Joe Posted April 27, 2020 Share Posted April 27, 2020 3 minutes ago, cannondale said: I guess the chase for the unicorn linebacker continues. The idea is awesome, finding the guy to execute it is damn hard. I still think it dies a slow death. We could've had someone rather close to that in the 3rd round...his name was Malik Harrison. We drafted a guy that could've been had in the 6th round....our 3rd round drafting woes continue... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
packfanfb Posted April 28, 2020 Share Posted April 28, 2020 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
{Family Ghost} Posted April 28, 2020 Share Posted April 28, 2020 It will be interesting to compare how Kamal Martin does vs. Justin Strnad, who the Broncos took three picks after. I must have selected Strnad about 100 times in mock drafts. He was one of my favorite mid round picks. I did have a Martin in the draft contest, but had him grouped in our last pick. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lieker Posted April 28, 2020 Share Posted April 28, 2020 7 minutes ago, packfanfb said: Very interesting. I heard a quote from Gute about the pick and he referenced the knee injury, missing games this past year, and that his tape back to 2018 was impressive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gypsy1027 Posted April 29, 2020 Share Posted April 29, 2020 I've been trying to sort out so many mixed feelings about this draft. It's not just quirky picks. There are the head-scratching omissions and strange priorities...like no defensive tackle, no cornerback. So the commentary on this forum is really appreciated, especially from so many experienced posters. ATHLON SPORTS lists its top 45 inside/outside linebackers for this draft, and Kamal Martin does not even appear on the list. WALTERFOOTBALL, an admittedly mediocre source, lists Martin as their 16th outside linebacker. Wow! The people expressing doubts and concerns here are not off-base to do so. I actually had a little more hope for the undrafted guy the Pack signed. While described as "average" in every way, Krys Barnes at least may have some sideline to sideline juice at 4.63 in the forty. Or am I just whistling in a dark and windy place here? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Packerraymond Posted April 29, 2020 Share Posted April 29, 2020 11 minutes ago, Gypsy1027 said: I've been trying to sort out so many mixed feelings about this draft. It's not just quirky picks. There are the head-scratching omissions and strange priorities...like no defensive tackle, no cornerback. So the commentary on this forum is really appreciated, especially from so many experienced posters. ATHLON SPORTS lists its top 45 inside/outside linebackers for this draft, and Kamal Martin does not even appear on the list. WALTERFOOTBALL, an admittedly mediocre source, lists Martin as their 16th outside linebacker. Wow! The people expressing doubts and concerns here are not off-base to do so. I actually had a little more hope for the undrafted guy the Pack signed. While described as "average" in every way, Krys Barnes at least may have some sideline to sideline juice at 4.63 in the forty. Or am I just whistling in a dark and windy place here? Martin is another guy that follows a common theme for this draft. They loved his 2018 tape and took the player based off that. Martin got hurt, played through a knee and then ultimately shut it down and had surgery in 2019. He's got 34 inch arms and they estimate him as a high 4.5's/low 4,6's kind of guy based off tape. You see above from Nagy the Senio Bowl staff was very high on him pre-injury too. These grading services dump guys that don't finish the season or do any pre-draft stuff due to injury. On day 3 I'm totally fine taking a prototype profile for the LB position who failed to show his stuff due to injury. We'll see what we have here when the pads come on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
packfanfb Posted April 29, 2020 Share Posted April 29, 2020 13 minutes ago, Packerraymond said: Martin is another guy that follows a common theme for this draft. They loved his 2018 tape and took the player based off that. Martin got hurt, played through a knee and then ultimately shut it down and had surgery in 2019. He's got 34 inch arms and they estimate him as a high 4.5's/low 4,6's kind of guy based off tape. You see above from Nagy the Senio Bowl staff was very high on him pre-injury too. These grading services dump guys that don't finish the season or do any pre-draft stuff due to injury. On day 3 I'm totally fine taking a prototype profile for the LB position who failed to show his stuff due to injury. We'll see what we have here when the pads come on. It's crazy that this has basically been the theme of the entire off-season, not just the draft. Wagner -- look at 2018, not 2019 Kirksey -- look at 2017 when he was healthy Funchess - look at 2017 and 2018 Love -- look at 2018 Martin -- look at 2018 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Packerraymond Posted April 29, 2020 Share Posted April 29, 2020 1 minute ago, packfanfb said: It's crazy that this has basically been the theme of the entire off-season, not just the draft. Wagner -- look at 2018, not 2019 Kirksey -- look at 2017 when he was healthy Funchess - look at 2017 and 2018 Love -- look at 2018 Martin -- look at 2018 We got value on all of them though. That has been the theme of the off-season, find guys who have played at a high level, get them for cheaper than you would've if they balled out last year. The three FA all would've been far more expensive going into FA after their best year. Love is probably a Charger/Dolphin if he duplicates his 2018, Martin continues the trend of 2018, has a good 2019, plays in the Senior Bowl, he's probably a day 2 pick graded similarly to Malik Harrison. Last off-season we had an abundance of capital, both FA and draft. We signed guys who were never hurt, and drafted the same way. This year Gute tried to maximize limited capital by using this tactic. We'll see how it works. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
packfanfb Posted April 29, 2020 Share Posted April 29, 2020 1 minute ago, Packerraymond said: We got value on all of them though. That has been the theme of the off-season, find guys who have played at a high level, get them for cheaper than you would've if they balled out last year. The three FA all would've been far more expensive going into FA after their best year. Love is probably a Charger/Dolphin if he duplicates his 2018, Martin continues the trend of 2018, has a good 2019, plays in the Senior Bowl, he's probably a day 2 pick graded similarly to Malik Harrison. Last off-season we had an abundance of capital, both FA and draft. We signed guys who were never hurt, and drafted the same way. This year Gute tried to maximize limited capital by using this tactic. We'll see how it works. Probably can throw Stepaniak in there as well. Probably goes a round or maybe two higher without the ACL. Guy was a pretty dominant guard in the passing game at Indiana last year. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikemike778 Posted April 29, 2020 Share Posted April 29, 2020 3 minutes ago, packfanfb said: It's crazy that this has basically been the theme of the entire off-season, not just the draft. Wagner -- look at 2018, not 2019 Kirksey -- look at 2017 when he was healthy Funchess - look at 2017 and 2018 Love -- look at 2018 Martin -- look at 2018 No issues if they took this approach with Martin ... a late 5th is just a punt, no issues with taking a shot at a guy based on his 2018 tape. Kirksey and Funchess though, do you think the head office got complacent after a relatively healthy season ? Would we be taking this many shot at players with injury issues in 2018 if we had come off another year decimated by injuries ? Or do we just have a quota of injury concern players and with letting Bulaga go, we have room for another couple Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fox_NFLs_GG Posted April 29, 2020 Share Posted April 29, 2020 (edited) 13 minutes ago, packfanfb said: It's crazy that this has basically been the theme of the entire off-season, not just the draft. Wagner -- look at 2018, not 2019 Kirksey -- look at 2017 when he was healthy Funchess - look at 2017 and 2018 Love -- look at 2018 Martin -- look at 2018 It shows that they did their homework, unlike the masters at the keyboard. They factored in multi-year performances and looked at the reason's why there was a drop off and what would correct it. They even went to Canada to find a DB with top speed and size. It shows they are looking everywhere too. Edited April 29, 2020 by Fox_NFLs_GG Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
packfanfb Posted April 29, 2020 Share Posted April 29, 2020 Just now, mikemike778 said: No issues if they took this approach with Martin ... a late 5th is just a punt, no issues with taking a shot at a guy based on his 2018 tape. Kirksey and Funchess though, do you think the head office got complacent after a relatively healthy season ? Would we be taking this many shot at players with injury issues in 2018 if we had come off another year decimated by injuries ? Or do we just have a quota of injury concern players and with letting Bulaga go, we have room for another couple More about the value as Ray alluded to. If Kirksey had a healthy year in 2019, he would have gotten money at least equal, if not more than Martinez/Schobert ($10m/year range). We got him on a dime because of the recent injury history. Same with Wagner. I mean we got Wagner, who's been a pretty solid starting RT for several years with Baltimore and Detroit for $5.5 m AAV when lesser guys like George Fant and Vitai got $10m AAV contracts. All because Wagner is coming off a "down year" when he was dealing with an injury. Same with Funchess. I've said before that if Funchess simply played all 16 games last year with Indy and had even average No. 2 WR stats (because he was signed to be the No. 2 guy next to Hilton), he would have gotten $9-10m AAV this off-season, especially in a crappy WR class. We got him for $2.5m. We had limited resources this year and we got players who, when they are right, are worth 2-3 times what we're paying them. Just have to hope they are right physically. If so, we win big. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lodestar Posted April 29, 2020 Share Posted April 29, 2020 2 minutes ago, Gypsy1027 said: I've been trying to sort out so many mixed feelings about this draft. It's not just quirky picks. There are the head-scratching omissions and strange priorities...like no defensive tackle, no cornerback. So the commentary on this forum is really appreciated, especially from so many experienced posters. ATHLON SPORTS lists its top 45 inside/outside linebackers for this draft, and Kamal Martin does not even appear on the list. WALTERFOOTBALL, an admittedly mediocre source, lists Martin as their 16th outside linebacker. Wow! The people expressing doubts and concerns here are not off-base to do so. I actually had a little more hope for the undrafted guy the Pack signed. While described as "average" in every way, Krys Barnes at least may have some sideline to sideline juice at 4.63 in the forty. Or am I just whistling in a dark and windy place here? The answer is that Gute is a lazy bum. Instead of driving to the nearest gas station and buying a copy of Athlon Sports, or doing some simple googling and getting that good draft info from Walter Football, the big galoot spends all day watching tape and making his own evaluations. Inexcusable. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikemike778 Posted April 29, 2020 Share Posted April 29, 2020 2 hours ago, packfanfb said: More about the value as Ray alluded to. If Kirksey had a healthy year in 2019, he would have gotten money at least equal, if not more than Martinez/Schobert ($10m/year range). We got him on a dime because of the recent injury history. Same with Wagner. I mean we got Wagner, who's been a pretty solid starting RT for several years with Baltimore and Detroit for $5.5 m AAV when lesser guys like George Fant and Vitai got $10m AAV contracts. All because Wagner is coming off a "down year" when he was dealing with an injury. Same with Funchess. I've said before that if Funchess simply played all 16 games last year with Indy and had even average No. 2 WR stats (because he was signed to be the No. 2 guy next to Hilton), he would have gotten $9-10m AAV this off-season, especially in a crappy WR class. We got him for $2.5m. We had limited resources this year and we got players who, when they are right, are worth 2-3 times what we're paying them. Just have to hope they are right physically. If so, we win big. I understand why we did it and the potential value ... The point remains though, would we have taken as many chances on players coming off injuries if our 2019 season was badly hit by injuries ? When you have had a year crippled by injuries then you probably put more value on availability. When you've had a year relatively healthy then it may dip a bit in your priorities. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThatJerkDave Posted April 29, 2020 Share Posted April 29, 2020 1 hour ago, mikemike778 said: No issues if they took this approach with Martin ... a late 5th is just a punt, no issues with taking a shot at a guy based on his 2018 tape. Kirksey and Funchess though, do you think the head office got complacent after a relatively healthy season ? Would we be taking this many shot at players with injury issues in 2018 if we had come off another year decimated by injuries ? Or do we just have a quota of injury concern players and with letting Bulaga go, we have room for another couple I think this was just a factor of economics, not any kind of philosophy change. We had less money to work with and some huge pending free agents in the next couple of seasons. We don't want to be in the position of not re-signing Bakhtiari or Clark, or having to gut the team to do so. Wagner is 11 million for 2 years. Bulaga is 4.8 this season, but 11 million in 2021. Funches is ~2.3 million for 1 year. Almost all of the top WRs were in the 10 per year range. Kirksey is 13 million over 2 years. Martinez is 10 million per year for 3 years. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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