rbens06 Posted August 6, 2020 Share Posted August 6, 2020 11 hours ago, fattlipp said: I read somewhere that the Pack should target Hakeem Butler in a trade, I like that idea, future conditional 3rd Might work... put Butler and Lazard back together in 3WR sets.. Curtis Samuel and John Ross were also mentioned... Butler was drafted in the fourth round, so I would hate trading a 3rd, even conditional, for a guy that was a fourth round pick and missed all of last season. I'm not a huge fan of Butler anyways, especially since we have a similar player in Lazard. If we were to target a Cardinals receiver I would shoot for Kirk, but that likely would not happen or cost more than what we would want to give. Samuel and Ross would be two guys I would not mind seeing, if they can be had for good value. Both are different than what we already have on the roster and do add return ability; I know we have Ervin for return duties, but it would allow us flexibility to let him go and keep another body elsewhere. With that said, I am not sure those type of guys fit into LaFleur's offense. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rbens06 Posted August 6, 2020 Share Posted August 6, 2020 42 minutes ago, vegas492 said: He also saw fewer targets in year two, when Adams saw more. And we know the talent level of WR's on the roster when Adams was young is very different from what we have around MVS today. Something did not click last year. I hope that @Outpost31 is right concerning him. But I thought that last year, too. Could be that he just hasn't progressed at reading defenses and is still slow in perfecting his route running. Adams early seemed to have a good feel for open space and from what I remember was a good route runner even early in his career. MVS might not have the route tree, or the technique needed, to run the full tree. Guy can fly down the field, but if that is primarily what he does when he is on the field teams can take that away from him.........Pure speculation, but possibly why it didn't click for him. I hope he develops and becomes more well rounded; this will be a big year for him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rbens06 Posted August 6, 2020 Share Posted August 6, 2020 13 minutes ago, {Family Ghost} said: Gute needs to quit coming up short on adding a legit wideout to this team. Couldn't land Allen Robinson a few years ago .. failed to swing a Robby Anderson or Emmanuel Sanders deal last year .. failed to get either Anderson or Sanders inked this offseason ... failed to draft a receiver in this past draft. Settled for Funchess. Funchess is now gone and it's probably time for Gute to get serious and figure out a way to add a legit WR option to this team. Based on recent history though Gute is going to come up short. I can't blame him really for any of those "misses" all those guys signed big deals in their respective offseasons. Robinson because of his age I can see making a stronger push for, but he was coming off a torn ACL. Sanders trade for a fifth I would have been ok with last season. I was never a Robby Anderson guy so I am happy we didn't trade for him or sign him at that money. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
{Family Ghost} Posted August 6, 2020 Share Posted August 6, 2020 12 minutes ago, rbens06 said: I can't blame him really for any of those "misses" all those guys signed big deals in their respective offseasons. Robinson because of his age I can see making a stronger push for, but he was coming off a torn ACL. Sanders trade for a fifth I would have been ok with last season. I was never a Robby Anderson guy so I am happy we didn't trade for him or sign him at that money. You gotta pay to play and Gute has come up short of several targets he was interested in. Coming up short did work out once for Gute .. the Mack deal. The Packers wound up in far better shape by missing out on that. I'm not seeing the benefit of coming up short at wide receiver year after year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
packfanfb Posted August 6, 2020 Share Posted August 6, 2020 (edited) 19 hours ago, Outpost31 said: Same reason Aaron Jones was a 5th round pick? MVS is having a 1,000 yard, 10 TD season this year if there is a year. I'd be ecstatic. I'll be happy with 50/500/5 tbh. Edited August 6, 2020 by packfanfb Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Bad Example Posted August 6, 2020 Share Posted August 6, 2020 16 hours ago, fattlipp said: I read somewhere that the Pack should target Hakeem Butler in a trade, I like that idea, future conditional 3rd Might work... put Butler and Lazard back together in 3WR sets.. Curtis Samuel and John Ross were also mentioned... John Ross is definitely a "he's cheap, let's kick the tires" acquisition. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
packfanfb Posted August 6, 2020 Share Posted August 6, 2020 4 hours ago, {Family Ghost} said: Gute needs to quit coming up short on adding a legit wideout to this team. Couldn't land Allen Robinson a few years ago .. failed to swing a Robby Anderson or Emmanuel Sanders deal last year .. failed to get either Anderson or Sanders inked this offseason ... failed to draft a receiver in this past draft. Settled for Funchess. Funchess is now gone and it's probably time for Gute to get serious and figure out a way to add a legit WR option to this team. Based on recent history though Gute is going to come up short. Yea, unfortunately Robinson was a HUGE miss and then we spent those funds on Graham. That series of events, IMO, probably cost us a SB appearance because Robinson is exactly what we need to pair with Adams. Not getting Sanders last year (and even more importantly, allowing him to go to SF) was very costly as well. No way in hell SF gets the No. 1 seed without adding Sanders. He was key down the stretch for them, and made a few catches in the win against LAR that won the game for SF. Without him (even if he's not on GB) and we likely get the No. 1 seed. Now of course, maybe SF beats us at Lambeau anyways, but I guarantee you it would have been a much closer contest. Then, adding insult to injury, we lose out on Sanders a second time, this time to the other NFC contender, the Saints. None of this is expressly Gute's fault by any means (the player has to agree to the deal too), but there is something to say about any profession...."trying" and "failing" are the same thing. You either get the job done or you don't. Gute has landed some splashes on defense, but hasn't had the same success on offense so far. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
packfanfb Posted August 6, 2020 Share Posted August 6, 2020 Fair, objective assessment, and pretty consistent with several of us who have repeatedly said Lazard is likely your No. 3-type player, assuming he doesn't regress from last year. This team still doesn't have a No. 2 guy. They haven't had one since 2016 with Jordy/Adams. More than likely they won't have one in 2020 either. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rbens06 Posted August 6, 2020 Share Posted August 6, 2020 3 hours ago, {Family Ghost} said: You gotta pay to play and Gute has come up short of several targets he was interested in. Coming up short did work out once for Gute .. the Mack deal. The Packers wound up in far better shape by missing out on that. I'm not seeing the benefit of coming up short at wide receiver year after year. I agree with this to some extent. Last year we did have three young guys that had promise, Geronimo was nothing special, but still hope he could have taken another step in his game. I don't fault him for not trading in season for either of the two as we don't know the Jets compensation request for Anderson and if you were not confident in re-signing him you wouldn't give a high pick up. Sanders, hindsight, would have been nice to have for a 5th, but at the time we were winning albeit with some lackluster passing games, but still winning, so I understand not messing with that, but for a 5th I would have risked it. Robinson, if you look with hindsight, we likely do not have one of the Smiths, and likely at least one of Amos and Turner. Its not like we rolled over 20-30 million and just didnt spend the money. Also, remember we paid Jimmy Graham in hopes to take on some of the pressure in the passing game, he just didn't work out, so he did try. I also don't think you have to pay to play, we consistently had a good set of receivers without making a splash in free agency for them. Investing more than some mid round picks would have been nice, but I don't think we have to go out and spend money for a WR when historically we have proven we can develop them, we just need to draft the guys to develop under Gute. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rbens06 Posted August 6, 2020 Share Posted August 6, 2020 2 hours ago, packfanfb said: Yea, unfortunately Robinson was a HUGE miss and then we spent those funds on Graham. That series of events, IMO, probably cost us a SB appearance because Robinson is exactly what we need to pair with Adams. Not getting Sanders last year (and even more importantly, allowing him to go to SF) was very costly as well. No way in hell SF gets the No. 1 seed without adding Sanders. He was key down the stretch for them, and made a few catches in the win against LAR that won the game for SF. Without him (even if he's not on GB) and we likely get the No. 1 seed. Now of course, maybe SF beats us at Lambeau anyways, but I guarantee you it would have been a much closer contest. Then, adding insult to injury, we lose out on Sanders a second time, this time to the other NFC contender, the Saints. None of this is expressly Gute's fault by any means (the player has to agree to the deal too), but there is something to say about any profession...."trying" and "failing" are the same thing. You either get the job done or you don't. Gute has landed some splashes on defense, but hasn't had the same success on offense so far. I think that is the biggest part that hurts, we missed on Robinson, which I can understand being cautious and not offering as much as he got as he was coming off a torn ACL and so there was a huge risk in there for signing him. He never regains form and you are stuck with that contract for 3 years. Good thing is he is up again and only 28 so we have another crack at getting him if we want to! Good point on Sanders, likely did propel them into that spot, but as you noted too it takes two sides to make a deal. Could be the Broncos simply were asking too much when we called and then closer to the deadline the price tag came down. Still, for a 5th round pick it makes for a harder pill to swallow. I would say it is more of failing than a lack of trying; he tried and missed on Robinson, but then failed with Graham. If Graham plays to his old form a lesser number 2 would be more manageable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brat&Beer Posted August 6, 2020 Share Posted August 6, 2020 22 hours ago, Outpost31 said: Same reason Aaron Jones was a 5th round pick? MVS is having a 1,000 yard, 10 TD season this year if there is a year. Considering how much the Packers figure to run the ball, and how much they throw to their backs, and the likelihood they'll try to get the TE's more involved, I think it's highly unlikely any WR not named Adams will approach those kind of numbers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MacReady Posted August 6, 2020 Share Posted August 6, 2020 2 hours ago, packfanfb said: I'd be ecstatic. I'll be happy with 50/500/5 tbh. He was 48 yards shy of 500 his rookie year and 81 over in his second year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
packfanfb Posted August 6, 2020 Share Posted August 6, 2020 13 minutes ago, Outpost31 said: He was 48 yards shy of 500 his rookie year and 81 over in his second year. Yup. So you're expecting a jump. I'm really not. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fattlipp Posted August 7, 2020 Share Posted August 7, 2020 12 hours ago, rbens06 said: Butler was drafted in the fourth round, so I would hate trading a 3rd, even conditional, for a guy that was a fourth round pick and missed all of last season. I'm not a huge fan of Butler anyways, especially since we have a similar player in Lazard. If we were to target a Cardinals receiver I would shoot for Kirk, but that likely would not happen or cost more than what we would want to give. Samuel and Ross would be two guys I would not mind seeing, if they can be had for good value. Both are different than what we already have on the roster and do add return ability; I know we have Ervin for return duties, but it would allow us flexibility to let him go and keep another body elsewhere. With that said, I am not sure those type of guys fit into LaFleur's offense. Yeah, Butler is 6’6 with 4.48 speed, he’s like the best parts of MVS morphed with Lazard.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spilltray Posted August 7, 2020 Share Posted August 7, 2020 I don't think WR depth is going to be all that big a deal because I don't see the Packers playing as much spread offense, by plan, and circumstance. Spread passing takes timing and reps to get that timing. Being so practice limited and wanting to move towards more 2 RB or 2 TE sets means you don't need 3 starters and 2 capable backups to run your base O. You need 2 and 1 still. I take this years draft class as a message that that was the intended move all along, but the limited offseason and training camp make me double down. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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