enemy, and i would totally understand.

You'll also never win them over that way.  They'll always be your enemy and you'll always hate them, and they'll always hate you.  

I guess i don't understand why that's the preferred approach?

It's not the preferred approach. You can lead a horse to water, and from then on, it chooses to drink or it doesn't. I'll celebrate the horse that drinks and will make fun of the one that doesn't, not because I want to, but because I can't do anything else.

[ET80]

2 minutes ago, ramssuperbowl99 said:

I'll celebrate the horse that drinks and will make fun of the one that doesn't, not because I want to, but because I can't do anything else.

@fretgod99 - as my appointed horse lawyer, do I have grounds to badger the witness?

[theJ]

4 minutes ago, ramssuperbowl99 said:

This post, brought to you by the guy who can't go 18 seconds without a wall of cursing at whatever vague enemy he has today, including the unemployed and their children around tax day.

Spare me your fake empathy lecture. You're defending this idiot because you see yourself in him. That's not empathy. It's selfishness.

Come on man, why the personal attack?  

 

[seriously27]

3 minutes ago, ramssuperbowl99 said:

It's not the preferred approach. You can lead a horse to water, and from then on, it chooses to drink or it doesn't. I'll celebrate the horse that drinks and will make fun of the one that doesn't, not because I want to, but because I can't do anything else.

This is going a little farther even. It would be like watching one horse drink the water while the other horse eats sand and lays out in the sun for 24 hours. 

[MacReady]

Just now, ramssuperbowl99 said:

This post, brought to you by the guy who can't go 18 pages without a wall of cursing, including for the unemployed and their children.

I curse a lot.  I get upset about people who take advantage of unemployment benefits because it directly effects me, such as when I have housekeepers who won't come to work because they get paid 600 dollars a week to be unemployed and I'm in desperate need of housekeepers and have begged them to come back. 

I don't like children, you're right. 

Quote

Spare me your fake empathy lecture. You're defending this idiot because you see yourself in him. That's not empathy. It's selfishness.

I see myself in him?  Wrong, but thanks for the insult. 

Ways I do not see myself in him:

1. I'm more freaked out by this virus than anyone.  When this first hit, I spent 500 dollars on groceries and bought like 100 cans of canned meat.  I freaked the **** out.  I went to the grocery store, got home, stripped to my underwear and sprayed every single item down with Odoban since Odoban was the only disinfectant I could find.  My beer tasted like Odoban for 2 weeks. 

2. I have never gone to a party in my life. 

3. I have taken every single measure imaginable to NOT get this virus.  I wash my hands religiously every half an hour. 

This was 100% an insult and a cheap shot when I am trying to relay understanding and empathy.  It's not fake.  I have zero political angle here.

I want to hate you right now, but I understand that you think I am trying to steer people towards an opposite viewpoint of yours in spite of the fact that I am trying to show ways of dealing with opposite viewpoints of yours. 

I am NOTHING like that 30 something man.  He and I could not be more dissimilar.  You are wrong. 

[ramssuperbowl99]

Just now, theJ said:

Come on man, why the personal attack?  

 

What personal attack? I criticized his ranting posting style, and referenced one where he whined specifically at the lazy unemployed people and their children taking all of his hard earned money away.

The closest I could see to a real personal attack is "you're defending this idiot because you see yourself in him", but I called the guy who died an idiot. 

[theJ]

Just now, ramssuperbowl99 said:

What personal attack? I criticized his ranting posting style, and referenced one where he whined specifically at the lazy unemployed people and their children taking all of his hard earned money away.

The closest I could see to a real personal attack is "you're defending this idiot because you see yourself in him", but I called the guy who died an idiot. 

Ok, i tried to be nice.  *Mod badge on*

Drop the personal attacks.  You called the guy who died an idiot, and said that Outpost was defending him because you see yourself in him.  Ergo, you called Outpost an idiot.

Don't do that.

[ramssuperbowl99]

1 minute ago, theJ said:

Ok, i tried to be nice.  *Mod badge on*

Drop the personal attacks.  You called the guy who died an idiot, and said that Outpost was defending him because you see yourself in him.  Ergo, you called Outpost an idiot.

Don't do that.

I'll drop it, but I specifically worded the post to try and not have people read it like you did.

[MacReady]

Just now, MookieMonstah said:

I mean there is so much information out there proving masks helps, proving it doesn't restrict oxygen intake, proving it stops help the spread. They just refuse to accept it. You wont convince people who are anti-science, because they'll dismiss everything you say.

Oh, there is so much I'd like to say to this, but it would get into fringe topics we can't discuss here.  I might PM you about it.  Basically, though, you're wrong. 

Like I said, I have always considered myself very middle ground.  My family?  Very NOT middle ground.  Let's just say I have an aunt who thinks the world is 4,000 years old.

THOUGHT is a better word for it. 

Trust me when I say that GIVE and TAKE works.  It really does.  You have to say things you don't personally believe for the give and take method to work, but it does work. 

You have to remember it's what they WANT to believe.  They WANT to believe that masks are bad for them because it takes the pressure off of them and puts the pressure on some external source - God, luck, providence, chance, elephants of the Serengeti.  Anti-science people are tough.  I get it.  In those cases, remove science. 

There are more resources available to you than mere fact. 

[MookieMonstah]

Just now, Outpost31 said:

Oh, there is so much I'd like to say to this, but it would get into fringe topics we can't discuss here.  I might PM you about it.  Basically, though, you're wrong. 

Like I said, I have always considered myself very middle ground.  My family?  Very NOT middle ground.  Let's just say I have an aunt who thinks the world is 4,000 years old.

THOUGHT is a better word for it. 

Trust me when I say that GIVE and TAKE works.  It really does.  You have to say things you don't personally believe for the give and take method to work, but it does work. 

You have to remember it's what they WANT to believe.  They WANT to believe that masks are bad for them because it takes the pressure off of them and puts the pressure on some external source - God, luck, providence, chance, elephants of the Serengeti.  Anti-science people are tough.  I get it.  In those cases, remove science. 

There are more resources available to you than mere fact. 

Feel free to PM me, because I'm unsure what I could possibly be wrong about. Tons of information out there.

[MacReady]

Just now, ramssuperbowl99 said:

I'll drop it, but I specifically worded the post to try and not have people read it like you did.

You'll drop it because you were proven wrong and you have no response. 

I forgive you, but I just want you to know - so I'm quoting you - you could not be more wrong. 

I am NOTHING like that man.  I do not see myself in him.  I see my family in him, and I care about my family and I know he has a family, probably with people in that family like me who know how difficult it is to convince him the error of his ways.  Now he is dead and his family has to pick up the pieces. 

[JonStark]

4 minutes ago, Outpost31 said:

Oh, there is so much I'd like to say to this, but it would get into fringe topics we can't discuss here.  I might PM you about it.  Basically, though, you're wrong. 

Like I said, I have always considered myself very middle ground.  My family?  Very NOT middle ground.  Let's just say I have an aunt who thinks the world is 4,000 years old.

THOUGHT is a better word for it. 

Trust me when I say that GIVE and TAKE works.  It really does.  You have to say things you don't personally believe for the give and take method to work, but it does work. 

You have to remember it's what they WANT to believe.  They WANT to believe that masks are bad for them because it takes the pressure off of them and puts the pressure on some external source - God, luck, providence, chance, elephants of the Serengeti.  Anti-science people are tough.  I get it.  In those cases, remove science. 

There are more resources available to you than mere fact. 

I like your glass half full approach, but the sad reality is that there are a ton of people out there who will never accept anything that disagrees with their beliefs. You can explain it as clearly and scientifically as possible, but will only get threats and insults in return. Obviously this isn't the case for everyone of differing opinions, but you can't just ignore that a large portion of the population acts this way. Trying to trick someone into thinking that your belief is better for them does not make them a less selfish person. It just means that they're now doing what you want for their selfish purposes. 

Would I love to live in a world like you mentioned, where everyone was capable of having a logical discussion with each other and find common ground? Absolutely. That's not the world we live in. 

[theJ]

10 minutes ago, Outpost31 said:

Oh, there is so much I'd like to say to this, but it would get into fringe topics we can't discuss here.  I might PM you about it.  Basically, though, you're wrong. 

Like I said, I have always considered myself very middle ground.  My family?  Very NOT middle ground.  Let's just say I have an aunt who thinks the world is 4,000 years old.

THOUGHT is a better word for it. 

Trust me when I say that GIVE and TAKE works.  It really does.  You have to say things you don't personally believe for the give and take method to work, but it does work. 

You have to remember it's what they WANT to believe.  They WANT to believe that masks are bad for them because it takes the pressure off of them and puts the pressure on some external source - God, luck, providence, chance, elephants of the Serengeti.  Anti-science people are tough.  I get it.  In those cases, remove science. 

There are more resources available to you than mere fact. 

This reminds me of a story we can't discuss here, because it involves race.  But the lessons learned from that apply here as well.

https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2015/03/the-audacity-of-talking-about-race-with-the-klu-klux-klan/388733/

Originally a story done by Snap Judgement.  This is the text version.  The core lesson learned is this:

Quote

 

The most important thing I learned is that when you are actively learning about someone else you are passively teaching them about yourself. So if you have an adversary with an opposing point of view, give that person a platform. Allow them to air that point of view, regardless of how extreme it may be. And believe me, I've heard things so extreme at these rallies they'll cut you to the bone.

Give them a platform.

You challenge them. But you don't challenge them rudely or violently. You do it politely and intelligently. And when you do things that way chances are they will reciprocate and give you a platform. So he and I would sit down and listen to one another over a period of time. And the cement that held his ideas together began to get cracks in it. And then it began to crumble. And then it fell apart.

 

 

[ramssuperbowl99]

7 minutes ago, Outpost31 said:

You'll drop it because you were proven wrong and you have no response. 

I forgive you, but I just want you to know - so I'm quoting you - you could not be more wrong. 

I am NOTHING like that man.  I do not see myself in him.  I see my family in him, and I care about my family and I know he has a family, probably with people in that family like me who know how difficult it is to convince him the error of his ways.  Now he is dead and his family has to pick up the pieces. 

You're right, I was wrong. You see your family in him, which means your "empathy" here is still really selfishness, and you can still shove the lecture of empathy right back with the rest of your rants.