Myles Garrett vs. TJ Watt

[AlexGreen#20]

Good Lord.

Shame on me for believing you people acting like TJ Watt is dropping into coverage a lot.

I wanted to see for myself, so I picked a game to give him the benefit of the doubt. Against the Cardinals where he had an interception.

This man dropped 4 times. 2 in the redzone and 2 that I think he was either looking to scrape over the top in run defense or was playing some kind of spy.

So I was curious and looked at his stats. He was targeted 5 damn times this year.

TJ Watt didn't drop more than a handful of times all this year, and almost not at all outside of the redzone.

Come the **** on. 

[AlexGreen#20]

22 minutes ago, BlaqOptic said:

It's funny because some of those same All-World guys who you're trying to prop up were only 5.5 sack guys but when Ogunjobi does it you sell him short. The other part is that it's no coincidence that those same players you highlight all had their best seasons AFTER Watt arrived. And it's not like it was a one-shot outlier; all had their first and second best seasons as Pros AFTER Watt got to Pittsburgh and transformed the defense from run of the mill to top 8.

I mean, Tuitt, Hargrove, and Heyward have all had really good seasons in the past. Acting like these are some JAGs that all of a sudden turned it on is wrong. 

They're fine players in their own right. Watt is the best of them, but they're not being made by Watt. Heyward in particular was a star for a while, and his best season lining up with Watt's rookie year looks more like a coincidence than anything that can be attributed. 

Tuitt's best season on sacks is 2015, and he was only 24 when Watt joined the Steelers. Hargrave was a rookie in his only year Watt wasn't on the team.

You can't act like he's misleading the conversation on the supporting cast and then make the argument you just did. 

 

[BZski]

On 4/1/2020 at 12:47 PM, Tetsujin said:

Still pissed Miami drafted Charles ******* Harris instead of Watt.

Hi....Lions fans here....Every heard of Jarrad "cant tackle to save my life" Davis? Yea...thats who we took over Watt!

[BlaqOptic]

7 hours ago, AlexGreen#20 said:

I mean, Tuitt, Hargrove, and Heyward have all had really good seasons in the past. Acting like these are some JAGs that all of a sudden turned it on is wrong. 

They're fine players in their own right. Watt is the best of them, but they're not being made by Watt. Heyward in particular was a star for a while, and his best season lining up with Watt's rookie year looks more like a coincidence than anything that can be attributed. 

Tuitt's best season on sacks is 2015, and he was only 24 when Watt joined the Steelers. Hargrave was a rookie in his only year Watt wasn't on the team.

You can't act like he's misleading the conversation on the supporting cast and then make the argument you just did. 

 

Yes... Cam Heyward who was never even a 2nd team All-Pro or eclipsed 7.5 sacks has since eclipsed the mark every year since Watt has arrived. And While Tuitt did have his most sacks prior to Watt's arrival he had his best season after Watt's arrival with his most total plays behind the LoS. 

Nobody is pretending they're JAGs. But to sit here and deny/minimize the impact that Watt has had on the defense is ridiculous. The Defense has been immensely better since Watt's arrival.

[mtmmike]

Let me give some simple stats 

browns 1-0 verses Pittsburgh with Freddie Kitchens the coach. and Myles on the field.

Tomlin 0-1 verses kitchens when he has Myles.

 

[AlexGreen#20]

8 hours ago, BlaqOptic said:

Yes... Cam Heyward who was never even a 2nd team All-Pro or eclipsed 7.5 sacks has since eclipsed the mark every year since Watt has arrived. And While Tuitt did have his most sacks prior to Watt's arrival he had his best season after Watt's arrival with his most total plays behind the LoS. 

Nobody is pretending they're JAGs. But to sit here and deny/minimize the impact that Watt has had on the defense is ridiculous. The Defense has been immensely better since Watt's arrival.

You're doing what Packer fans do to prop up Aaron Rodgers, tearing down the team to prop up one guy. 

Better numbers across the board stem from a number of things from the DL guys, the most obvious being that they now don't have any weaknesses across their 4 and 5 man fronts. Dupree-Heyward-Hargrave-Tuitt-Watt is a group that doesn't have a single worthless pass rusher. 

2017 was Heyward's best year and it was a pass rush group without a stud. When you don't have a stud, you start stunting and blitzing to generate pressure. Heyward and Vince Williams were the primary beneficiaries of that. The fact that defense managed to be good that year is really impressive. 

Tuitt having his best year as a 25 year old, especially when the year wasn't hugely better than any of his previous years, is much easier to hypothesize as a dude simply maturing physically and personally than it is about having a stud playing next to him. 

Has the defense been immensely better since Watt's arrival? In the two years preceding Watt, the defense allowed 20.2ppg. In the three years since Watt's arrival, the defense allowed 20.3ppg. Just looking at point totals, Watt hasn't moved the needle at all. Obviously that's an absurd conclusion, but the defense has not been immensely better since Watt's arrival.

 

[AntonChigurh]

On 4/20/2020 at 2:14 PM, BlaqOptic said:

The irony... You're throwing around terms like 3-Tech and clearly have no idea what they actually mean. If Alualu were playing the 3-Tech then that would leave the OT one-on-one with the Linebacker or the OT and TE 2-on-1 with the linebacker since he's our Defensive End and almost never kicks inside. If you're insinuating Alualu commands double teams from the 3-Tech and would command the tackles inside shoulder then you've never watched a Steelers game.

 

Not how being a dominant 3 technique works , Allualu was constantly getting double and chipped on his side on top of it. 

 

 

[skywlker32]

On 4/20/2020 at 2:39 PM, AlexGreen#20 said:

Good Lord.

Shame on me for believing you people acting like TJ Watt is dropping into coverage a lot.

I wanted to see for myself, so I picked a game to give him the benefit of the doubt. Against the Cardinals where he had an interception.

This man dropped 4 times. 2 in the redzone and 2 that I think he was either looking to scrape over the top in run defense or was playing some kind of spy.

So I was curious and looked at his stats. He was targeted 5 damn times this year.

TJ Watt didn't drop more than a handful of times all this year, and almost not at all outside of the redzone.

Come the **** on. 

Most DEFINITELY not what that means. I would be curious to see the percentage of passing attempts that Garrett and Watt spend in coverage.

[AlexGreen#20]

On 4/22/2020 at 12:37 PM, AntonChigurh said:

 

Not how being a dominant 3 technique works , Allualu was constantly getting double and chipped on his side on top of it. 

 

 

1. Why on earth are you under the impression that Tyson Alualu is even an average player, much less dominant?

He was the 4th DL on the Steelers. He was a backup.

Pro Football Reference has him at 1 sack and 5 other pressures in 432 snaps. That 1 sack was the Steelers last defensive snap of the game in a 27-9 blowout of the league worst Bengals. 

Are you basing this weird *** opinion entirely on his inexplicable PFF score?

I just went through every one of his pass snaps against the Bills (his second most snaps in a game this year. 60%) He wasn't double teamed a single time. 

2. Even if we assume, purely hypothetically, that Tyson Alualu is a dominant player, are you really think teams are choosing to have their RT downblock on a 3T with 1 sack on the the year rather than block the 16 sack on the year DE???

 

Edited April 23, 2020 by AlexGreen#20

[AlexGreen#20]

54 minutes ago, skywlker32 said:

Most DEFINITELY not what that means. I would be curious to see the percentage of passing attempts that Garrett and Watt spend in coverage.

I only checked the one game, but looking at that one game, Watt doesn't drop at all outside of the redzone and only about 10% of the time in the redzone (2 total snaps). That's a game where he had an interception so I'm definitely giving him the botd on the game I picked. 

[Duluther]

I've always loved the dominance of Steeler defenders.

Mean Joe Greene, James Harrison, LC Greenwood, Troy Polamalu, Tyson Alualu, etc.

 

I mean, the list goes on and on.

[skywlker32]

8 minutes ago, AlexGreen#20 said:

I only checked the one game, but looking at that one game, Watt doesn't drop at all outside of the redzone and only about 10% of the time in the redzone (2 total snaps). That's a game where he had an interception so I'm definitely giving him the botd on the game I picked. 

Not the part that I was questioning, but that's not necessarily true either.

The problem I have is assuming that he was targeted on all plays that he went into coverage like you did in the previous post.

[AlexGreen#20]

2 minutes ago, skywlker32 said:

Not the part that I was questioning, but that's not necessarily true either.

The problem I have is assuming that he was targeted on all plays that he went into coverage like you did in the previous post.

At no point did I do that. They were two separate points, that's why they were divided by a period and a line break. 

[skywlker32]

1 minute ago, AlexGreen#20 said:

At no point did I do that. They were two separate points, that's why they were divided by a period and a line break. 

The second point was stating that he dropped a handful of times, whereas the first was regarding his 5 passes defensed. There is something wrong there or you don't understand the term handful.

[Soko]

Can’t find 2019, but in 2018 Watt dropped into coverage 131 times (PFF), roughly 15% of his total snaps. Of course that encompasses all snaps, including run plays.

Edited April 24, 2020 by Yin-Yang