Post Draft Big Picture Bears Thoughts

[beardown3231]

2 minutes ago, soulman said:

Shane, others may allow you to reframe your arguments to suit your purpose as you go, I won't.

And if you believe my post was just bull**** then just stop responding to me as I will with you.  That'll take care of any disagreements.

You're on a message board. People disagree. You don't need to take it so personal every single argument. 

[abstract_thought]

16 hours ago, soulman said:

Gimme a dominant defense and a smart capable QB who can avoid costly turnovers and keep an offense moving and scoring consistently and I'll be in the hunt for the SB every year.

How many years do Bears fans need to be disappointed by this approach?

I'm not saying the Bears should sell the farm for Dak Prescott. But please stop pointing to QBs who are obviously bad as if they'll be long-term options for the Bears. Holding out hope for bad QBs is why this franchise has never had a good one.

[Sugashane]

2 hours ago, soulman said:

Shane, others may allow you to reframe your arguments to suit your purpose as you go, I won't.

And if you believe my post was just bull**** then just stop responding to me as I will with you.  That'll take care of any disagreements.

No, I’ll call bull**** when I see it, just as I expect anyone to call me out if I’m spewing it. So I’m reframing my argument? Interesting, lets see:

 

You ask if several people are franchise QBs = I give my honest opinion.

You define your term for franchise QB= that’s fine. It is a general term so that’s your term.

You say a dominant defense and essentially a game manager will put you in the Super Bowl hunt every year = I make points that game managers rarely have sustained success in the postseason, that franchise QBs are the ones making those runs with regularity. I use Foles as a prime example of journeymen having brief success with otherwise unnoteworthy careers, and name several other QBs that go against your point.  

You claim franchise QBs kill the cap and may lose depth = I ignore due to that claim being pretty well handled by the above point. I point out that average QBs like Flacco can still get massive paydays too.

You point out the $13.5 mil dead cap due to Brady = I point out his ridiculous success so that is a debt that is easily acceptable.

You say Rodgers is declining so they draft Love – I point out that they drafted him while Rodgers is still much better than what we have and that teams would rather pay him significantly more than Foles for much less. Rodgers is getting old and they need to think of the future just as they did with Favre when they drafted Rodgers.

You repeat that they dead cap hit is now because they made a specific deal = I again point out it is a one year issue and then they move on, inconsequential compared to the success he had over his career.

You made the claim the defense was why they won last year primarily = I put how much better Brady did than anyone we have and did so with two HOF talents missing. I also point out they scored the 7^th most points in the NFL, so clearly you exaggerate his failings, and point out our own failings

You claim “Brady couldn't even get them to the 2019 AFCC Game” and apparently ignore the defense’s failings in that game = I point out that the defense gave up over 200 rushing yards to TEN, so clearly the defense had a major part of that. I point out historically how the strong defense/game manager has failed in Chicago for the last 30 years.

You claim Brady basically screwed NE for one year = Yep, again I point out nearly 20 years of dominance is worth one bad year.

You point out NE fans are pissed = Duh… and so?

You point out GB fans used to think Favre walked on water (bringing up the past again) but came back in a MIN jersey = Same as Brady, worth it for all the division titles, the Super Bowl, the wins.

You point out that despite six SB wins (that’s the past too, right?) that NE fans are unhappy = Again… so? They would take the 20 years of success rather than football purgatory the Bears have been in because they not only had a franchise QB, that guy is the GOAT of all QBs to most.

You post a link about BB not drafting a QB = Irrelevant so I didn’t comment to it directly. Didn’t help your case at all, BB might be fine having a down year so it’s easier to make moves to get his guy or he might think McDaniels has done a good job with Stidham and wants to test the waters. If he wanted someone he could have made moves to get someone in FA, like cutting Sanu to get $6.5 mil or not franchise tagging a guard that is counting for over $14 mil against the cap. Between the two they’d have $20 mil to make a move and had 10 picks to be able to get who they wanted, which is quite a bit more than what we have. 

 

So, I replied to YOUR comments directly and back up my points, I didn’t seek you out, you initiated a reply on my comment, not the other way around. Then try to say I'm reframing my arguments even though clearly I've debated your own statements. 

In short, bull****.  lol   If you don't want to respond, don't. But make vague accusatory statements against me and I'll call you out on it. 

 

2 hours ago, beardown3231 said:

You're on a message board. People disagree. You don't need to take it so personal every single argument. 

 

Right. I've bumped head with you, G08, MadMike, and basically everyone else here over something. It's not personal, the debating is the best part of a message board. Who the hell would want to be part of an echo-chamber? lol 

[MonserinNC]

7 hours ago, beardown3231 said:

The deal isn't if things improve. The deal is if the Bears are a 12 win team you win, since after all, that's pretty much what you predicted in your post prior to this one.

Alright bet, I didnt say 12(I wouldnt doubt it though) I just know we wont be worse....I will meet you in the middle and guarantee 10 wins

[beardown3231]

10 hours ago, Sugashane said:

No, I’ll call bull**** when I see it, just as I expect anyone to call me out if I’m spewing it. So I’m reframing my argument? Interesting, lets see:

 

You ask if several people are franchise QBs = I give my honest opinion.

You define your term for franchise QB= that’s fine. It is a general term so that’s your term.

You say a dominant defense and essentially a game manager will put you in the Super Bowl hunt every year = I make points that game managers rarely have sustained success in the postseason, that franchise QBs are the ones making those runs with regularity. I use Foles as a prime example of journeymen having brief success with otherwise unnoteworthy careers, and name several other QBs that go against your point.  

You claim franchise QBs kill the cap and may lose depth = I ignore due to that claim being pretty well handled by the above point. I point out that average QBs like Flacco can still get massive paydays too.

You point out the $13.5 mil dead cap due to Brady = I point out his ridiculous success so that is a debt that is easily acceptable.

You say Rodgers is declining so they draft Love – I point out that they drafted him while Rodgers is still much better than what we have and that teams would rather pay him significantly more than Foles for much less. Rodgers is getting old and they need to think of the future just as they did with Favre when they drafted Rodgers.

You repeat that they dead cap hit is now because they made a specific deal = I again point out it is a one year issue and then they move on, inconsequential compared to the success he had over his career.

You made the claim the defense was why they won last year primarily = I put how much better Brady did than anyone we have and did so with two HOF talents missing. I also point out they scored the 7^th most points in the NFL, so clearly you exaggerate his failings, and point out our own failings

You claim “Brady couldn't even get them to the 2019 AFCC Game” and apparently ignore the defense’s failings in that game = I point out that the defense gave up over 200 rushing yards to TEN, so clearly the defense had a major part of that. I point out historically how the strong defense/game manager has failed in Chicago for the last 30 years.

You claim Brady basically screwed NE for one year = Yep, again I point out nearly 20 years of dominance is worth one bad year.

You point out NE fans are pissed = Duh… and so?

You point out GB fans used to think Favre walked on water (bringing up the past again) but came back in a MIN jersey = Same as Brady, worth it for all the division titles, the Super Bowl, the wins.

You point out that despite six SB wins (that’s the past too, right?) that NE fans are unhappy = Again… so? They would take the 20 years of success rather than football purgatory the Bears have been in because they not only had a franchise QB, that guy is the GOAT of all QBs to most.

You post a link about BB not drafting a QB = Irrelevant so I didn’t comment to it directly. Didn’t help your case at all, BB might be fine having a down year so it’s easier to make moves to get his guy or he might think McDaniels has done a good job with Stidham and wants to test the waters. If he wanted someone he could have made moves to get someone in FA, like cutting Sanu to get $6.5 mil or not franchise tagging a guard that is counting for over $14 mil against the cap. Between the two they’d have $20 mil to make a move and had 10 picks to be able to get who they wanted, which is quite a bit more than what we have. 

 

So, I replied to YOUR comments directly and back up my points, I didn’t seek you out, you initiated a reply on my comment, not the other way around. Then try to say I'm reframing my arguments even though clearly I've debated your own statements. 

In short, bull****.  lol   If you don't want to respond, don't. But make vague accusatory statements against me and I'll call you out on it. 

 

 

Right. I've bumped head with you, G08, MadMike, and basically everyone else here over something. It's not personal, the debating is the best part of a message board. Who the hell would want to be part of an echo-chamber? lol 

He did the same to me all because I said Curtis Samuel isn't any good. I don't understand.

[Heinz D.]

On 4/28/2020 at 9:41 AM, Sugashane said:

Foles also has been deemed replaceable by 4 teams so far (PHI being counted twice of course) and outside of 1 regular season has been nothing worth noting as a regular starting QB. Take out one lucky season and in his 38 regular season starts he has put up 44 TDs. How much better should we expect from him this year over his 1.16 passing TDs per game? Doesn't sound like someone who is anywhere near capable of scoring consistently.  Teams that have been in the hunt CONSISTENTLY have franchise QBs, not one year wonders. 

"Lucky season" is a judgement call. Foles may well not work out for the Bears, but you (and a lot of others) are really devaluing what Pace did in acquiring him. Foles could be a long term solution. If not, he's likely to be a decent stopgap. I know that's not what we want to hear, and none of us would be happy settling on, but the team is talented, in many different areas. To not draft another guy is pretty ridiculous, but that's sort of another conversation...

[SLCbear]

  Mitch has game and will take a step forward this year.  Foles is the PERFECT vet to push MT and get it out him 

  We have an entirely different coaching group for the OL. Execution, not talent, was the problem  

  We still need another very good RB & a solid S

  ..... and then maybe another WR if a good fit becomes available

All and all, we are in pretty good shape

Edited April 30, 2020 by SLCbear

[beardown3231]

2 minutes ago, SLCbear said:

  Mitch has game and will take a significant step forward this year.  Foles is the PERFECT vet to push MT and get it out him 

  We have an entirely different coaching group for the OL. Execution, not talent, was the problem  

  We still need another very good RB & a solid S

  ..... and then maybe another WR if a good fit becomes available

Have the Bears ever made a signing, draft selection, or trade that you hated? Have you ever went into a season not being glass completely full?

I know you're trying to be optimistic and that's fine, but every single one of your posts make it seem like the Bears are going to go 14-2 every single season for the rest of eternity.

[WindyCity]

14 minutes ago, SLCbear said:

  Mitch has game and will take a step forward this year.  Foles is the PERFECT vet to push MT and get it out him 

  We have an entirely different coaching group for the OL. Execution, not talent, was the problem  

  We still need another very good RB & a solid S

  ..... and then maybe another WR if a good fit becomes available

All and all, we are in pretty good shape

Disagree

[Heinz D.]

2 minutes ago, WindyCity said:

Disagree

Well...it's obviously sort of the problem. Some of that stems from the HC, though. And he still there.

[Heinz D.]

And, if I may...

What the HELL is going on with all the blatant animosity going on in this thread (and scattered about a couple of others)?

I like to argue football as much as the next guy, but come on everybody. Just tone it down, for Halas' sake. We're all internet bros. It's all good. Just chill. 

[WindyCity]

1 hour ago, Heinz D. said:

Well...it's obviously sort of the problem. Some of that stems from the HC, though. And he still there.

Coaching, scheme and talent all mix together to create the issue.

But you can’t look at this line and see a talented unit.

[SLCbear]

2 hours ago, beardown3231 said:

Have the Bears ever made a signing, draft selection, or trade that you hated? Have you ever went into a season not being glass completely full?

I know you're trying to be optimistic and that's fine, but every single one of your posts make it seem like the Bears are going to go 14-2 every single season for the rest of eternity.

Ya !! I've only seen 3 1st Round QBs in my lifetime which sux, and we never pull off FA QB signings or get one in a Trade (besides Jay Cutler of course). McMahon is the reason I became a Bears fan, SexyRexy  and MT are the only 1st rounders in my lifetime. We never drafted CBs early either until Fuller #13. Hated the Kevin White #7 and Leonard Floyd #9 picks ... oh and hated Trestman signing, Lovie firing, not keeping Rod Marinelli and letting Hester walk, he should've  retired a bear and jersey # retired. I also hate our striped pants, jerseys are 🔥 but our thick striped pants look stupid with the 3 skinny sleeve stripes. MATCH THE DAM STRIPES OR WEAR SOLID COLOR NO-STRIPED PANTS... 

I like what Pace has done this offseason. There is ALOT to be optimistic about, and we have enough cap room to get a another RB and S. Not many glaring holes. Besides, I have seen enough of MT to know that he can play in the NFL and that he can be a starting QB for a Championship Team. He has to get better at reading/reacting to receivers and coverages, AND get better at tucking the ball and running. It's the NFL and you don't want your starting QB taking hits all game but with Foles we can unleash MTs rushing alot more. I believe strongly that Pace and Nagy unwittingly set MT up to fail. They put this gunslinger pocket passing mentality into his head ..... the guy needs to study and emulate Steve Young and Russell Wilson. I believe MT can be a multiple SB winner. 

Sexy could've been a SB champ too, if not for Peyton and the rain .... Jay too if not for NFC Championship injury. McMahon did get one. add in Sid Luckman and you have now listed EVERY single decent Bears QBs ever ! Pretty bad list compared to any other flagship franchise. 

 

[SLCbear]

2 hours ago, WindyCity said:

Disagree

please explain how every single OL player (even our reserves) had a regression year at the exact time. the odds of 6 diff guys all regressing at once is astronómicos !

[SLCbear]

^

and this exact same group, minus a rapidly declining Long, went 12-4 one season earlier