Covid-19 and it’s impact on the 2020 season

[Deadpulse]

18 hours ago, Ray Reed said:

Something tells me you’d rather be right about Covid not letting the NFL season play out than you being wrong about this whole thing and somehow the NFL being able to start and finish somewhat normally. 

I get being a realist. But at what point are you just the debbie downer that has to respond to every post on here with “HA, thinking we’re gonna have an NFL season?....pfffff” because you’ve planted your flag on the “this is impossible turf” and have taken on the identity of “that” guy?

There’s optimists, realists, and pessimists. You seem to have jumped the shark over all three of those the past few weeks right into a “this will never happen and i’ll let you know about it every time I post and i’m right and you all will see, i can’t believe you all don’t spend every post talking about the impossibly of this either”-ist. It’s a tough scene man.

 

riiiiiight, talking about covid in a thread about covid, how dare I be that guy! I am so so sorry to have debbie downed you, it has ruined my day, I promise you.

 

[August4th]

 

[INbengalfan]

On 8/14/2020 at 3:17 PM, Shanedorf said:

5 on field Refs and 2 replay officials opted out for 2020

That's 7 officials that need to be replaced and they won't have preseason, OTAs etc to get up to speed like they would in a normal year
The Refs are also mixing up their crews, arranging them by geography to limit the travel - that means you'll have guys that aren't used to working together. NFL Reffing is already under the microscope, I'm guessing we're going to see even more gaffes in 2020.
(And some epic griping from the aggrieved fan bases)

Wouldn't be a problem in bubbles

[August4th]

 

[kingseanjohn]

2 hours ago, August4th said:

 

As a Chiefs fan and someone who hasn't missed a home game in years, this is a terrible idea. 22% of capacity sounds good. But when you realize capacity is 76,000+, then that means you're going to potentially have around 17,000 people there. The lack of social distancing during tailgating, entry/exit into the stadium, concessions, restrooms, team store, etc will be a travesty. I for one won't be attending any games this year. I think the NFL needs to step in and say no fans this year. If anything, fans getting sick at games could lead to the season ending earlier than planned.

[Deadpulse]

1 hour ago, kingseanjohn said:

I think the NFL needs to step in and say no fans this year. If anything, fans getting sick at games could lead to the season ending earlier than planned.

They wont because ultimately the owners have all the power and they are gonna want fans spending money. 

[Nightmare]

7 hours ago, kingseanjohn said:

As a Chiefs fan and someone who hasn't missed a home game in years, this is a terrible idea. 22% of capacity sounds good. But when you realize capacity is 76,000+, then that means you're going to potentially have around 17,000 people there. The lack of social distancing during tailgating, entry/exit into the stadium, concessions, restrooms, team store, etc will be a travesty. I for one won't be attending any games this year. I think the NFL needs to step in and say no fans this year. If anything, fans getting sick at games could lead to the season ending earlier than planned.

Good post. The NFL really should take this out of the individual teams’ hands. The Chiefs may be able to implement some safer-than-normal processes, but ultimately there will be more of a risk now in KC than there will be at the many other venues and this shouldn’t be the case.

[JAF-N72EX]

7 hours ago, kingseanjohn said:

As a Chiefs fan and someone who hasn't missed a home game in years, this is a terrible idea. 22% of capacity sounds good. But when you realize capacity is 76,000+, then that means you're going to potentially have around 17,000 people there. The lack of social distancing during tailgating, entry/exit into the stadium, concessions, restrooms, team store, etc will be a travesty. I for one won't be attending any games this year. I think the NFL needs to step in and say no fans this year. If anything, fans getting sick at games could lead to the season ending earlier than planned.

I agree.

The Bears have the smallest stadium in the league (62,000+) and they have already said they won't have ANY fans until further notice.  I'm usually very critical of the McCaskey's and Ted Philips but I gotta hand it them with how they have handled this pandemic. 

 

 

[sammymvpknight]

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.al.com/alabamafootball/2020/08/how-a-cardiologist-may-have-saved-the-college-football-season.html%3foutputType=amp
 

Mayo Clinic doc saved the college football season and maybe even the 2021 NFL draft

[Shanedorf]

18 minutes ago, sammymvpknight said:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.al.com/alabamafootball/2020/08/how-a-cardiologist-may-have-saved-the-college-football-season.html%3foutputType=amp
 

Mayo Clinic doc saved the college football season and maybe even the 2021 NFL draft

Nope.
Even the breathless headline writers from the renowned medical journal Alabama.com used the phrase "may have", which you transformed into saying he did save it. Those are two very different things

All Ackerman said was that treating this serious concern as a new boogeyman isn't warranted. And the "play football" crew took it an ran with it that there is no actual problem at all. That's just hearing what you wanna hear

"There's just too many unknowns to say we have new damaging, alarming evidence that COVID-19 myocarditis is the big, bad spooky thing in town now, and we need to do something about it," Ackerman said

Cardiac QT prolongation
This issue is so serious that the FDA requires every new drug candidate to conduct a separate clinical assessment on the cardiac risk posed by the medication as part of the overall development. These studies cost in the neighborhood of $1.5  -  2.5 million each - so its not a trivial expense and many promising meds have been scuttled over cardiac QT prolongation risks

Myocarditis 

"The Mayo Clinic cardiologist didn’t sugarcoat that myocarditis can be a serious issue. The inflammation of the heart, caused by viral infections, can ultimately be deadly in rare cases. Former Boston Celtics star Reggie Lewis, who collapsed during basketball practice, died at the age of 27 from myocarditis. Brian Hainline, the NCAA’s chief medical officer, said last week he was aware of 12 athletes suffering from myocarditis after COVID-19. "

Dr. Ackerman said that we already know viral infections can lead to myocarditis and the SARS CoV 2 virus is showing similar impacts. He also stated that we've known that COVID impacts the heart for 5 months now.

And his prescription for handling these issues ?
"Ackerman pushed for the Big 12 to consider additional heart-related protocols to mitigate any possible risks, with the conference adopting plans to test athletes who had the coronavirus with an EKG, cardiac MRI, echocardiogram and troponin blood test."
He stressed that any player who contracts COVID-19 needs to have a “squeaky clean cardiac evaluation” before getting the go-ahead to return to play.

So its not a new concern and we don't need to do anything about it.. but we do need a thorough cardiac evaluation and squeaky clean results to play.
Ackerman is talking in circles. These are significant costs that the schools will have to bear or open themselves up to liability.

No need for alarm ? I guess that depends on who's heart is impacted.
Its sorta like Congress sending young men off to war, it ain't their *** on the line.

[sammymvpknight]

1 minute ago, Shanedorf said:

Nope.
Even the breathless headline writers from the renowned medical journal Alabama.com used the phrase "may have", which you transformed into saying he did save it. Those are two very different things

All Ackerman said was that treating this serious concern as a new boogeyman isn't warranted. And the "play football" crew took it an ran with it that there is no actual problem at all. That's just hearing what you wanna hear

"There's just too many unknowns to say we have new damaging, alarming evidence that COVID-19 myocarditis is the big, bad spooky thing in town now, and we need to do something about it," Ackerman said

Cardiac QT prolongation
This issue is so serious that the FDA requires every new drug candidate to conduct a separate clinical assessment on the cardiac risk posed by the medication as part of the overall development. These studies cost in the neighborhood of $1.5  -  2.5 million each - so its not a trivial expense and many promising meds have been scuttled over cardiac QT prolongation risks

Myocarditis 

"The Mayo Clinic cardiologist didn’t sugarcoat that myocarditis can be a serious issue. The inflammation of the heart, caused by viral infections, can ultimately be deadly in rare cases. Former Boston Celtics star Reggie Lewis, who collapsed during basketball practice, died at the age of 27 from myocarditis. Brian Hainline, the NCAA’s chief medical officer, said last week he was aware of 12 athletes suffering from myocarditis after COVID-19. "

Dr. Ackerman said that we already know viral infections can lead to myocarditis and the SARS CoV 2 virus is showing similar impacts. He also stated that we've known that COVID impacts the heart for 5 months now.

And his prescription for handling these issues ?
"Ackerman pushed for the Big 12 to consider additional heart-related protocols to mitigate any possible risks, with the conference adopting plans to test athletes who had the coronavirus with an EKG, cardiac MRI, echocardiogram and troponin blood test."
He stressed that any player who contracts COVID-19 needs to have a “squeaky clean cardiac evaluation” before getting the go-ahead to return to play.

So its not a new concern and we don't need to do anything about it.. but we do need a thorough cardiac evaluation and squeaky clean results to play.
Ackerman is talking in circles. These are significant costs that the schools will have to bear or open themselves up to liability.

No need for alarm ? I guess that depends on who's heart is impacted.
Its sorta like Congress sending young men off to war, it ain't their *** on the line.

Hi I’m a physician 

[Shanedorf]

Just now, sammymvpknight said:

Hi I’m a physician 

congrats and thanks for your contribution to society

[Shanedorf]

^ After further consideration, I'm gonna walk back my criticisms above
I was out of line in taking shots at Dr. Ackerman - the reality is that he offered his learned opinion as a well- respected physician with a specialty in cardiology.

My real issue was with how the author framed it and in some respects, twisted his words to support the angle the writer chose for the article.
From that POV, I stand by my critiques above - but I was out of line in impugning Dr. Ackerman in my post above.

Edited August 20, 2020 by Shanedorf

[INbengalfan]

On 8/18/2020 at 3:54 AM, Nightmare said:

Good post. The NFL really should take this out of the individual teams’ hands. The Chiefs may be able to implement some safer-than-normal processes, but ultimately there will be more of a risk now in KC than there will be at the many other venues and this shouldn’t be the case.

I'm not so sure it really is in team's hands.  I would think it has to do with state guidelines.  The jets and Giants were the first to announce no fans.  That probably came from the governor of New Jersey.  Then the Bills did too.  I know that when I asked about seating at Paul brown Stadium before opting out, they said they were waiting to hear from Ohio's governor.  I think all the California teams will all ban fans simultaneously, as will other states with multiple teams.

[sammymvpknight]

19 hours ago, Shanedorf said:

^ After further consideration, I'm gonna walk back my criticisms above
I was out of line in taking shots at Dr. Ackerman - the reality is that he offered his learned opinion as a well- respected physician with a specialty in cardiology.

My real issue was with how the author framed it and in some respects, twisted his words to support the angle the writer chose for the article.
From that POV, I stand by my critiques above - but I was out of line in impugning Dr. Ackerman in my post above.

I think that criticism of the article is fair. It is safe to assume that AL.com is going to hold a stake in Dr. Ackerman's decision. But I can say this much about Dr. Ackerman...I don't know the guy...but he's a Pediatric Cardiologist who is a PhD and a world expert at sudden cardiac death and cardiomyopathy. There may be only a handful of people in the ENTIRE world even capable of critiquing Dr. Ackerman on this topic. 

Medical studies are not for laypeople. It's sort of like when Hydroxychloroquine had a small non-blinded study that showed treatment effectiveness. It takes people capable of interpreting studies to know that there were significant limitations to the study, which put the scientific validity of the results into questions. Well...the same can be said about the COVID myocarditis study. And it was a significant study...that study that was really the nail in the coffin to the NCAA season...without proper context. So here's the context:

 

https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamacardiology/fullarticle/2768916

The article linked above was really the article that prompted all of this concern. When analyzing a scientific article you really have to go section by section.

Authors/Intro: First, the validity of the study. The authors are qualified to push forth the research as they were specialists at a major institution. It was published in JAMA Cardiology, which is a MAJOR REPUTABLE journal. It's right up there with New England Journal of Medicine. So when a COVID article gets published in JAMA...it's to be taken seriously. 

Design/Setting/Participants: This is where the problems arise. First, the article was conducted on "recent recovery from severe acute respiratory syndrome coronavirus 2 infection". Essentially, it took those who were severely afflicted by COVID and recovered. Is that the average 18-21 year old that gets COVID? Absolutely not. The average age of the patient's tested was 49 years old. Again...very different from a 18-21 year old. You can't make broad sweeping generations based on a study performed on older, sick people with considerable comorbidities and apply it to young healthy people.

 

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7199677/

This article is more of an overview of the topic and an accumulation of articles that have been conducted on the topic to date. Some interesting points include that about 7% of COVID deaths are due to myocarditis, but again, you have to look at who is actually dying of COVID to see the relevance. There is definitely a very high correlation between age and comorbidities, which the article points out (relationship between poor myocarditis outcomes and prior existing heart conditions). College athletes are young and it's incredibly rare for comorbidities. Most are significantly more healthy than the average person of their age, which is likely to be protective. 

 

Dr. Ackerman felt comfortable saying that myocarditis shouldn't be a big factor in decision making because 1) myocarditis should not be common in the college athlete cohort, and 2) those who did get COVID or are exposed will have unprecedented screening (cardiac MRIs, EKG, troponins, etc) to ensure that the athlete doesn't have myocarditis. Something to realize is that the community is NOT a COVID free zone. Students were getting COVID before college football, and they will probably be getting COVID after the season. The season could actually be protective, as they will have routine screenings and policies in place for exposure. Every day I go to work I run the risk of being exposed by COVID. How many times have I been screened for COVID? Zilch. And if I get COVID, what is the likelihood that I will be promptly screened with a cardiac MRI, EKG, and tropinins? Zilch.