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2021 early watching list

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22 hours ago, AkronsWitness said:

He did, but was that one year of unbelievable success lightning in a bottle or who he really is as a QB every week on the NFL level. I can see it going either way I just dont view Burrow as some sure fire cant miss elite prospect like many others do. I think he has potential to be really good, I just view Lawrence/Fields as higher ceiling 'safer' bets based on their pedigree coming into college and what each has done so far in the past year or two

Totally see your point but it's not like Burrow was some nobody recruit. He was rated as a 4 star on at least some platforms. As for being 3rd on the depth chart, I believe he had an injury in either spring or fall camp that contributed to Haskins getting the 2nd string job, then haskins played really well in mop up duty for Barrett. Even then, the OSU staff said it was a neck and neck competition leading into a season where haskins played his way into the first round.

Burrow's senior year may have been his one great year of production, but his Junior year LSU was still running their archaic system that made all their previous QBs (some very highly recruited) look like trash. He then went into a more NFL style system and thrived not only within the structure of the offense but when things broke down. He showed so much of the nuance that is needed for success at the NFL level with his pocket movement, touch, ball placement and (as much as I'm not a fan of using this as a trait for a prospect) moxy. 1 year wonders are definitely a risk but his senior year just looked so convincing game in and game out. 

Fields is obviously super talented and I really like him but Burrow was just so much more advanced. Could that be due to age and experience? No question. Fields may have a higher ceiling but i would disagree on the point of him being a "safer" bet just because he was highly recruited. Same goes for Lawrence (who I would rank similarly to Burrow but Burrow is more my style of QB)

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, ScoDucks823 said:

Totally see your point but it's not like Burrow was some nobody recruit. He was rated as a 4 star on at least some platforms. As for being 3rd on the depth chart, I believe he had an injury in either spring or fall camp that contributed to Haskins getting the 2nd string job, then haskins played really well in mop up duty for Barrett. Even then, the OSU staff said it was a neck and neck competition leading into a season where haskins played his way into the first round.

Burrow's senior year may have been his one great year of production, but his Junior year LSU was still running their archaic system that made all their previous QBs (some very highly recruited) look like trash. He then went into a more NFL style system and thrived not only within the structure of the offense but when things broke down. He showed so much of the nuance that is needed for success at the NFL level with his pocket movement, touch, ball placement and (as much as I'm not a fan of using this as a trait for a prospect) moxy. 1 year wonders are definitely a risk but his senior year just looked so convincing game in and game out. 

Fields is obviously super talented and I really like him but Burrow was just so much more advanced. Could that be due to age and experience? No question. Fields may have a higher ceiling but i would disagree on the point of him being a "safer" bet just because he was highly recruited. Same goes for Lawrence (who I would rank similarly to Burrow but Burrow is more my style of QB)

Good points, only one correction--Lawrence and Fields were the #1 and #2 ranked prospects in their class coming out of High School in the entire country. Burrow was #280th and Haskins was #91st

Fields is the highest rated recruit to ever play at Ohio State.....and that says something considering its OSU

Edited by AkronsWitness

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1 hour ago, AkronsWitness said:

Good points, only one correction--Lawrence and Fields were the #1 and #2 ranked prospects in their class coming out of High School in the entire country. Burrow was #280th and Haskins was #91st

Fields is the highest rated recruit to ever play at Ohio State.....and that says something considering its OSU

Absolutely, they were some of the better prospects ever (that was at least the narrative with Lawrence and Fields was always right there with him, or even above I think, on most sites). However, the traits that Burrow excels in (anticipation, feel in the pocket, accuracy, improvisation) aren't usually the types of traits that get guys a lot of hype in the recruiting world. Usually it's the big armed guys, players from big time programs that put up big numbers (Matt Barkley) or crazy athletes. Burrow's best traits are the ones that are usually shared among the top NFL quarterbacks. 

Don't want to say that recruiting ranking isn't correlated to draft stock because it is, moreso that there are elite guys that are missed on for whatever reason. At the end of the day you have to look at the traits (not just physical, especially at QB) that they have going into the draft. Both Lawrence and Fields have the advantage in longevity of production and physical traits, but Burrow has them beat in the traits that I personally find more important for quarterbacks. All 3 are great prospects who could go #1 overall in many drafts

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17 hours ago, AkronsWitness said:

Fields is the highest rated recruit to ever play at Ohio State.....and that says something considering its OSU

Highest rated how? They've had several #1 overall recruiting class commits to play there, even at the QB position (Pryor).

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On 5/29/2020 at 7:12 PM, AkronsWitness said:

Lawrence/Fields are IMO better prospects than both Burrow/Tua.

Lawrence, sure. Fields? No.

On 5/29/2020 at 7:12 PM, AkronsWitness said:

Burrow (while amazing) has sort of a 1 year wonder tag and his deep ball was a minor concern.

In what world does Burrow have deep ball concerns? He throws a remarkably pretty deep ball. 

Quote

LSU doesn't attain efficiency at the expense of explosiveness, though. Burrow's a master of both, capable of beating you underneath or over the top.

His numbers on throws of 20+ yards are off of the charts: 33-of-56 (58.9 percent) for 1,166 yards, 18 touchdowns, and two interceptions. That's the highest completion percentage and most touchdowns on such throws, and it's the fourth-most yards, bettered only by three players with 25+ more attempts than Burrow.

Burrow ranks second nationally in completions of 10+ yards, 20+ yards, and 60+ yards, and his 10.9 yards per attempt rank third.

https://lsusports.net/news/2019/12/7/football-worsham-joe-burrows-historic-heisman-credentials-speak-for-themselves.aspx

Also, there have been plenty of QBs considered “one-year wonders” who have succeeded at the next level. Cam Newton, Ryan Tannehill, Baker Mayfield, and most recently Kyler Murray. Joe even had more CFB passing attempts than someone like Carson Wentz. 

On 6/8/2020 at 12:49 PM, AkronsWitness said:

He wasnt a top recruit, was 3rd on OSUs depth chart, lost a QB competition, transferred and had a bad junior year and then blew up his senior season.

He lost the QB competition mainly because he broke his hand prior to camp and his competition was a future first round pick. Also, he didn’t have a bad junior year, it was fine considering the circumstances of the season.

On 6/8/2020 at 12:49 PM, AkronsWitness said:

Not saying he cant be great, but people are putting a whooole lotta stock into his one season whereas Fields was the #2 overall player in the country who I think has a higher ceiling with his natural traits, even if he is still growing into his game right now.

It doesn’t sound as though you are analyzing Burrow’s ability/tape as much as you are pushing flimsy, overarching narratives. So I’ll ask you this: What about Burrow’s game specifically won’t translate to the next level? Because in the end that’s what it all comes down to. 

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18 hours ago, AkronsWitness said:

Good points, only one correction--Lawrence and Fields were the #1 and #2 ranked prospects in their class coming out of High School in the entire country. Burrow was #280th and Haskins was #91st

I don’t understand why this matters. I don’t care how you were ranked when you were a teenager, give me the best player. Fields and Lawrence were higher recruits because they were/are more physically gifted, but physical gifts do not equate to quarterbacking success.

This is the equivalent of banging the table for Jared Goff over Tom Brady because Jared went first overall and Tom was a 6th round pick. 

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6 minutes ago, SmittyBacall said:

Baker Mayfield

In what world was Baker considered a one year wonder? He was the Big XII OPOY as a sophomore, and as a junior led the nation in yards per play (did the same as a senior).

He was a three time finalist for the Heisman, winning it as a senior.

2015: 4th in voting

2016: 3rd in voting

2017: Won the Heisman

 

*2015 Oklahoma Big 12 SO QB 13 269 395 68.1 3700 9.4 10.4 36 7 173.3
*2016 Oklahoma Big 12 JR QB 13 254 358 70.9 3965 11.1 12.3 40 8 196.4
*2017 Oklahoma Big 12 SR QB 14 285 404 70.5 4627 11.5 12.9 43 6 198.9

 

I'm pretty far from a Baker apologist, as I've been very critical of him, but he definitely wasn't a one year wonder in college.

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12 minutes ago, MWil23 said:

In what world was Baker considered a one year wonder? He was the Big XII OPOY as a sophomore, and as a junior led the nation in yards per play (did the same as a senior).

He was a three time finalist for the Heisman, winning it as a senior.

2015: 4th in voting

2016: 3rd in voting

2017: Won the Heisman

 

*2015 Oklahoma Big 12 SO QB 13 269 395 68.1 3700 9.4 10.4 36 7 173.3
*2016 Oklahoma Big 12 JR QB 13 254 358 70.9 3965 11.1 12.3 40 8 196.4
*2017 Oklahoma Big 12 SR QB 14 285 404 70.5 4627 11.5 12.9 43 6 198.9

 

I'm pretty far from a Baker apologist, as I've been very critical of him, but he definitely wasn't a one year wonder in college.

Why did I think he only started one year? Maybe I’m thinking Haskins, my mistake.

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1 minute ago, SmittyBacall said:

Why did I think he only started one year? Maybe I’m thinking Haskins, my mistake.

Nah buddy it's all good. You're probably thinking of either Trubisky or Haskins. Trubisky was from Ohio (Mr. Ohio) but wasn't offered at OSU because of Braxton/Barrett/Haskins/Burrow.

Trubisky only started 1 year at UNC.

Baker started in 2013 at TTech, but some guy named Mahomes beat him out, so Baker transferred and walked on at OU, sat out 2014, and started 3 years at OU.

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58 minutes ago, MWil23 said:

Highest rated how? They've had several #1 overall recruiting class commits to play there, even at the QB position (Pryor).

Highest rated individual player, he had a higher recruiting score than Pryor did. 

#1 Justin Fields .9998 5*

#2 Terrell Pryor .9997 5*

#3 Teddy Ginn .9992 5*

#4 Beanie Wells .9965 5*

#5 Alex Boone .9934 5*

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1 minute ago, AkronsWitness said:

Highest rated individual player, he had a higher recruiting score than Pryor did. 

#1 Justin Fields .9998 5*

#2 Terrell Pryor .9997 5*

#3 Teddy Ginn .9992 5*

#4 Beanie Wells .9965 5*

#5 Alex Boone .9934 5*

I believe you, but where did you get this from and how far back does it go?

For example, Orlando Pace in 1994 was considered, even then, to be arguably the biggest recruit in the history of OSU.

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Posted (edited)
18 minutes ago, MWil23 said:

I believe you, but where did you get this from and how far back does it go?

For example, Orlando Pace in 1994 was considered, even then, to be arguably the biggest recruit in the history of OSU.

24/7 Sports do recruiting rankings thats where I look. I was way off on the top 5 I was looking at a wrong list but it looks like the earliest it goes back to is 2000.

Soooo updated list is......

1. Justin Fields .9998 (current)

2. Terrell Pryor .9997

3. Ted Ginn .9992

4. Jack Sawyer .9984 (class of 2021)

5. Julian Fleming .9979 (class of 2020)

6. Noah Spence .9975

7. Nick Bosa .9965

8. Beanie Wells .9965

9. Nicholas Petit-Frere .9963 (current)

10. Chase Young .9957

https://247sports.com/college/ohio-state/Sport/Football/AllTimeRecruits/

Edited by AkronsWitness

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On 6/10/2020 at 9:22 AM, AkronsWitness said:

24/7 Sports do recruiting rankings thats where I look. I was way off on the top 5 I was looking at a wrong list but it looks like the earliest it goes back to is 2000.

Soooo updated list is......

1. Justin Fields .9998 (current)

2. Terrell Pryor .9997

3. Ted Ginn .9992

4. Jack Sawyer .9984 (class of 2021)

5. Julian Fleming .9979 (class of 2020)

6. Noah Spence .9975

7. Nick Bosa .9965

8. Beanie Wells .9965

9. Nicholas Petit-Frere .9963 (current)

10. Chase Young .9957

https://247sports.com/college/ohio-state/Sport/Football/AllTimeRecruits/

Ah, man! I forgot about Beanie Wells! He had a couple solid years for the Cards where he was a respectable starter and then a couple years where he was awful. He got hurt a lot, too. 

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