1.26 - Jordan Love [QB; Utah State] - QB1

[Blink]

Just now, Ragnarok said:

First two questions are irrelevant and don't make sense.

Next two questions...my point is that the Packers will be good enough to make the playoffs next year, but not good enough to win a SB.  Same as this past year.  

How are they irrelevant?  You are making claims that these franchises obviously made smarter choices than us, but this is obviously suspect considering none of them got farther in the playoffs than us.

We obviously aren't close enough to a SB now to be going complete all in mode if a single draft pick just slammed the window shut, were we?  How can you make the claim that we should be selling the farm to compete for a SB right away if a single pick is what would make or break that run?

[vegas492]

4 minutes ago, Joe said:

I saw his Wake Forest game and saw a guy that didn't tuck it and run when he could have. I saw WR's that had to constantly adjust to the fluttery balls coming out of his hand. I also saw a guy that had a great release as I've said multiple times now. I'm not going to be like AG20 and put a ton of GIFs up because 1. I don't know how to do it admittedly, but 2. it would be a massive post.

One game?  And you cite nothing but dudes on keyboards instead of going out on limb based off of what you saw and think you know?

Man....you gotta do better than that.  

I'd love to see your post about Love.  Watch 2018 Love as well as 2019.  Watch every game you can.  Take notes.  Post them.  Go into it as much as you can without bias.  

Because right now...you simply parrot what others say.  

And what I find amazing is that you cite Zeurlein.

https://www.nfl.com/draft/tracker/prospects/QB?college=allColleges&page=1&status=ALL&year=2020

And in his work, the kid is a starter in a year or two.  Just a lick below Herbert, who went at what, #6???

And from reading Zeurlein...it sounds like he didn't watch much in 2018 and focused his negatives on 2019.  

[Joe]

Just now, vegas492 said:

One game?  And you cite nothing but dudes on keyboards instead of going out on limb based off of what you saw and think you know?

Man....you gotta do better than that.  

I'd love to see your post about Love.  Watch 2018 Love as well as 2019.  Watch every game you can.  Take notes.  Post them.  Go into it as much as you can without bias.  

Because right now...you simply parrot what others say.  

And what I find amazing is that you cite Zeurlein.

https://www.nfl.com/draft/tracker/prospects/QB?college=allColleges&page=1&status=ALL&year=2020

And in his work, the kid is a starter in a year or two.  Just a lick below Herbert, who went at what, #6???

And from reading Zeurlein...it sounds like he didn't watch much in 2018 and focused his negatives on 2019.  

Did I say that was the only game I watched? Secondly, I also cited The Draft Network as well as Zierlein. They both came to the same consensus. The tape I saw, which was also 2018 I might add, confirms what was written.

Also, you missed the part about Love not being the best QB in this draft and the fact that he played against lesser competition than Rodgers did.

[Gopackgonerd]

 

Hahahaha I love Dbak

[MacReady]

Just now, Ragnarok said:

Bills traded up for Tremaine who is a beast.  Titans traded up for Rashaan Evans who is a beast.  Both those guys were special last year.  Bush was awesome for the Steelers as well.

Evans was by all accounts bad.  Just because you do things fast doesn't mean you do things well. 

He had a PFF grade under 50. 
Tremaine Edmunds under 60. 
Bush under 63.

None of them were beyond 5 points from Blake Martinez's score.

Outside of Kuechly, who is now retired, none of the best-rated linebackers from last season were drafted in the first round. 

Kendricks - 90.2 (45th)
Demario Davis - 90.1 (77th)
Lavonte David - 89 (58th)
Kuechly - 85.3 (9th)
Littleton - 78.9 (undrafted)
Deion Jones - 76.6 (52nd)
Wagner - 76.1 (47th)
Jaylon Smith 70.2 (34th)
Hightower - 69.4 (25th)
Cunningham - 69 (57th)
Warner - 66.9
Bush - 62.9
Hicks - 60.9 (84th)
Edmunds - 59.8 (16th)
Schobert - 59.1 (99th)
Martinez - 58.9 (131st)
Bostic - 55.3 (50th)
Damien Wilson - 55.2
Nick Vigil - 54.4 (87th)
Roquan Smith - 52.4 (8th)
Devin White - 50.6 (5th)
Rashaan Evans - 49.9 (22nd)

Bobby Wagner (47th)
 

 

 

 

[CWood21]

56 minutes ago, Ragnarok said:

It's about them being okay with being a good team and not pushing to be a great team.  Be just good enough to make the playoffs before getting smashed right out.  That way everyone keeps their jobs.  Plus, they're guaranteed to get a couple years with Love as a starter.  

Queen, Blacklock, Higgins, etc. are all far superior prospects to Love and would actually help us win in the playoffs.  

And no, I'm not a teenager. 

QB is the most important position in sports, we have one, and instead of giving him any help, we draft for 3 years down the road.  Scared drafting.

So...you're telling me you truly believe the Packers took a lower graded player for the future than a higher graded player for the present?

[vegas492]

29 minutes ago, Ragnarok said:

Bills traded up for Tremaine who is a beast.  Titans traded up for Rashaan Evans who is a beast.  Both those guys were special last year.  Bush was awesome for the Steelers as well.

As for the bolded, it's pretty self-explanatory.  They're focused on 4-5 years down the road and not winning a SB next year.  They know they'll get to the playoffs.  That's good enough for them.

Tremaine Edmunds.  PFF grade of 58.3.  #51 on the ILB list for PFF.

Rashaan Evans.  47.7 PFF grade.  Good enough for #74 for PFF.

Devin Bush.  62.9 PFF grade.  Good enough for #36 for PFF.

For context, Blake Martinez got a 57.9 score and a rank of #53.

I know PFF isn't the end all be all, but their scoring is consistent.  

EDIT:  @Outpost31 beat me to this.

Edited April 24, 2020 by vegas492

[Ragnarok]

8 minutes ago, Blink said:

How are they irrelevant?  You are making claims that these franchises obviously made smarter choices than us, but this is obviously suspect considering none of them got farther in the playoffs than us.

We obviously aren't close enough to a SB now to be going complete all in mode if a single draft pick just slammed the window shut, were we?  How can you make the claim that we should be selling the farm to compete for a SB right away if a single pick is what would make or break that run?

Bush was a large part of why the Steelers D was as good as it was with no QB.  Rashaan and Tremaine have been the centerpieces for their respective defenses and a big part of those teams having turn arounds.  Better QB played a bigger part, but we are already set there.

It's about playing the odds.  Some picks will bust, some won't.  Essentially removing a 1st round pick from the equation for the next three years obviously hurts those odds.

1 minute ago, Outpost31 said:

Evans was by all accounts bad.  Just because you do things fast doesn't mean you do things well. 

He had a PFF grade under 50. 
Tremaine Edmunds under 60. 
Bush under 63.

None of them were beyond 5 points from Blake Martinez's score.

Outside of Kuechly, who is now retired, none of the best-rated linebackers from last season were drafted in the first round. 

Kendricks - 90.2 (45th)
Demario Davis - 90.1 (77th)
Lavonte David - 89 (58th)
Kuechly - 85.3 (9th)
Littleton - 78.9 (undrafted)
Deion Jones - 76.6 (52nd)
Wagner - 76.1 (47th)
Jaylon Smith 70.2 (34th)
Hightower - 69.4 (25th)
Cunningham - 69 (57th)
Warner - 66.9
Bush - 62.9
Hicks - 60.9 (84th)
Edmunds - 59.8 (16th)
Schobert - 59.1 (99th)
Martinez - 58.9 (131st)
Bostic - 55.3 (50th)
Damien Wilson - 55.2
Nick Vigil - 54.4 (87th)
Roquan Smith - 52.4 (8th)
Devin White - 50.6 (5th)
Rashaan Evans - 49.9 (22nd)

Bobby Wagner (47th)
 

 

 

 

PFF is a joke.  Actually watching the games shows how awful their grades are.  I'm a Nashville native, so I see all the Titans games.  Rashaan was a beast last year.

If you want to make a real point about them being bad, we can discuss that.  But don't use PFF numbers.  They have no clue what is going on in a given play.

1 minute ago, CWood21 said:

So...you're telling me you truly believe the Packers took a lower graded player for the future than a higher graded player for the present?

I could see it.

[vegas492]

7 minutes ago, Joe said:

Did I say that was the only game I watched? Secondly, I also cited The Draft Network as well as Zierlein. They both came to the same consensus. The tape I saw, which was also 2018 I might add, confirms what was written.

Also, you missed the part about Love not being the best QB in this draft and the fact that he played against lesser competition than Rodgers did.

Yes, you said you watched Wake Forest.  So, you busted yourself there.

Again, citing other people...

Which tape of 2018?  Odd that you left out specifics.  Remember, there's only so much out there concerning him, so when you do the research to respond to this post, make sure you reply with a tape that actually exists.....

[Ragnarok]

3 minutes ago, vegas492 said:

Tremaine Edmunds.  PFF grade of 58.3.  #51 on the ILB list for PFF.

Rashaan Evans.  47.7 PFF grade.  Good enough for #74 for PFF.

Devin Bush.  62.9 PFF grade.  Good enough for #36 for PFF.

For context, Blake Martinez got a 57.9 score and a rank of #53.

I know PFF isn't the end all be all, but their scoring is consistent.  

I said it above, but I don't care about PFF grades.

[CWood21]

Just now, Ragnarok said:

I could see it.

You can't honestly believe that.  Why?

[OneTwoSixFive]

1 hour ago, hitnhope said:

The problem here is that there is minimal upside.  It was two years too early to make this move.   In the 2022 draft many of us critical would have been much more excited

When he was drafted Rodgers had to sit behind Favre. Now Love will sit behind Rodgers (pretty much guaranteed due to Rodgers contract). I count it as a big plus if the incoming QB can sit behind a starter, it doesn't often happen.

While the window for a new QB could be said to be three years, the Packers found their guy in year one, and when you find your guy, you go get him. A rookie in 2022 has a significantly worse chance of doing good work than a guy in the system for a couple of years already. Yes this is early to get Rodgers replacement...........but yes that's ok too. It's a buildican approach when you wanted a nowacrat approach.

As for the minimal upside..................that is totally wrong. The upside is not minimal, we are talking starting QB, so it is huge if it works. If it doesn't (and the odds are against any QB coming into the NFL) then the Packers will have another go in a year or two.

Your dislike of this move seems to stem from you wanting someone at another position................. and when that didn't happen you crafted reasons that fit in with your distaste of the pick that was made. My advice is wait and see what happens. Given how tough it is to find a good QB, Love may well fail, but equally, given how important having a decent QB1 is, you have to try.

[snackattack]

5 minutes ago, Bullet Club said:

LSU had the GOAT college offense because they had a dude who basically lived at the facilities studying the game and has one of the best placement/processing speeds we've ever seen. LSU would not have made the college football playoff, let alone won the whole thing with Jordan Love at QB. And absolutely none of you would've debated that before last night.

yeah maybe.  not even worth debating because its all conjecture.  what is not debatable and is a valid point when comparing the two players, is that the supporting cast / continuity between their respective teams is not even close.

[Ragnarok]

Just now, CWood21 said:

You can't honestly believe that.  Why?

Teams take lower graded QBs above higher graded players all the time.

[CWood21]

45 minutes ago, beekay414 said:

There are a few later options that can do the exact same thing as Queen. You don't invest a 1 into ILB unless he's a generational talent. 

If the option is Patrick Queen in the first or someone like Troy Dye in the 3rd, you take the latter.  Easily.