Joe_is_the_best Posted August 11, 2020 Share Posted August 11, 2020 Weird list. Why is Hopkins at #5? Why didn't Adams & Godwin make the list? Why do I even care what Chris Simms thinks? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tyler735 Posted August 11, 2020 Share Posted August 11, 2020 46 minutes ago, GSUeagles14 said: literally ranks 160th for wrs only (!) for adot. hes incredibly good at catching short paases though. Thankfully very few people care about a random stat such as adot when grading a WR. Hence why Michael Thomas was just named NFL Offensive Player of the Year last season. Doesn't appear adot really mattered much hahaha Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GSUeagles14 Posted August 11, 2020 Share Posted August 11, 2020 2 hours ago, tyler735 said: Thankfully very few people care about a random stat such as adot when grading a WR. Hence why Michael Thomas was just named NFL Offensive Player of the Year last season. Doesn't appear adot really mattered much hahaha i mean, i would say most people posting here dig past surface stats. As more advanced stats become available, it would make sense to factor them in. Things improve, which is a good thing obviously. DVOA for example would be another stat that very few people care about, but its a very telling stat. Not perfect by any stretch but better than we had. And im hoping you could answer this honestly, why do you think a stat that essentially tells us what kinds of routes a wr is running is random? Its not a perfect stat but its better than what we've had. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tyler735 Posted August 11, 2020 Share Posted August 11, 2020 5 minutes ago, GSUeagles14 said: i mean, i would say most people posting here dig past surface stats. As more advanced stats become available, it would make sense to factor them in. Things improve, which is a good thing obviously. DVOA for example would be another stat that very few people care about, but its a very telling stat. Not perfect by any stretch but better than we had. And im hoping you could answer this honestly, why do you think a stat that essentially tells us what kinds of routes a wr is running is random? Its not a perfect stat but its better than what we've had. It's not really an important stat. Michael Thomas is near the top if not top in most important stats. One obscure stat such as adot doesn't change that. In other words, Michael Thomas's overall production trumps adot. If adot mattered that much, defenses could simply adjust how they play Thomas and neutralize him in the short/intermediate game, but they can't, because he has been near unstoppable. His depth of target is irrelevant if teams can't stop him even if they know what's coming. As mentioned the accolades speak for themself with Michael Thomas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GSUeagles14 Posted August 11, 2020 Share Posted August 11, 2020 25 minutes ago, tyler735 said: It's not really an important stat. Michael Thomas is near the top if not top in most important stats. One obscure stat such as adot doesn't change that. In other words, Michael Thomas's overall production trumps adot. If adot mattered that much, defenses could simply adjust how they play Thomas and neutralize him in the short/intermediate game, but they can't, because he has been near unstoppable. His depth of target is irrelevant if teams can't stop him even if they know what's coming. As mentioned the accolades speak for themself with Michael Thomas. i dont care if you think its an important stat, your entire first paragraph is irrelevant and quite frankly most of your second. GTood to know we cant get unbiased opinion from you though. If that was even ever in question. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tyler735 Posted August 12, 2020 Share Posted August 12, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, GSUeagles14 said: i dont care if you think its an important stat, your entire first paragraph is irrelevant and quite frankly most of your second. GTood to know we cant get unbiased opinion from you though. If that was even ever in question. As always you cling to one obscure stat (such as adot) and go all in on it without much of any other substance to your arguments. If it was so easy to dominate the way Michael Thomas does in the short/underneath game, every team would be trying to replicate it in their offenses. Problem being there is only 1 Michael Thomas in the NFL that has the skillset to dominate in those areas to the extent he does. Both of my paragraphs were perfectly fine as that is what the vast majority see when they look at Michael Thomas. It seems your Falcons homer shades might have an agenda here. Just for reference, here is how many of the bigger football sites have recently ranked Micheal Thomas amongst his peers at WR: Sporting News: Michael Thomas ranked #1 WR https://www.sportingnews.com/us/amp/nfl/news/nfl-wide-receiver-rankings-2020-top-25/1e274rer4161q17jmffbzmu6oj NFL.com: Michael Thomas ranked #1 WR https://www.nfl.com/_amp/ranking-nfl-s-top-wide-receivers-in-2020-is-keenan-allen-right CBS Sports: Michael Thomas ranked #1 WR https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/ranking-top-10-wrs-for-2020-nfl-season-michael-thomas-tops-list-odell-beckham-jr-set-for-bounce-back/amp/ Pro Football Network: Michael Thomas ranked #1 WR https://www.profootballnetwork.com/the-top-25-wide-receivers-in-the-nfl/2/ Athlon Sports: Michael Thomas ranked #1 WR https://www.google.com/amp/s/athlonsports.com/nfl/nfl-wide-receiver-rankings%3famp PFF: Michael Thomas highest graded WR in the NFL. https://www.pff.com/news/nfl-ranking-nfl-most-efficient-wide-receivers-2019 NFL top 100 list: Michael Thomas top ranked WR https://www.nfl.com/network/shows/nfl-top-100 Footballs Future best WR poll: Michael Thomas ranked as top WR In other words, your opinion is in the minority and you will have to do better than adot, if that's all you have then this conversation is over. Edited August 12, 2020 by tyler735 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GSUeagles14 Posted August 12, 2020 Share Posted August 12, 2020 1 hour ago, tyler735 said: As always you cling to one obscure stat (such as adot) and go all in on it without much of any other substance to your arguments. If it was so easy to dominate the way Michael Thomas does in the short/underneath game, every team would be trying to replicate it in their offenses. Problem being there is only 1 Michael Thomas in the NFL that has the skillset to dominate in those areas to the extent he does. Both of my paragraphs were perfectly fine as that is what the vast majority see when they look at Michael Thomas. It seems your Falcons homer shades might have an agenda here. Just for reference, here is how many of the bigger football sites have recently ranked Micheal Thomas amongst his peers at WR: Sporting News: Michael Thomas ranked #1 WR https://www.sportingnews.com/us/amp/nfl/news/nfl-wide-receiver-rankings-2020-top-25/1e274rer4161q17jmffbzmu6oj NFL.com: Michael Thomas ranked #1 WR https://www.nfl.com/_amp/ranking-nfl-s-top-wide-receivers-in-2020-is-keenan-allen-right CBS Sports: Michael Thomas ranked #1 WR https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/ranking-top-10-wrs-for-2020-nfl-season-michael-thomas-tops-list-odell-beckham-jr-set-for-bounce-back/amp/ Pro Football Network: Michael Thomas ranked #1 WR https://www.profootballnetwork.com/the-top-25-wide-receivers-in-the-nfl/2/ Athlon Sports: Michael Thomas ranked #1 WR https://www.google.com/amp/s/athlonsports.com/nfl/nfl-wide-receiver-rankings%3famp PFF: Michael Thomas highest graded WR in the NFL. https://www.pff.com/news/nfl-ranking-nfl-most-efficient-wide-receivers-2019 NFL top 100 list: Michael Thomas top ranked WR https://www.nfl.com/network/shows/nfl-top-100 Footballs Future best WR poll: Michael Thomas ranked as top WR In other words, your opinion is in the minority and you will have to do better than adot, if that's all you have then this conversation is over. you can call it obscure... no one cares. youre either purposely putting misleading rankings out there, (ie pffs which call Julio the games best wr, not thomas. yup, goggle it) or you simply dont understand them yourself. would it help if i linked espn, pff and whatever other obscure website like athlon that calls Julio the best? which im not even saying, its either him or hopkins tbh. but you hang on to that football futures poll. but youre right, the conversation is basically over. you simply cant be unbiased, theres plenty of evidence of that to be true. Thomas is a fantstaic wr but he simply isnt well rounded enough to be the best. im sure youll try to accuse me of "hating" even after saying that, but thats ok. just hoping this doesnt drag on for 8 months and 70 something pages like the rb debate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tyler735 Posted August 12, 2020 Share Posted August 12, 2020 27 minutes ago, GSUeagles14 said: you can call it obscure... no one cares. Kind of like nobody cares about adot. 27 minutes ago, GSUeagles14 said: youre either purposely putting misleading rankings out there, (ie pffs which call Julio the games best wr, not thomas. yup, goggle it) or you simply dont understand them yourself. would it help if i linked espn, pff and whatever other obscure website like athlon that calls Julio the best? which im not even saying, its either him or hopkins tbh. but you hang on to that football futures poll. Yes because sporting new, NFL.com, Athlon, CBS Sports, PFF, NFL top 100 players, this website you continue to post on, etc. are all obscure lol. For the most part these are some of the biggest football publications out there. PFF has 2 recent articles regarding top WR. 1 has Thomas as their highest graded, the other has Thomas as their 2nd ranked WR. Regardless the point still stands Michael Thomas is widely viewed as the top WR, and has the recent accolades to back it up as well. I don't recall seeing another WR win Offensive Player of the Year in the past 20+ years, but please correct me if I'm wrong... 27 minutes ago, GSUeagles14 said: but youre right, the conversation is basically over. you simply cant be unbiased, theres plenty of evidence of that to be true. I cited several major publications that have no horse in this race that align with my view, which generally would mean that I wouldn't be the one that fueled by bias out of the 2 of us right now. 27 minutes ago, GSUeagles14 said: Thomas is a fantstaic wr but he simply isnt well rounded enough to be the best. Literally nobody cares if you don't think he's "well rounded" enough to be the best. At this point in time most disagree with that (biased) assessment. 27 minutes ago, GSUeagles14 said: im sure youll try to accuse me of "hating" even after saying that, but thats ok. just hoping this doesnt drag on for 8 months and 70 something pages like the rb debate. You continue to show you cannot articulate a decent argument. Do better or take your ball and go home Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GSUeagles14 Posted August 12, 2020 Share Posted August 12, 2020 (edited) 8 hours ago, tyler735 said: Kind of like nobody cares about adot. Yes because sporting new, NFL.com, Athlon, CBS Sports, PFF, NFL top 100 players, this website you continue to post on, etc. are all obscure lol. For the most part these are some of the biggest football publications out there. PFF has 2 recent articles regarding top WR. 1 has Thomas as their highest graded, the other has Thomas as their 2nd ranked WR. Regardless the point still stands Michael Thomas is widely viewed as the top WR, and has the recent accolades to back it up as well. I don't recall seeing another WR win Offensive Player of the Year in the past 20+ years, but please correct me if I'm wrong... I cited several major publications that have no horse in this race that align with my view, which generally would mean that I wouldn't be the one that fueled by bias out of the 2 of us right now. Literally nobody cares if you don't think he's "well rounded" enough to be the best. At this point in time most disagree with that (biased) assessment. You continue to show you cannot articulate a decent argument. Do better or take your ball and go home ive moved on from your attempts to ignore adot. you dont like it cause it shows how incomplete thomas is. And again, youre either trying to purposely mislead or you dont understand the pff thing. I have to think its the former as its not that complicated. PFF does not call thomas the best wr. espn, pff, 247 sports, the ringer all say thomas isnt the best wr... i could find some more if youd like. Just say the word. pointless imo but just say the word. I found several major publications that have no horse in the race that align with my view, i wont continue on with this since I hope you get the point? EDIT.... Silly me. Chris Simms also doesnt think Thomas is the best. add that to the list. im also guess the point of includings simms rankings will go over your head, but i hope to be surprised. Edited August 12, 2020 by GSUeagles14 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ET80 Posted August 12, 2020 Share Posted August 12, 2020 Michael Thomas has caught 274 passes in the last two seasons. He's only scored 18 TDs in that timeframe. I see this as a discrepancy. Can someone explain why the #1 WR in a high scoring offense isn't scoring TDs? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tyler735 Posted August 12, 2020 Share Posted August 12, 2020 4 hours ago, ET80 said: Michael Thomas has caught 274 passes in the last two seasons. He's only scored 18 TDs in that timeframe. I see this as a discrepancy. Can someone explain why the #1 WR in a high scoring offense isn't scoring TDs? Doesn't seem that concerning. Julio Jones had likely his best 2 year stretch from 2014-2015. During this time he has 240 catches, 3464 yards, and 14 touchdowns. He was widely considered a top 2 WR during this time with AB. I would also note that Michael Thomas has had 9 touchdowns in 3 of his 4 seasons. Julio Jones has had 1 season in his 9 year career that he has had 9 or more touchdowns in a season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tyler735 Posted August 12, 2020 Share Posted August 12, 2020 8 hours ago, GSUeagles14 said: ive moved on from your attempts to ignore adot. you dont like it cause it shows how incomplete thomas is. Prior to Michael Thomas even being in the NFL I never have used adot to argue for or against a WR, and even currently I haven't used adot to argue for or against a WR in the NFL. In other words, it's an obscure stat that I and most other people don't put much stock in. 8 hours ago, GSUeagles14 said: And again, youre either trying to purposely mislead or you dont understand the pff thing. I have to think its the former as its not that complicated. PFF does not call thomas the best wr. espn, pff, 247 sports, the ringer all say thomas isnt the best wr... i could find some more if youd like. Just say the word. pointless imo but just say the word. I found several major publications that have no horse in the race that align with my view, i wont continue on with this since I hope you get the point? EDIT.... Silly me. Chris Simms also doesnt think Thomas is the best. add that to the list. im also guess the point of includings simms rankings will go over your head, but i hope to be surprised. You're the one saying he can't be the best WR in the league, when so many others disagree with that assessment. That is the point here. Many view Michael Thomas as the best WR in the NFL including myself. How you think that is such a outlandish take is beyond me and reeks of Falcons homerism. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ET80 Posted August 12, 2020 Share Posted August 12, 2020 19 minutes ago, tyler735 said: Doesn't seem that concerning. Julio Jones had likely his best 2 year stretch from 2014-2015. During this time he has 240 catches, 3464 yards, and 14 touchdowns. He was widely considered a top 2 WR during this time with AB. But it was a contested discussion, right? It wasn't undisputed. There were questions. 20 minutes ago, tyler735 said: I would also note that Michael Thomas has had 9 touchdowns in 3 of his 4 seasons. Julio Jones has had 1 season in his 9 year career that he has had 9 or more touchdowns in a season If only we could find a guy who can put up those big reception/yard totals along WITH TDs... If we could find that guy, he'd be #1... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tyler735 Posted August 12, 2020 Share Posted August 12, 2020 13 minutes ago, ET80 said: But it was a contested discussion, right? It wasn't undisputed. There were questions. If only we could find a guy who can put up those big reception/yard totals along WITH TDs... If we could find that guy, he'd be #1... I'd put Hopkins at #2 and Jones at #3. I recently saw an interesting graph showing among WR's Michael Thomas in the past 2 seasons is: 1st in catches- 274 catches 1st in receiving yards- 3,130 receiving yards Tied for 2nd in touchdowns- 18 touchdowns (Tyreek has 19 touchdowns) Seems like he is pretty good at all 3 😉 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hunter2_1 Posted August 13, 2020 Share Posted August 13, 2020 What is 'adot'? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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