mission27 Posted November 9, 2020 Share Posted November 9, 2020 15 minutes ago, Mega Ron said: This wasn't/isn't Operation Warp Speed is it? It was not Warp Speed funded no Moderna vaccine which is Warp Speed is a couple weeks behind but will ultimately be even better and more available come 1H21 in the MoLs educated opinion 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vikesfan89 Posted November 9, 2020 Share Posted November 9, 2020 1 hour ago, ramssuperbowl99 said: To answer your 2nd question first, it'd be better to have public and private resources combine to distribute this together. Privately, Pfizer/BioNTech would sell to whoever, first come first serve. That works well for toilet paper, but as we all saw in March, when everyone needs toilet paper all at once, not so much. Publicly, you could have the CDC advise Pfizer/BNT where to distribute the vaccine first based on areas with high infection rates, vulnerable communities, and logistics. That's before you even start to combine resources directly, you could use outdoor public facilities, schools and school workers, shift front line health care worker responsibilities, etc. to all get this out faster and to make sure everyone who wants it will have a chance to get it. So, since the public/private combo is the best option, that's what Cuomo (and the Biden administration) want to go with. Per Cuomo, he's not involved with the Trump plan. I don't have any more details on the Trump plan than what Cuomo just said, if anyone has those feel free to post them, but if there is no public distribution arm of the Trump plan, then there is nothing for him to do at the moment to help with that plan. Therefore, he's got 2 options: Take on public distribution of the vaccine to NY himself Roll NY vaccine distribution into the Biden administration's plan for USA wide distribution I think Cuomo has probably made the decision to not start with option 1, since by the time they make any headway there will be a national plan already and the extra work in avoiding "double vaccinations" for a state like New York probably ends up costing just as much time eventually anyway. I know that Trump has talked about us having the military help with distribution. I thought he mentioned in one of the debates but maybe not. But he says a lot of things. He did say there will be a vaccine soon. I'll have to watch that video again but it sounded like he didn't even think private companies should start shipping it. You're saying he just doesn't want to be a part of figuring out the logistics until later? If there is 15 million doses approved and ready to go in a month will be just let them go wherever until Biden takes over? That's fine as long as he's not thinking we should hold onto those 15 million doses Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xenos Posted November 9, 2020 Share Posted November 9, 2020 38 minutes ago, Mega Ron said: This wasn't/isn't Operation Warp Speed is it? You’re right. Pfizer never joined Operation Warp Speed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ramssuperbowl99 Posted November 9, 2020 Share Posted November 9, 2020 41 minutes ago, Mega Ron said: This wasn't/isn't Operation Warp Speed is it? Damnit. Well there goes the "both sides get a piece" take. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ramssuperbowl99 Posted November 9, 2020 Share Posted November 9, 2020 15 minutes ago, vikesfan89 said: You're saying he just doesn't want to be a part of figuring out the logistics until later? If there is 15 million doses approved and ready to go in a month will be just let them go wherever until Biden takes over? That's fine as long as he's not thinking we should hold onto those 15 million doses We need to put in perspective how crazy the distribution is going to be. We're talking about distributing 300 million plus doses of this thing all across the country, to everyone once and not a second time based on need, location, and a ton of other factors that are changing in real time. The only things we can really compare this to are the census and the federal election in terms of the sheer quantity of people all needing to receive 1 thing exactly. This past election showed the downside of letting states each come up with their own plan. We have 50 databases and 50 registries and tons of cross checking that had be done, and a lot of that had to be done manually. That's a crappy process. Imagine if we had one federal database to run all of those queries and figure out who voted, where they live, etc. etc. That'd be logistically a ton easier. Now, I get why we can't have that for state-by-state voting with the electoral college, but imagine if we were as disorganized distributing this vaccine as we were with mask mandates or counting votes state by state. How much time are we wasting? Think about that in terms of dollars and lives, and it makes sense why the Biden administration wants to use the feds, and Cuomo is deferring to them. One thing I didn't mention, as far as "why couldn't Cuomo join up with the feds already starting this today?", that question should go to the Trump administration. They may have a plan and it may not involve Cuomo directly, or there may have been a communication miss. Or there might not be a public portion of their plan at all. Asking the question would be a way to start narrowing down the possibilities. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobbyPhil1781 Posted November 9, 2020 Share Posted November 9, 2020 2 hours ago, Deadpulse said: I have run a flu program for the last 5 years (this year my company sold it thank god, its a giant pain in the arse), and I can tell you in those 5 years the flu vaccine has never been 70%. Highest I have seen is 64%. I have also seen as low as 20%. The average of those 5 years was about 45%. The flu vaccine viability is all over the place because there is a fair amount of guess work. Outside of this weird mink mutation, most reports, surprisingly, show very little mutation with COVID-19, which lends itself to vaccine effectiveness. On the flip side, the flu has multiple different strains every year. The standard flu shot features at least 3 different strains that the CDC guesses will be prominent. You take out the need for that level of guess work and it makes the effectiveness skyrocket. So I guess what I am saying is, this is great news if they can roll it out and get the approvals. The big hope now is that this mink strain doesnt spread and more like it don't pop up. That's wild. I had no clue the flu vaccine was that ineffective. I knew it was unpredictable due to the rate of mutations the flu undergoes each year but I never would've guessed 45% would've been the average. So crazy. I read that they said anything around 60% would've been considered a success here so I can only imagine their excitement when the data was released. This makes me extremely happy. I know I won't have access to it any time soon but maybe due to my family professions, that might change. Not holding my breath for that to happen and really don't mind. My wife recruits for a hospice organization and she's heard a lot of nurses will refuse the initial vaccine. In fact, I know an insane amount of people in the healthcare industry and their lackadaisical approach to this has been mind-boggling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobbyPhil1781 Posted November 9, 2020 Share Posted November 9, 2020 24 minutes ago, Xenos said: You’re right. Pfizer never joined Operation Warp Speed. No kidding? I thought everyone was a part of this. The only thing I want the government to do in this is fund it and take care of logistics. I'm sure they still will if needed but I really thought everyone was a part. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tk3 Posted November 9, 2020 Share Posted November 9, 2020 yeah.. Cuomo was simply saying that he doesn't trust the Trump administration to distribute this in a fair, equitable, or even competent way. Which likely is an accurate statement. All of that aside, this is extremely promising news. I don't know when this will change my life. I have to assume I am months away from receiving the vaccine and life going back to normal, but it's still fantastic to know that medical workers and the extremely vulnerable will get relief soon. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ramssuperbowl99 Posted November 9, 2020 Share Posted November 9, 2020 1 minute ago, BobbyPhil1781 said: No kidding? I thought everyone was a part of this. The only thing I want the government to do in this is fund it and take care of logistics. I'm sure they still will if needed but I really thought everyone was a part. Pfizer never took any money from Operation Warp Speed, but they had a separate deal with the US for 100 million doses. I thought second deal was apart of Operation Warp Speed, but apparently not. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobbyPhil1781 Posted November 9, 2020 Share Posted November 9, 2020 2 minutes ago, ramssuperbowl99 said: Pfizer never took any money from Operation Warp Speed, but they had a separate deal with the US for 100 million doses. I thought second deal was apart of Operation Warp Speed, but apparently not. Well as long as they have something but you don't get to the place you're at w/ a company like them w/o knowing wtf you're doing. I have all the trust in them to get things done properly when the time comes. Does that second deal mean the 100 million doses will stay in the US? I'm not one to be selfish but I might have to go outside my comfort zone w/ this Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobbyPhil1781 Posted November 9, 2020 Share Posted November 9, 2020 2 hours ago, Shanedorf said: on the cold storage side, it will be a challenge - but they've been adding -70 storage capacity around the world while the trials were still running Are you saying that they have been anticipating this and already been creating these facilities around the world? If that's the case, there's been a ****load of confidence involved in this ordeal from just preordering doses, to developing these facilities, to everything. I love me some pointless stats and I'd love to see the grand total of this once all the dust settles. I understand why they do these things but, you know, it's my first pandemic so it's all just surprising to see it being done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heimdallr Posted November 9, 2020 Share Posted November 9, 2020 3 minutes ago, BobbyPhil1781 said: Are you saying that they have been anticipating this and already been creating these facilities around the world? If that's the case, there's been a ****load of confidence involved in this ordeal from just preordering doses, to developing these facilities, to everything. I love me some pointless stats and I'd love to see the grand total of this once all the dust settles. I understand why they do these things but, you know, it's my first pandemic so it's all just surprising to see it being done. Why are you surprised? Do you know how many hundreds of billions of dollars in sweet, sweet government contracts the administration got to hand out to their donors and friends? They don't care if those facilities ever get used. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobbyPhil1781 Posted November 9, 2020 Share Posted November 9, 2020 13 minutes ago, Heimdallr said: Why are you surprised? Do you know how many hundreds of billions of dollars in sweet, sweet government contracts the administration got to hand out to their donors and friends? They don't care if those facilities ever get used. I'm just surprised b/c I guess I never thought of it but when it's shown to me, yeah, it makes a ton of sense. Like I've said many times, this is all very new to me lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shanedorf Posted November 9, 2020 Share Posted November 9, 2020 those facilities are just building freezer farms, its cheaper and faster than trying to make the entire building into a -70 freezer But the vaccine doses have to be kept cold in transit from Pfizer mfg to the freezer farm, and again from the farm to the clinic where they will dose patients Dry ice and liquid nitrogen are the 2 main methods of transporting cold items and they have sensors in the Dewar ( container) to make sure it doesn't go outside of specified temps while in transit. Once at the farm, they need a source of controlled power to feed the freezers - so that's a challenge in some countries where they don't have reliable electricity output. As far as dry ice, its a byproduct of ethanol production, so the pandemic strikes again as many of the large scale ethanol producers ramped down given the drop in energy use around the world. (Ethanol as fuel, not as vodka) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobbyPhil1781 Posted November 9, 2020 Share Posted November 9, 2020 (edited) 5 minutes ago, Shanedorf said: those facilities are just building freezer farms, its cheaper and faster than trying to make the entire building into a -70 freezer But the vaccine doses have to be kept cold in transit from Pfizer mfg to the freezer farm, and again from the farm to the clinic where they will dose patients Dry ice and liquid nitrogen are the 2 main methods of transporting cold items and they have sensors in the Dewar ( container) to make sure it doesn't go outside of specified temps while in transit. Once at the farm, they need a source of controlled power to feed the freezers - so that's a challenge in some countries where they don't have reliable electricity output. As far as dry ice, its a byproduct of ethanol production, so the pandemic strikes again as many of the large scale ethanol producers ramped down given the drop in energy use around the world. (Ethanol as fuel, not as vodka) Oh this is cool (no pun intended /dadjoke)! I thought only full facilities would be capable of such tasks as keeping things that cold. These are small, transportable and like you said, cheaper and easier to make. Very neat!! Humans are a smart, resilient group. I like silver linings and there's been a few to this pandemic on a personal level but to see how quickly and efficiently things look to be getting us back to normal is neat to see. No reason to think the finish line isn't in our near future especially w/ the recent news that antibodies can stick around for over 6 months even in mild cases. Just hope there's no major setbacks. Edited November 9, 2020 by BobbyPhil1781 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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