Most intriguing position or roster battles

[beardown3231]

1 hour ago, Heinz D. said:

Or...(crosses fingers)...instead of Cohen. 

If he is what he showed last year on offense, he is as useless as boobs on a bull.

 

46 minutes ago, dll2000 said:

I don't get the Cohen hate.

Yes he was bad last year.  

He is a role player and honestly aside from last year he has been most feared Bears offensive player 2 of last 3 years.  From a defensive perspective.  He has been one of their only chunk yardage players and a dynamic punt returner.  

They tried him as a slot last year and it didn't work.  I too thought it would.   But then he couldn't play RB last year either.   So maybe he could play slot a bit better, but he just had an all around off year last year and wouldn't have been good at anything.

 

 

 

That's the problem. Nagy thinks he's god's gift to an offense. I think he has a role... as a ROLE player... like you said. He can be a dynamic PR. But this 40 million snaps a game thing is not smart, in the least

Edited July 7, 2020 by beardown3231

[Heinz D.]

3 hours ago, dll2000 said:

I don't get the Cohen hate.

Yes he was bad last year.  

He's limited. He's not the offensive dynamo you're making him out to be. It may be Nagy hate instead of Cohen hate, but the problem exists, either way. 

2 hours ago, beardown3231 said:

That's the problem. Nagy thinks he's god's gift to an offense. I think he has a role... as a ROLE player... like you said. He can be a dynamic PR. But this 40 million snaps a game thing is not smart, in the least

That's pretty much it. Nagy used him, at times, like a starting RB last year. He isn't even close. 

[topwop1]

On 6/30/2020 at 4:55 PM, beardown3231 said:

An under the radar battle is the RB spot after Cohen.

I believe the RB position is a very weak point on this team.  I like Monty but we need more reliable guys behind him.  Cohen is a scatback and a gadget player, nothing more.  Ryan Nall is ...not very good.

I would be interested in Bears signing a guy like Lamar Miller or even Shady McCoy as depth.

[beardown3231]

1 minute ago, topwop1 said:

I believe the RB position is a very weak point on this team.  I like Monty but we need more reliable guys behind him.  Cohen is a scatback and a gadget player, nothing more.  Ryan Nall is ...not very good.

I would be interested in Bears signing a guy like Lamar Miller or even Shady McCoy as depth.

I agree. Miller makes a ton of sense. You have to think this unofficial freeze around the league is still virus-related.

[topwop1]

On 7/5/2020 at 8:53 AM, MonserinNC said:

Why is there so much love for Tolliver? Haha....he had a good college career but went undrafted and by the numbers hasn't been good. Roberson was the best CB in the CFL but I don't know if half the league was trying to get him haha

Telling you guys, Burns is a starter who just didn't get his option picked up

Agreed I don't think he is anything to get excited about.  He is ok for depth but not a guy I want starting full time unless he shows me a lot more play making ability.  That is exactly why they drafted Johnson this past draft so Tolliver's chances of holding down that spot are slim IMO.

Also, I don't expect a whole lot out of Roberson.  In fact I think he will likely be the odd man out when all is said and done.  CFL guys rarely do stick unless they are very good.

I think Burns will stick because of his athletic traits and he is still fairly young.

Edited July 8, 2020 by topwop1

[BEAR FACE DOWN ARROW]

17 hours ago, Heinz D. said:

He's limited. He's not the offensive dynamo you're making him out to be. It may be Nagy hate instead of Cohen hate, but the problem exists, either way. 

That's pretty much it. Nagy used him, at times, like a starting RB last year. He isn't even close. 

Last year when it became apparent the Bears had no TE production to make linebackers play cautious around the middle of the field they should have cut Cohen's snaps and targets, he was never going to be effective with defenses knowing if it wasn't a deep shot and he was in back it was going to him for a short/no gain play. 

Feel like I"m beating the dead horse here, but the offense was so broadly failing that it makes it tough to evaluate any of the positions that might have been decent in different circumstances. 

[MonserinNC]

5 hours ago, RunningVaccs said:

Last year when it became apparent the Bears had no TE production to make linebackers play cautious around the middle of the field they should have cut Cohen's snaps and targets, he was never going to be effective with defenses knowing if it wasn't a deep shot and he was in back it was going to him for a short/no gain play. 

Feel like I"m beating the dead horse here, but the offense was so broadly failing that it makes it tough to evaluate any of the positions that might have been decent in different circumstances. 

The Bears had a weirdly cocky offseason last year on offense, not really adding anything. They pretty much set themselves up for a bad year. I didnt understand just fully going with a rookie RB behind a bad offensive line. And not doing anything at TE when both those guys were CLEAR busts. 

The Bears basically went into last offseason expecting Trubisky to full on carry the team for some reason. And essentially with no back up using Chase Daniel haha.....it was insane

[JAF-N72EX]

On 7/7/2020 at 6:57 PM, beardown3231 said:

If he is what he showed last year on offense, he is as useless as boobs on a bull.

Over the last 2 years, Cohen has 2,593 all-purpose yards which is 18th most in the league and by far the most on the team.  He also has over 1,838 yards from scrimmage which is 2nd on the team by less than 100 yards to Robinson who has 1912. 

That's far from useless. 

On 7/7/2020 at 9:40 PM, Heinz D. said:

He's limited. He's not the offensive dynamo you're making him out to be. It may be Nagy hate instead of Cohen hate, but the problem exists, either way. 

That's pretty much it. Nagy used him, at times, like a starting RB last year. He isn't even close. 

Nagy used him last year as more of a TE role to try and replace Burton because his skill set is similar and it failed.  In Nagys defense here, he didn't have many other options.  Braunecker was his best choice but he's still raw. 

In 2018, Nagy did a better job of putting Cohen in more favorable match-ups to take advantage of his skill set in the open space. He can beat linebackers but Cohen is not fit to fight off physical safeties and corners who bump off the line like TE's do.  Especially at only 5'8, a buck nothing. 

[JAF-N72EX]

On 7/5/2020 at 8:53 AM, MonserinNC said:

Why is there so much love for Tolliver? Haha....he had a good college career but went undrafted and by the numbers hasn't been good. Roberson was the best CB in the CFL but I don't know if half the league was trying to get him haha

Telling you guys, Burns is a starter who just didn't get his option picked up

Half of my family are Steelers fans and because of this I have watched every single Steelers game since the late 90's, with the exception of the 2012 season when my pops passed, and I can't even begin to tell you how awful Burns is.  

If this season was normal, I guaranteed he would likely not make the team. 

Edited July 9, 2020 by JustAnotherFan

[BEAR FACE DOWN ARROW]

9 hours ago, MonserinNC said:

The Bears had a weirdly cocky offseason last year on offense, not really adding anything. They pretty much set themselves up for a bad year. I didnt understand just fully going with a rookie RB behind a bad offensive line. And not doing anything at TE when both those guys were CLEAR busts. 

The Bears basically went into last offseason expecting Trubisky to full on carry the team for some reason. And essentially with no back up using Chase Daniel haha.....it was insane

Uhh, have you met the 2020 offseason yet?  German Ifedi, the ghost of Jimmy Graham, and a rookie TE are the skill upgrades, and maybe Nick Foles again?

If we're writing Pace's tombstone next January, the big letters are going to be about missing on the QB, and the small type is going to be all about OL

[BEAR FACE DOWN ARROW]

4 hours ago, JustAnotherFan said:

Half of my family are Steelers fans and because of this I have watched every single Steelers game since the late 90's, with the exception of the 2012 season when my pops passed, and I can't even begin to tell you how awful Burns is.  

If this season was normal, I guaranteed he would likely not make the team. 

YEah, but is he, like the kind of of bad where we can talk ourselves into him being good, or just the regular bad? (That we can talk ourselves into maybe being good)

[beardown3231]

6 hours ago, JustAnotherFan said:

Over the last 2 years, Cohen has 2,593 all-purpose yards which is 18th most in the league and by far the most on the team.  He also has over 1,838 yards from scrimmage which is 2nd on the team by less than 100 yards to Robinson who has 1912. 

That's far from useless. 

Nagy used him last year as more of a TE role to try and replace Burton because his skill set is similar and it failed.  In Nagys defense here, he didn't have many other options.  Braunecker was his best choice but he's still raw. 

In 2018, Nagy did a better job of putting Cohen in more favorable match-ups to take advantage of his skill set in the open space. He can beat linebackers but Cohen is not fit to fight off physical safeties and corners who bump off the line like TE's do.  Especially at only 5'8, a buck nothing. 

No question about it. Cohen was great in 2017 and 2018. I'm saying if he is now what he showed last year, he is useless. My concern is his quickness and agility are deteriorating but hopefully he was just having a rough year & Nagy's playcalling weren't helping the cause

Edited July 9, 2020 by beardown3231

[soulman]

Looking out across the playing field of CB/NB prospects I'd say Pace has done a pretty good job of acquiring some talent all of whom can potentially compete for a roster spot at RCB and NB as well as being top shelf ST guys. 

Let's also keep in mind that due to restructuring Kyle Fullers cap hit increases to $20 mil in 2021 so any decline in his play may see him becoming a potential cap cut after this season.  So it looks to me like Pace also has an eye on future needs by stocking up on CB talent and seeing who rises to the challenge.

Edited July 9, 2020 by soulman

[soulman]

On 7/7/2020 at 4:11 PM, dll2000 said:

I don't get the Cohen hate.

Yes he was bad last year.  

He is a role player and honestly aside from last year he has been most feared Bears offensive player 2 of last 3 years.  From a defensive perspective.  He has been one of their only chunk yardage players and a dynamic punt returner.  

They tried him as a slot last year and it didn't work.  I too thought it would.   But then he couldn't play RB last year either.   So maybe he could play slot a bit better, but he just had an all around off year last year and wouldn't have been good at anything.

 

 

 

Agreed.  I'm not as down on Cohen as a few others I either but if Nagy can't find a way to use him more productively in the offense his chances of being extended or re-signed may be pretty slim.  He's getting $2.1 mil this year so IMHO  he needs to more than just be an a dangerous PR but a somewhat ineffective offensive role player to earn another contract here.

[dll2000]

Obviously most intriguing battle is QB.   But that has been discussed a lot already.

My next one after CB is how they are going to roster and utilize the TE position.

First lets talk about Y and U.  I don't have a Nagy playbook, but from what I understand the U is a TE they use to move to slot, line up off line of scrimmage, in other words - he is a large WR.  However he is also to occasionally play a FB role or wham blocker, which is why they want larger than WR bodies.   The Y they want to be primarily an inline player, running shorter routes and being essentially a 6th OL.    

The U can still line up inline and the Y can still be split out.   But that is not their primary roles in scheme.  Also Y and U are not tattooed on a player.   Any TE can play Y or U.  Just some are more suited for one over other.   

I think of the U as an old school Wing Back - with difference of they aren't going to run him on end arounds.

The assumption is that Graham, being big FA acquisition, is going to play both Y and U - mostly U because that is his strength.  And Kmet, being the 2nd round pick, is going to play mostly Y.  

We also have Demetrius Harris, Jesper Horsted, Ben Holtz and yes we still have Adam Shaheen and Ben Braunecker.    I think most observers figure they are done with Shaheen and Braunecker as they have been given many opportunities and not come through.    But we'll see.   Keeping Shaheen around still is puzzling.  Perhaps he will get another chance.

Holtz and Horsted kind of took over the roles last year through attrition and while they put up bad numbers, they still showed better play than anyone else.  Which was kind of crazy because Holtz couldn't make worst roster in league and Horsted was an UDFA.

I think Holtz is a classic journeyman grinder and I would definitely keep him on roster.   I am going to be controversial here, but I think Horsted has as much ceiling as our second round pick, but as a U TE rather than as a Y.   I don't know that Bears agree.  I think they do not.

I think at his age and recent history that you cannot plan to play Graham every snap.   He will break down.  I would personally give the reserve U snaps to Horsted.  

I also think Kmet is not ready to be a full time Y.   His blocking tech is just not good enough.  Although it is equal or better to what Bears have had in last two years, which is still crap.     However, I think they are going to ride him and just suffer through it and hope he grows fast.

I honestly don't know much about Harris.  By reputation he is a good blocker - so perhaps he can take some Y snaps.  If his reputation is true, I would play him until Kmet shows me he can block at NFL level.   I don't think Bears will do that.

I believe TEs are going to be Graham, Kmet, Harris, Horsted and Holtz.   

My largest hope is they do not ignore the development of Horsted who I think is an underrated raw talent.  But I think that they will.