Packers 2020 WR Corps

[Cakeshoppe]

6 minutes ago, Beast said:

 Davis, Kumerow, Shepherd and Kumerow all out played him in the preseason games.

all four of them huh?

[vegas492]

We are talking about an end of the depth chart WR.  EQ.  Kumerow.  I"ll throw Belgelton in there as well.

If you are making the team, specials comes into play big time.  

Say what you want about Kumerow, whether you like him, love him or indifferent, he is a good and willing special teams player.  I don't know if EQ or Belgelton is, or is not.

But let's not rule specials out of this.  

[VonKarman]

4 hours ago, Beast said:

Based on 2019 preseason games, St. Brown struggled and looked like was going to get beat out for a roster spot, by less talented guys playing better than him, as Davis, Kumerow, Shepherd and Kumerow all out played him in the preseason games. And I thought he was going to be released if he didn't step it up, and then he got injured.

Not to mention, Rodgers was praising WRs left and right, even when he wasn't asked about them, only to barely mention St. Brown even and only after reporters brought him up.

St. Brown has a ton of potential, but his 2019 preseason sucked... he looked so much better as a rookie. I hoping it's the WR coach, who's now gone, but I don't know. Then again, they did make the silly decision to release Lazard... they were lucky to keep him.

 

Hopefully we see more of the 2018 St. Brown than the 2019 one.

Lol no, journalists were looking for the next great white Wisconsinite hope. Players who are certain to make the roster are not talked about much. Adams wasn't for example. He didn't struggle, that's just making **** up (you won't find any reports saying that). You thought wrong about him getting released, made no sense, doesn't make it know either. At the end of 2018 Saint Brown was ahead of MVS as well (MVS was the better rookie overall, but in the last 5 games or so St. Brown surpassed him). Then he got injured. If he hadn't, he had a much bigger chance of being our WR2 than being cut.

Edited June 30, 2020 by VonKarman

[craig]

On 6/28/2020 at 10:53 AM, Kepler said:

I really hope there's no scenario in which GB cuts either MVS or EQ but keeps Kumerow. This nonsense needs to stop.

MLF is the coach.  Hard to know what he might prefer.  

*IF* there is a surprise cut, it's EQ.  

Seems to me that barring injury, that Adams-Lazard-Funchess-MVS are locks.  (vegas suggested Funchess as a possible surprise cut; that would probably involve some lack of injury-recovery, which is totally possible.) 

I think MVS's roster safety is underrated.  MVS wrenched his ankle in Detroit; that may have factored into subsequent diminishment.  I don't think he has the instincts, hands, or body-balance of the other six guys; but his deep speed just adds a unique weapon to the room, and I don't think they'll release that.  He's still a lock: if he's healthy all year, or maybe steps up some, and/or if Rodgers steps up some and throws more decnet deep balls, MVS could be a big weapon when single-covered in play action.  

It's EQ, Kumerow, Begelton competing for spots 5 and/or 6.  EQ won't necessarily win, so *if* there is a surprise cut, of course it's EQ.  

I'd love to have him emerge.  I loved his hands as a rookie, and thought he showed body-control, as in that San Fran catch.  He seemed an aggressive, good-effort blocker (although not a smart blocker as a rookie).   I'd love to see him emerge as a good player. 

But I also think we may be imagining too much for him; he might just be a Kumerow?  Not fast, no quickness, easy for a corner to mirror and cover.  He's got no quickness, no shifty moves; he's never going to fake out or run away from any safeties or CB.  For him to make catches, I assume he's going to need to either get schemed open, or develop a sense for soft spots, or else have the QB trust his hands and length enough to throw contested balls to a not-that-open version.  Tall but not quick, and not good at getting open on his own, isn't that pretty much the Kumerow profile?  So yeah, I'm kinda nervous that assuming we keep EQ for his potential, that he'll never actually be much more than a modestly up-tooled Kumerow.  

Obviously I'd rather gamble on the possibility that he will be more.  He *MIGHT* never be more than a Kumerow; but there's no doubt that Kumerow will never be more than Kumerow!    So I'm gamble on the possibility that maybe EQ *MIGHT* end up becoming much more.  

[Beast]

10 hours ago, Cakeshoppe said:

all four of them huh?

Meant Lazard as one of them.

5 hours ago, VonKarman said:

Lol no, journalists were looking for the next great white Wisconsinite hope. Players who are certain to make the roster are not talked about much. Adams wasn't for example. He didn't struggle, that's just making **** up (you won't find any reports saying that). You thought wrong about him getting released, made no sense, doesn't make it know either. At the end of 2018 Saint Brown was ahead of MVS as well (MVS was the better rookie overall, but in the last 5 games or so St. Brown surpassed him). Then he got injured. If he hadn't, he had a much bigger chance of being our WR2 than being cut.

So first you try to claim people are being racist, which I guess explains why Aaron Rodgers being the clear racist that he is, kept hyping Kumerow along with the black WRs, but rarely mentioned St. Brown.

Preseason is the fluff time of the year, so the hype up the interesting matchups which the backup WRs were. And yet nothing was written about St. Brown because he did nothing, literally only 1 catch in 3 preseason games.

And he was running with the #2 offense, with Kumerow, getting about the same number of snaps, and he had 7 catches. But I guess that's racist too.

Adams was a lock and not playing, Allison and MVS were running with the #1s, Kumerow despite clearly having less potential, was clearly out playing St. Brown, Davis had one explosive game and was the return man.

St. Brown no doubt was a hell lot more potential, than a lot of these others, but he was competing for the 6th WR spot.

And Lazard and Shepherd were making a lot of plays, both at WR in preseason games (going against worse CB), but reportedly also on ST practices with Sherperd as a returner and Lazard reportedly dominating on kick coverage and blocking for what's expected from a WR.

This only has to do with performance, St. Brown truely did not stand out in 2019 preseason game, as much as all the WRs he was facing, despite the fact he should be near the top of the list.

[Beast]

2 hours ago, craig said:

MLF is the coach.  Hard to know what he might prefer.  

*IF* there is a surprise cut, it's EQ.  

Seems to me that barring injury, that Adams-Lazard-Funchess-MVS are locks.  (vegas suggested Funchess as a possible surprise cut; that would probably involve some lack of injury-recovery, which is totally possible.) 

I think MVS's roster safety is underrated.  MVS wrenched his ankle in Detroit; that may have factored into subsequent diminishment.  I don't think he has the instincts, hands, or body-balance of the other six guys; but his deep speed just adds a unique weapon to the room, and I don't think they'll release that.  He's still a lock: if he's healthy all year, or maybe steps up some, and/or if Rodgers steps up some and throws more decnet deep balls, MVS could be a big weapon when single-covered in play action.  

It's EQ, Kumerow, Begelton competing for spots 5 and/or 6.  EQ won't necessarily win, so *if* there is a surprise cut, of course it's EQ.  

MLF is the coach, but Gute is the GM, and if he's drafting is any tell, he loves chasing ceiling level potential. Which is bad news for Kumerow.

I completely agree with your outlook. MVS and Lazard both showed small sample stretches of putting up low #2 numbers (if you were to stretch it.out to 16 games). And it would seem surprising if they released Funchess, whom I think they're going to try at the slot role which is very important in this offense and either it's Funchess, a TE (mostly Sternberger), St. Brown or Adams in that role, and I think they'd like to be able to keep Adams working the outside.

So I think it's incredible strong chance that St. Brown is kept, but that's if we see the 2018 version again. The 2019 preseason game one was in a funk.

I'm very much hoping it was the WR coach, as he's gone and I thought they made a number.of questionable calls, like releasing Lazard. 

 

[spilltray]

I go to a fair amount of practices too. Both MVS and ESB were routinely "spoken to" about not being where they should be and getting the route/read wrong. MVS not as much but those two easily more than any other WR in camp last year. They were definitely both struggling to pick up the offense. Can they sometimes make plays? Sure, no game is ever perfect and you work with the best you can, but they both make too many mistakes to be consistent.

[vegas492]

10 hours ago, Beast said:

MLF is the coach, but Gute is the GM, and if he's drafting is any tell, he loves chasing ceiling level potential. Which is bad news for Kumerow.

I completely agree with your outlook. MVS and Lazard both showed small sample stretches of putting up low #2 numbers (if you were to stretch it.out to 16 games). And it would seem surprising if they released Funchess, whom I think they're going to try at the slot role which is very important in this offense and either it's Funchess, a TE (mostly Sternberger), St. Brown or Adams in that role, and I think they'd like to be able to keep Adams working the outside.

So I think it's incredible strong chance that St. Brown is kept, but that's if we see the 2018 version again. The 2019 preseason game one was in a funk.

I'm very much hoping it was the WR coach, as he's gone and I thought they made a number.of questionable calls, like releasing Lazard. 

 

I"m not taking any exception to this post.

But...I'll add this regarding the slot position next year.

It's all Adams.  He's our best slot receiver and our best boundary receiver.  GB will continue to move him around to get the best possible matchup for him.

If it isn't Adams in the slot, it is because we want a better blocker in there for a screen or run.

If you want to make the WR squad in GB, you need to have size, which everyone does.  You need to be able to play outside and inside.  And you need to be able to run block, not just put in the effort, but actually get results.  Add in specials.

[Dubz41]

11 hours ago, Beast said:

So I think it's incredible strong chance that St. Brown is kept, but that's if we see the 2018 version again. The 2019 preseason game one was in a funk.

I'm very much hoping it was the WR coach, as he's gone and I thought they made a number.of questionable calls, like releasing Lazard. 

 

  https://packerswire.usatoday.com/2019/08/20/packers-camp-notes-equanimeous-st-brown-produces-really-nice-camp/

Don't judge him on one preseason game.  He was having an unspectacular, but solid camp.

[Beast]

2 hours ago, Dubz41 said:

  https://packerswire.usatoday.com/2019/08/20/packers-camp-notes-equanimeous-st-brown-produces-really-nice-camp/

Don't judge him on one preseason game.  He was having an unspectacular, but solid camp.

I'm not judging him on one preseason game, I'm judging him in all the 2019 preseason games, where he did slightly more than nothing. And Gute talked about when the light go on in games where he's looking for people to step up and show what they got, and St. Brown fell on his face.

This is the preseason where they overhype everything, where (some) Vikings fans (that I know) think this is their year to win the Super Bowl, due to the hype... and Rodgers is hyping WRs left and right, but they had nothing of St. Brown to hype other than "he’s been very consistent" and that's what we're supposed to be saying about the less talented players like Kumerow, whom just somehow stick around and don't make many plays.

St. Brown is clearly more talented than Kumerow, but Kumerow somehow clearly out played him in the preseason games.

I look forward to St. Brown breaking out, as he's got tons of potential, but he can't have too many of those preseason where he completely disappears.

I'm just saying the guy needs to step it up from last year... that isn't going to cut it. I'm still hoping it was simply he was struggling to learn the new system and playing slower because of it, and he now knows the system and will break out with ease.

 

[Beast]

3 hours ago, vegas492 said:

I"m not taking any exception to this post.

But...I'll add this regarding the slot position next year.

It's all Adams.  He's our best slot receiver and our best boundary receiver.  GB will continue to move him around to get the best possible matchup for him.

If it isn't Adams in the slot, it is because we want a better blocker in there for a screen or run.

If you want to make the WR squad in GB, you need to have size, which everyone does.  You need to be able to play outside and inside.  And you need to be able to run block, not just put in the effort, but actually get results.  Add in specials.

Yeah Adams will certainly get moved around, but the slot in this system can be schemed open easier and be used more as a blocker.

Where Adams doesn't need to be schemed open nearly as much as others, he can do it on his own, so it'd be preferable to have Adams on the outside getting open and scheming a guy in the middle. Plus a TE might be a better blocker.

[skibrett15]

Funchess is a really easy cut if EQ AND MVS AND Kumerow AND Lazard are who everyone wants them to be in this thread.

 

When Funchess isn't cut, it's because the younger and less experienced players aren't actually that good.

[vegas492]

19 minutes ago, skibrett15 said:

Funchess is a really easy cut if EQ AND MVS AND Kumerow AND Lazard are who everyone wants them to be in this thread.

 

When Funchess isn't cut, it's because the younger and less experienced players aren't actually that good.

Not quite.  If Lazard and MVS are clearly better than Funchess, then you have a situation where you may not want to keep a vet on a one year deal.  Especially if EQ and Kumerow are rated similarly.

I don't expect it will go down that way.  That's why Fun would be a "surprise" cut.

I expect Lazard gets better and take a step forward.

I expect MVS to be MVS.  And that is fine.

I expect Kumerow to be Kumerow and that is replaceable.

EQ is the wild card.  I hope for a big jump, but I really don't know.  

[deathstar]

IMO the only way our WRs aren’t Adams, Lazard, MVS, Funchess, EQ is if there’s an injury.

[Norm]

On 6/30/2020 at 11:04 PM, Beast said:

rarely mentioned St. Brown.

Maybe someone addressed this, but this is because every reporter around was like OMG KUMEROW THIS KUMEROW THAT, 90% of that stuff was him responding to questions and nobody was asking anything about ESB.