1.26 - Jordan Love [QB; Utah State] - QB1

[ThatJerkDave]

35 minutes ago, Ragnar Danneskjold said:

Aaron's motion needed a lot of work coming out too.  

QB picks are tough, and I don't have a lot of faith in Gute's QB evaluations, but I am hoping that he proves me wrong on this one.

The only evaluation that we have is that he liked Kizer.  All of his other QB additions have been UDFA.  

Ted got Rodgers and Flynn.  But he also used a 2nd on Brohm, and completely screwed up 2013 at that position.  Hundleymania ran mild, but I think that was a case of expectations being too high from some flashes in preseason, which were probably Myles White and Jeff Janis making plays against mostly non-roster guys, more than Hundley commanding an offense.  He was a 5th round pick.

 

So, Ted was 1/2 with high draft picks.  Gute is 0/1, with Love pending.

[Green19]

4 minutes ago, ThatJerkDave said:

The only evaluation that we have is that he liked Kizer.  All of his other QB additions have been UDFA.  

Ted got Rodgers and Flynn.  But he also used a 2nd on Brohm, and completely screwed up 2013 at that position.  Hundleymania ran mild, but I think that was a case of expectations being too high from some flashes in preseason, which were probably Myles White and Jeff Janis making plays against mostly non-roster guys, more than Hundley commanding an offense.  He was a 5th round pick.

 

So, Ted was 1/2 with high draft picks.  Gute is 0/1, with Love pending.

Not true... last years draft we were ready to draft Drew Lock in the 2nd but couldnt because of Denver.

Edited April 27, 2020 by Green19

[Patriotplayer90]

2 minutes ago, deathstar said:

Anyone saying Kinlaw is an equal talent to Buckner has got to be trolling.

Or have actually looked into the matter.  Buckner earned a 78.8 last year per PFF.

[MacReady]

You can never explain season to season disparity to casual fans.  You can't, you cannot.

You can even challenge them to list a single solitary Super Bowl losing team outside of the Patriots who repeated and got back to the Championship round the following year and they'll say that doesn't matter.

The Rams fell utterly apart after going all in.  Trading this, trading that, signing this and that and hey, he's ours too you can't sign him we're signing him and that one and him, they're all ours.

The Falcons lost the Divisional round and have been out of the playoffs two straight years.

Panthers didn't win 7 games, then lost in the Wild Card, missed the playoffs two years straight.

Broncos didn't win a playoff game. 

The Niners went through the same thing the last time they lost the Super Bowl.  Lost the Championship round and they went five years without getting back to the playoffs. 

But they replaced two significant players with rookies and they're suddenly unstoppable.  More likely than not they don't even make the playoffs. 

The quickest way to have a losing season is to panic and get too aggressive.  Super Bowl teams are not built in single moves, but steady, patient, practical moves over three years. 

You can trace the Chiefs Super Bowl win to their moves. 

2016 - Use their first pick on DL (Chris Jones, their defensive MVP).  They don't panic and get weapons, they take a risk on Tyreek Hill in the 5th round.

2017 - They draft their QBOFT with the plan of sitting him for a full year.

2018 - Speaks, Nnadi, O'Daniel, Watts, Smith, McKenzie.  I don't recognize a single name from this draft class.

2019 - Mecole Hardman.  For a team that has Hill, Watkins, Kelce, they draft a player they feel is the best available. 

Nothing the Chiefs have done over the past 4 years reeks of panic or aggression.  Their biggest move last offseason leading to their Super Bowl win was what many considered a downgrade of trading Ford for Clark and getting worse compensation for what many considered a downgrade and Clark has a massive postseason and helps them win a Super Bowl.

 

[deathstar]

1 minute ago, Patriotplayer90 said:

Or have actually looked into the matter.  Buckner earned a 78.8 last year per PFF.

Oh. Okay.

[ThatJerkDave]

49 minutes ago, cannondale said:

Well looked at it some more and his delivery still looks unique to me. I guess I have to say unique because maybe there's nothing wrong with it. Long ? Whippy ? Above my pay grade at this point. Certainly not elusive at all. As I was watching it had me wondering if Aaron is quicker and faster at 36 than he is at 21.

Just watching that Michigan State game, I can see the tools, but they need work.  The ball is floating a few times.  He will also get a lot of grounding penalties if he tries throwing out of sacks like he did.  

As for the speed, I don't think that offense is a good indicator.  I hope we wouldn't make a habit of running those runs for Aaron.  Love certainly isn't Kaepernick though.  Rodgers is sneaky fast, but most of his runs are broken plays.  I would like to see more examples of this happening for Love before we judge that foot race.  

[ThatJerkDave]

3 minutes ago, Green19 said:

Not true... last years draft we were ready to draft Drew Lock in the 2nd but couldnt because of Denver.

But we didn't.  We can only judge on what moves we actually made, not things that could have happened.  I'll go on a limb and say that we are ready to take Trevor Lawrence with our 2021 pick too, he just has to make it there.

[gopackgo972]

1 hour ago, Fox_NFLs_GG said:

He is going to get intercepted a lot if he over throws and floats the ball that much in the NFL.

Well it’s a good thing he’s going to have time to sit behind Arod and develop. Jesus you people are so nit picky. Sure he’s got things to clean up but the talent is there. You can find things wrong with the every QB in this draft. But I get it you just don’t like the pick so everything you see is bad. You think fans would be rooting for the kid. 

[OneTwoSixFive]

9 minutes ago, Outpost31 said:

You can even challenge them to list a single solitary Super Bowl losing team outside of the Patriots who repeated and got back to the Championship round the following year and they'll say that doesn't matter

Marv Levy with the Bills 1988 to 1993 went 
1988 loss in AFC championship
1989 loss in Divisional game
then loses in the Superbowl in four consecutive years 1990 - 1993.

Still one of the finest coaching jobs ever (imo), and a terrible shame the Bills couldn't get at least one Superb Owl in that period.

[Ragnar Danneskjold]

14 minutes ago, ThatJerkDave said:

The only evaluation that we have is that he liked Kizer.  All of his other QB additions have been UDFA.  

Ted got Rodgers and Flynn.  But he also used a 2nd on Brohm, and completely screwed up 2013 at that position.  Hundleymania ran mild, but I think that was a case of expectations being too high from some flashes in preseason, which were probably Myles White and Jeff Janis making plays against mostly non-roster guys, more than Hundley commanding an offense.  He was a 5th round pick.

 

So, Ted was 1/2 with high draft picks.  Gute is 0/1, with Love pending.

Don't get me wrong, I agree.

Wolf Sr. was really the guy with the eye for QB's it seems to me.  Favre, Hasselback, had Warner in camp.  Peterson may not have been anything more than a back-up but was a clear contributor in other ways per the reporting.

I agree Ted didn't have the eye necessarily either.  He had Vince Young and some other guy for an entire camp before he figured out they couldn't play.  He cycled a bunch of rejects through as backups, though I wonder if that is because he didn't value the backup position the way Ron Wolf did.

It isn't like Gute was finding a bunch of good back ups for Ted though.

Gute may end up being a genius with QB's.  I don't know that he isn't. As I have said before, I think a lot of the hype on Kizer was just hype, but if it wasn't, then that's not reassuring.

Like I said, I hope that he proves me wrong.

 

[MacReady]

Just now, OneTwoSixFive said:

Marv Levy with the Bills 1988 to 1993 went 
1988 loss in AFC championship
1989 loss in Divisional game
then loses in the Superbowl in four consecutive years 1990 - 1993.

Still one of the finest coaching jobs ever (imo), and a terrible shame the Bills couldn't get at least one Superb Owl in that period.

Yeah and that was before free agency.  It's invalid right now.  I feel heartbreak for Bills fans everywhere every time I'm reminded of this, but in the era before free agency... Nothing is similar or even relevant to today. 

[Patriotplayer90]

9 minutes ago, Outpost31 said:

You can never explain season to season disparity to casual fans.  You can't, you cannot.

You can even challenge them to list a single solitary Super Bowl losing team outside of the Patriots who repeated and got back to the Championship round the following year and they'll say that doesn't matter.

The Rams fell utterly apart after going all in.  Trading this, trading that, signing this and that and hey, he's ours too you can't sign him we're signing him and that one and him, they're all ours.

The Falcons lost the Divisional round and have been out of the playoffs two straight years.

Panthers didn't win 7 games, then lost in the Wild Card, missed the playoffs two years straight.

Broncos didn't win a playoff game. 

The Niners went through the same thing the last time they lost the Super Bowl.  Lost the Championship round and they went five years without getting back to the playoffs. 

But they replaced two significant players with rookies and they're suddenly unstoppable.  More likely than not they don't even make the playoffs. 

The quickest way to have a losing season is to panic and get too aggressive.  Super Bowl teams are not built in single moves, but steady, patient, practical moves over three years. 

You can trace the Chiefs Super Bowl win to their moves. 

2016 - Use their first pick on DL (Chris Jones, their defensive MVP).  They don't panic and get weapons, they take a risk on Tyreek Hill in the 5th round.

2017 - They draft their QBOFT with the plan of sitting him for a full year.

2018 - Speaks, Nnadi, O'Daniel, Watts, Smith, McKenzie.  I don't recognize a single name from this draft class.

2019 - Mecole Hardman.  For a team that has Hill, Watkins, Kelce, they draft a player they feel is the best available. 

Nothing the Chiefs have done over the past 4 years reeks of panic or aggression.  Their biggest move last offseason leading to their Super Bowl win was what many considered a downgrade of trading Ford for Clark and getting worse compensation for what many considered a downgrade and Clark has a massive postseason and helps them win a Super Bowl.

 

KC became aggressive at acquiring talent to put the team over the top as soon as they had Mahomes, particularly on offense.  Signing Watkins to big money, trading picks for Ford, a 2nd on a deep threat WR, 1st on a RB. The kind of moves that people said were missing and ultimately a waste of Rodgers' prime.  Now maybe it's too late, maybe not.  They were on the right path last year, it would have been nice for them to stay their instead of being redundant with the first two picks and drafting guys who are generally regarded as reaches on day 2

[MacReady]

2 minutes ago, Patriotplayer90 said:

KC became aggressive at acquiring talent to put the team over the top as soon as they had Mahomes, particularly on offense.  Signing Watkins to big money, trading picks for Ford, a 2nd on a deep threat WR, 1st on a RB. The kind of moves that people said were missing and ultimately a waste of Rodgers' prime.  Now maybe it's too late, maybe not.  They were on the right path last year, it would have been nice for them to stay their instead of being redundant with the first two picks and drafting guys who are generally regarded as reaches on day 2

Lol.  They did not use a first round pick on a running back until this year.  They traded Ford because they knew they could not re-sign him and THEN replaced him. That is literally no different... Yes, it is entirely different.  We went out and signed two pass rushers in free agency that both had better seasons than Ford or Clark.

You’re also acting like Watkins was wildly influential.  He wasn’t.  He has had 6 touchdowns and 1,200 yards in two seasons with the Chiefs.  Do you consider that a good trade?  
 

Hardman has virtually no impact on their run.  He had 4 catches for 29 yards and zero touchdowns in the playoffs.

He was, like Dillon, likeLove, like Josiah D, a draft pick for the future.  
 

In other words you have no idea what you are talking about.

[Ragnar Danneskjold]

2 minutes ago, Outpost31 said:

Lol.  They did not use a first round pick on a running back until this year.  They traded Ford because they knew they could not re-sign him and THEN replaced him. That is literally no different... Yes, it is entirely different.  We went out and signed two pass rushers in free agency that both had better seasons than Ford or Clark.

You’re also acting like Watkins was wildly influential.  He wasn’t.  He has had 6 touchdowns and 1,200 yards in two seasons with the Chiefs.  Do you consider that a good trade?  
 

Hardman has virtually no impact on their run.  He had 4 catches for 29 yards and zero touchdowns in the playoffs.

He was, like Dillon, likeLove, like Josiah D, a draft pick for the future.  
 

In other words you have no idea what you are talking about.

I am disappointed that the salary cap expenditure for the two QB's never showed up in your post.

[Patriotplayer90]

10 minutes ago, Outpost31 said:

Lol.  They did not use a first round pick on a running back until this year.  They traded Ford because they knew they could not re-sign him and THEN replaced him. That is literally no different... Yes, it is entirely different.  We went out and signed two pass rushers in free agency that both had better seasons than Ford or Clark.

You’re also acting like Watkins was wildly influential.  He wasn’t.  He has had 6 touchdowns and 1,200 yards in two seasons with the Chiefs.  Do you consider that a good trade?  
 

Hardman has virtually no impact on their run.  He had 4 catches for 29 yards and zero touchdowns in the playoffs.

He was, like Dillon, likeLove, like Josiah D, a draft pick for the future.  
 

In other words you have no idea what you are talking about.

My point was that they got aggressive in a way which refuted the point you made.  They steadily built the team while they had Smith.  The obviously stepped up the efforts with Mahomes and you can clearly see that.