vegas492 Posted February 26 Share Posted February 26 6 hours ago, Brit Pack said: Well if you have that label and agenda against him you pretty much have that against the whole NFL cos while they might have not said it that's what all the owners, GMs and coaches did, they shunned Sam and a team went out and signed Vick. To be fair from a talent point of view they were right. If you are looking for social justice, just ask Colin Kaepernick you are looking in the wrong place with the NFL. Edit: and as you brought up Vick, to this day it still baffles me that America can get so wound up about the killing of a handful of dogs in a barbaric manner, which results in prison time but is cool with the killing of millions upon millions of cows, sheep and pigs. I don't see how the two are reconcilable, both are brutal Speaking for myself and as I see it......we made a deal with dogs. We are their guardians. Their protectors. In return we get unconditional love and obedience. And they become not only our protectors and our guardians, they become family members. We made no such deal with cows, sheep and pigs. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Bad Example Posted February 26 Share Posted February 26 On 2/24/2024 at 1:02 AM, ThatJerkDave said: What if I told you, there was this place, where you could go in, and take books, for free, and then bring them back so they don't clutter your space up? 😁 Sounds disturbingly socialist to me, probably something those weird Eurotrash countries do Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThatJerkDave Posted February 26 Author Share Posted February 26 19 minutes ago, Mr Bad Example said: Sounds disturbingly socialist to me, probably something those weird Eurotrash countries do They probably smoke while they do it too. We really should have just let the Germans take the whole place over... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Bad Example Posted February 26 Share Posted February 26 4 minutes ago, ThatJerkDave said: They probably smoke while they do it too. We really should have just let the Germans take the whole place over... Smoke and eat stinky cheese Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brit Pack Posted February 26 Share Posted February 26 3 hours ago, vegas492 said: Speaking for myself and as I see it......we made a deal with dogs. We are their guardians. Their protectors. In return we get unconditional love and obedience. And they become not only our protectors and our guardians, they become family members. We made no such deal with cows, sheep and pigs. What about cats? They go wherever the milk is, never give unconditional love and offer very little in protection or guardianship to their owners. So does that make cat slaughter alright? I think same might be true for hamsters, guinea pigs, parrots, rabbits etc etc 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThatJerkDave Posted February 26 Author Share Posted February 26 12 minutes ago, Brit Pack said: What about cats? They go wherever the milk is, never give unconditional love and offer very little in protection or guardianship to their owners. So does that make cat slaughter alright? I think same might be true for hamsters, guinea pigs, parrots, rabbits etc etc Domesticated cats were useful for protecting grain stores from rats and mice. Cats are very proficient hunters. And we gave them shelter and protection, while also inadvertently stockpiling a food source, as their food source was attracted to our food source. Dogs and humans evolved together as wolf packs stayed closer to human settlements to scavenge off of kill sites and waste food that the humans didn't/couldn't use. It became a benefit because the wolves had a source of easy food, and the humans had an early warning sign for raids. Your group isn't attacking my village without getting by the wolves that hang around, allowing for me to be more prepared if you are raiding. Then wolves and humans grew less scared, and the wolves that were less scared stayed closer and closer to the humans, until we now have dogs. Interestingly enough, we have also domesticated the chicken, cattle, sheep, and pigs that we consume. And we have even specifically bred them for certain uses. While I believe beef cattle and dairy cattle still interbreed, they are quite different animals. Same as a wild turkey and a farm raised turkey are different. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vegas492 Posted February 26 Share Posted February 26 (edited) @Brit Pack We have no such deal with cats. In fact, they were brough to the United States when our ancestors decided to get away from the tyranny and despicable living conditions found in Britian. (Okay, i'm wrong about the when, but I had to get a dig in on the Brits.) Cats were used to kill mice on the ships to keep the food fresh. That was our deal with them. You can coexist with us, but you have a very clear purpose. And what have we done since then? We've taken an apex predator, a perfect miniature killing machine, and used them in funny videos while dressing them up in ridiculous costumes. We tried to make an apex predator into a domatic lap pet. It is a testament to the cat society that they do not turn on all of mankind and seek retribution for this treatment. They were revered as God's at one point in time. And here we are today. Putting bread on their heads and taking videos. All funnin' aside...we have two. We spoil them rotten. We treat them like dogs (talking to them, spoiling them) and we get dog like affection and responses from them. My family made a deal with these cats. And for our part, we get love, yet none of those freeloaders has ever caught a mouse. (or the red dot) Edited February 26 by vegas492 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThatJerkDave Posted February 26 Author Share Posted February 26 10 hours ago, Brit Pack said: Edit: and as you brought up Vick, to this day it still baffles me that America can get so wound up about the killing of a handful of dogs in a barbaric manner, which results in prison time but is cool with the killing of millions upon millions of cows, sheep and pigs. I don't see how the two are reconcilable, both are brutal Also, there is a big difference between dog fighting and butchering animals for food. The dogs are mistreated and forced to fight, often maiming the victor and the loser. Vick reportedly also didn't take them out back and shoot them in the head with a rifle, he electrocuted the dogs to put them down. Farmers sever the spinal chord very quickly and the animal is in far less pain. Do I want that to happen to me? No. But I can tell you, I would rather get my spinal chord cut and then bleed out than I would be forced to fight in a pit to the death and then drowned or electrocuted when I am no longer of use to the fighting ring. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brit Pack Posted February 26 Share Posted February 26 24 minutes ago, ThatJerkDave said: Also, there is a big difference between dog fighting and butchering animals for food. The dogs are mistreated and forced to fight, often maiming the victor and the loser. Vick reportedly also didn't take them out back and shoot them in the head with a rifle, he electrocuted the dogs to put them down. Farmers sever the spinal chord very quickly and the animal is in far less pain. Do I want that to happen to me? No. But I can tell you, I would rather get my spinal chord cut and then bleed out than I would be forced to fight in a pit to the death and then drowned or electrocuted when I am no longer of use to the fighting ring. I don't know, maybe that is traditional farming but the factory farming of modern society what they do is barbaric in terms of pain caused to those animals. Cows are force fed hormone growth feed where their weight can't be supported by their legs, their lives are a misery from birth to death. If ever you see it on youtube after watching something like that I still can't reconcile how we can have sympathy for one type of animal and not another. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kampfgeist Posted February 26 Share Posted February 26 10 hours ago, Brit Pack said: Edit: and as you brought up Vick, to this day it still baffles me that America can get so wound up about the killing of a handful of dogs in a barbaric manner, which results in prison time but is cool with the killing of millions upon millions of cows, sheep and pigs. I don't see how the two are reconcilable, both are brutal Curious - you view the abhorrence of dog-fighting and meat eating as uniquely American traits? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brit Pack Posted February 26 Share Posted February 26 Just now, Kampfgeist said: Curious - you view the abhorrence of dog-fighting and meat eating as uniquely American traits? That was just me taking the piss. It is not American but I found it strange because of the Vick thing and the outcry of poor animals but not to have the same connection with other poor animals that are killed for consumption Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThatJerkDave Posted February 26 Author Share Posted February 26 20 minutes ago, Brit Pack said: That was just me taking the piss. It is not American but I found it strange because of the Vick thing and the outcry of poor animals but not to have the same connection with other poor animals that are killed for consumption LIS, it is the manner of how they are killed. You also have to sort out your source on the inhumane treatment of animals, there are a bajillion (I actually counted them all) regulations regarding the treatment of livestock. Not all of these sources are as righteous as they claim to be. Personally, I don't really care what the animal is, I am sure that teriyaki dog is pretty good, put teriyaki sauce on any thing and it is pretty good. Life feeds off life. Until I can photosynthesize or extract minerals from rocks, I will have to eat some other form of life. When I die, the underground crawlies will eat me. When I poop, the bacteria on my neighbor's welcome mat eats that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brit Pack Posted February 26 Share Posted February 26 11 minutes ago, ThatJerkDave said: LIS, it is the manner of how they are killed. It's also how they live not just how they die. While I can accept the narrative of we grow with the land and we die with the land. That's all cool when you hunt your meat and everything is in balance and 'natural.' The way cows and any factory animal are bred to be consumed is in no way natural or humane, and I can't see any other way to cut that. These animals lead short lives, not in any way how they were intended to live. Cows are meant to live for around 18 years, out on the land, these poor beasts live four years, they don't graze, they are not fed grass but corn, they are artificially impregnated to give milk over and over again, and their calves are taken away from them, their udders and whole bodies are out of proportion to what they should be. It is just sick. Like I say if you think the treatment of dogs for dog fighting is bad check out factory farms, it's hard not to have that same emotion of sorrow and unnecessary cruelty. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MacReady Posted February 26 Share Posted February 26 Sorry, farms feed people. They produce food. Dog fighting is for gambling. Also a breeding ground for gang violence, gun crimes, racketeering and drug usage. Drawing a comparison of any kind is about as dumb as wanting to keep Barry. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThatJerkDave Posted February 26 Author Share Posted February 26 9 minutes ago, MacReady said: Sorry, farms feed people. They produce food. Dog fighting is for gambling. Also a breeding ground for gang violence, gun crimes, racketeering and drug usage. Drawing a comparison of any kind is about as dumb as wanting to keep Barry. Joe Barry allegedly* owns a factory farm. *Allegations made by me, but allegations nonetheless Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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