Bearerofnews Posted August 13, 2020 Share Posted August 13, 2020 😂😂 the list with no Keenan Allen. Don't change FF or Chris, we all need good parody. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hunter2_1 Posted August 13, 2020 Share Posted August 13, 2020 What sort of range would Edelman rank, for you all?  (I'm obviously not suggesting he belongs on this list 😇) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tyler735 Posted August 13, 2020 Share Posted August 13, 2020 11 hours ago, Hunter2_1 said: What is 'adot'? I think it could be best described as A Dumb Overrated Take Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GSUeagles14 Posted August 13, 2020 Share Posted August 13, 2020 12 hours ago, Hunter2_1 said: What is 'adot'? average depth of target. so are you 8 yards from the los when targeted? 15?  @tyler735 is just throwing a tantrum about it because it doesnt put thomas in good light. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GSUeagles14 Posted August 13, 2020 Share Posted August 13, 2020 12 hours ago, Hunter2_1 said: What sort of range would Edelman rank, for you all?  (I'm obviously not suggesting he belongs on this list 😇) probably nothing that would make you feel great. WRs so deep but prob somewhere between 25-30. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tyler735 Posted August 13, 2020 Share Posted August 13, 2020 (edited) 22 minutes ago, GSUeagles14 said: average depth of target. so are you 8 yards from the los when targeted? 15?  @tyler735 is just throwing a tantrum about it because it doesnt put thomas in good light. No tantrum. Just pointing out that it's widely viewed as fairly irrelevant stat. As mentioned before, prior to Michael Thomas debates I rarely, if ever saw adot used as a major talking point in WR debates, and it shouldn't be any different now. Edited August 13, 2020 by tyler735 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GSUeagles14 Posted August 13, 2020 Share Posted August 13, 2020 (edited) 2 hours ago, tyler735 said: No tantrum. Just pointing out that it's widely viewed as fairly irrelevant stat. As mentioned before, prior to Michael Thomas debates I rarely, if ever saw adot used as a major talking point in WR debates, and it shouldn't be any different now. again, no one cares if you think its irrelevant. like, no one.  its a farirly new stat, which may be why you havent heaed too much about it before? howerver in no way has it only been used to discredit thomas. i mean, just imagine someone doesnt like an advanced stat, say dvoa, or in baseball war, or babip just because it doesnt benefit their team? how silly is that?  i mean, other than you not hearing much of it, why do you not see it as valuable? again, no one cares that you think its irrelevant, so other concerns do you have?   Edited August 13, 2020 by GSUeagles14 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tyler735 Posted August 14, 2020 Share Posted August 14, 2020 1 hour ago, GSUeagles14 said: again, no one cares if you think its irrelevant. like, no one. Judging by your "footballs received to post count" stat on here, nobody cares what you think, like, no one. 1 hour ago, GSUeagles14 said: its a farirly new stat, which may be why you havent heaed too much about it before? howerver in no way has it only been used to discredit thomas. i mean, just imagine someone doesnt like an advanced stat, say dvoa, or in baseball war, or babip just because it doesnt benefit their team? how silly is that? Because adot is not thought of anywhere in the same light as those stats. Even if you need it to help your weak argument it doesn't change anything, we don't care. 1 hour ago, GSUeagles14 said: i mean, other than you not hearing much of it, why do you not see it as valuable? again, no one cares that you think its irrelevant, so other concerns do you have? Production>>>adot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GSUeagles14 Posted August 14, 2020 Share Posted August 14, 2020 1 hour ago, tyler735 said: Judging by your "footballs received to post count" stat on here, nobody cares what you think, like, no one. Because adot is not thought of anywhere in the same light as those stats. Even if you need it to help your weak argument it doesn't change anything, we don't care. Production>>>adot yea man, youre not throwing a tantrum at all. theres not point in going back and forth anymore, better information=bad. really glad other people get to see this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tyler735 Posted August 14, 2020 Share Posted August 14, 2020 27 minutes ago, GSUeagles14 said: yea man, youre not throwing a tantrum at all. theres not point in going back and forth anymore, better information=bad. really glad other people get to see this. Yeah play that victim card... All people get to see is you unable to make a sound argument. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ET80 Posted August 14, 2020 Share Posted August 14, 2020 7 hours ago, tyler735 said: Yeah play that victim card... All people get to see is you unable to make a sound argument. No, he made a sound argument. He used an advanced metric that does tell a story - it's not necessarily a bad story, just a story. This is the closest thing you've made to a counter: 9 hours ago, tyler735 said: Production>>>adot This is a valid response - but trying to discredit the stat because you don't find value to it doesn't mean it's not valuable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jlowe22 Posted August 14, 2020 Share Posted August 14, 2020 We still up in here arguing about this? Everything that needed to be said has been said ages ago. No minds gonna get changed. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tyler735 Posted August 14, 2020 Share Posted August 14, 2020 (edited) 6 hours ago, ET80 said: No, he made a sound argument. He used an advanced metric that does tell a story - it's not necessarily a bad story, just a story. The problem here is if we are going to use a "story" analogy...He has been essentially telling the Twilight series, and I have been telling the Lord Of the Rings trilogy. In other words, like the twilight series his argument has lacked any real depth, and hasn't evolved into anything more than adot for almost a year now looking back at previous discussions with him. On the other hand, during the course of our back and forth disagreements across numerous threads, I have shared several different stats, advanced stats, WR grades, accolades, records broken that show Michael Thomas has a legitimate case to currently be considered the top WR in. This isn't to say he is significantly better than a guy like Hopkins, or Jones, but it's absurd to me that some don't think Thomas has a legit argument as the top WR because of adot or not being a dominant deep threat. Quote This is the closest thing you've made to a counter: This is a valid response - but trying to discredit the stat because you don't find value to it doesn't mean it's not valuable. I suppose it's time to bring out some of the stats advanced stats, etc that I've used in previous threads then. Traditional Bulk Stats (Bold= Advantage in stat category): Michael Thomas 2018: Targets 147, Receptions 125, Receiving Yards 1405, Touchdowns 9, First Downs 82  2019: Targets 185, Receptions 149, Receiving Yards 1725, Touchdowns 9, First Downs 91 Combined: Targets 332, Receptions 274, Receiving Yards 3130, Touchdowns 18, First Downs 173 Julio Jones 2018: Targets 170, Receptions 113, Receiving Yards 1677, Touchdowns 8, First Downs 80 2019: Targets 157, Receptions 99, Receiving Yards 1394, Touchdowns 6, First Downs 77 Combined: Targets 327, Receptions 212, Receiving Yards 3071, Touchdowns 14, First Downs 157 Advantage: Michael Thomas  Advanced Statistics (Bold= Advantage in stat category) Michael Thomas 2018: Catch Percentage 85%, Yards Per Target 9.6, Yards After Catch 514, Broken Tackles 6, Drop Percentage 2.0%, QB Rating 124.1, ADOT 7.7, Yards Per Route Run 2.74 2019: Catch Percentage 80.5%, Yards Per Target 9.3, Yards After Catch 583, Broken Tackles 5, Drop Percentage 3.2%, QB Rating 121.7, ADOT 8.1, Yards Per Route Run 2.88 Julio Jones 2018: Catch Percentage 66.5%, Yards Per Target 9.9, Yards After Catch 448, Broken Tackles 3, Drop Percentage 5.3%, QB Rating 106.9, ADOT 14, Yards Per Route Run 2.88 2019: Catch Percentage 63.1%, Yards Per Target 8.9, Yards After Catch 364, Broken Tackles 7, Drop Percentage 2.5%, QB Rating 91.1, ADOT 12.2, Yards Per Route Run 2.44 Advantage: Michael Thomas  Accolades past 2 seasons: Michael Thomas: 2018: 1st Team All Pro, Pro Bowl, Week 9 Player of the Week- NFC 2019: NFL Offensive Player of the Year, 1st Team All Pro, Pro Bowl, November Player of the Month- NFC Julio Jones: 2018: Pro Bowl 2019: Pro Bowl Advantage: Michael Thomas  As mentioned before, we are telling different stories, sure in this thread up until this point I hadn't put much effort in my responses, but that is largely because GSU continues to cite adot, but can't do much else with his argument. These kinds of numbers (and more) have been posted in other threads between us, but when I keep getting the same talking point from him with little substance, it really doesn't motivate me to put the effort into rehashing it all over again. I have used past 2 seasons as when I try to say "past season", I get the "well Henry and Chubb had great numbers for 1 year, do you consider them the best in the league" argument. It seems in many ways Michael Thomas has had comparable if not better numbers in many different statistical categories in comparison to Julio Jones, and undoubtedly take the win in terms of accolades the past 2 years even if people don't agree with them. Edited August 14, 2020 by tyler735 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GSUeagles14 Posted August 14, 2020 Share Posted August 14, 2020 40 minutes ago, tyler735 said: The problem here is if we are going to use a "story" analogy...He has been essentially telling the Twilight series, and I have been telling the Lord Of the Rings trilogy. In other words, like the twilight series his argument has lacked any real depth, and hasn't evolved into anything more than adot for almost a year now looking back at previous discussions with him. On the other hand, during the course of our back and forth disagreements across numerous threads, I have shared several different stats, advanced stats, WR grades, accolades, records broken that show Michael Thomas has a legitimate case to currently be considered the top WR in. This isn't to say he is significantly better than a guy like Hopkins, or Jones, but it's absurd to me that some don't think Thomas has a legit argument as the top WR because of adot or not being a dominant deep threat. I suppose it's time to bring out some of the stats advanced stats, etc that I've used in previous threads then. Traditional Bulk Stats (Bold= Advantage in stat category): Michael Thomas 2018: Targets 147, Receptions 125, Receiving Yards 1405, Touchdowns 9, First Downs 82  2019: Targets 185, Receptions 149, Receiving Yards 1725, Touchdowns 9, First Downs 91 Combined: Targets 332, Receptions 274, Receiving Yards 3130, Touchdowns 18, First Downs 173 Julio Jones 2018: Targets 170, Receptions 113, Receiving Yards 1677, Touchdowns 8, First Downs 80 2019: Targets 157, Receptions 99, Receiving Yards 1394, Touchdowns 6, First Downs 77 Combined: Targets 327, Receptions 212, Receiving Yards 3071, Touchdowns 14, First Downs 157 Advantage: Michael Thomas  Advanced Statistics (Bold= Advantage in stat category) Michael Thomas 2018: Catch Percentage 85%, Yards Per Target 9.6, Yards After Catch 514, Broken Tackles 6, Drop Percentage 2.0%, QB Rating 124.1, ADOT 7.7, Yards Per Route Run 2.74 2019: Catch Percentage 80.5%, Yards Per Target 9.3, Yards After Catch 583, Broken Tackles 5, Drop Percentage 3.2%, QB Rating 121.7, ADOT 8.1, Yards Per Route Run 2.88 Julio Jones 2018: Catch Percentage 66.5%, Yards Per Target 9.9, Yards After Catch 448, Broken Tackles 3, Drop Percentage 5.3%, QB Rating 106.9, ADOT 14, Yards Per Route Run 2.88 2019: Catch Percentage 63.1%, Yards Per Target 8.9, Yards After Catch 364, Broken Tackles 7, Drop Percentage 2.5%, QB Rating 91.1, ADOT 12.2, Yards Per Route Run 2.44 Advantage: Michael Thomas  Accolades past 2 seasons: Michael Thomas: 2018: 1st Team All Pro, Pro Bowl, Week 9 Player of the Week- NFC 2019: NFL Offensive Player of the Year, 1st Team All Pro, Pro Bowl, November Player of the Month- NFC Julio Jones: 2018: Pro Bowl 2019: Pro Bowl Advantage: Michael Thomas  As mentioned before, we are telling different stories, sure in this thread up until this point I hadn't put much effort in my responses, but that is largely because GSU continues to cite adot, but can't do much else with his argument. These kinds of numbers (and more) have been posted in other threads between us, but when I keep getting the same talking point from him with little substance, it really doesn't motivate me to put the effort into rehashing it all over again. I have used past 2 seasons as when I try to say "past season", I get the "well Henry and Chubb had great numbers for 1 year, do you consider them the best in the league" argument. It seems in many ways Michael Thomas has had comparable if not better numbers in many different statistical categories in comparison to Julio Jones, and undoubtedly take the win in terms of accolades the past 2 years even if people don't agree with them. Yes, Michael thomas runs an extreme amount of shorter routes, thats simply fact. Just statistically , those are going to be easier to complete. So that explains the majority of your advance statistics such as catch rate. yards/roye, qb rating, etc. Oh, and you left several accolades off of jones... why?  But anyway,  i dont recall bringing up chubb but i certainly remeber henry and it had nothing to do with one year. I guess that you didnt understand the argument (or purposefully misrepresenting it) but the point was that not many consider him in what the top 4-5 backs? Why? His rushing yards says he should be, as does his tds and probably multiple other stats i could look up. But again, why isnt he considered a top 1-2 back in the league? Doubt i get an answer on that one, so ill just answer it for you. He doesnt do everything that the other backs do.  And theres the crux of it. Youve never seen me say thomas isnt extremely productive. As Ive said like 4 times now, he just isnt well rounded enough to be considered the best imo. We can call him the best short route wr in the league though.  Going to take @Jlowe22's advice now and just stop.   Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tyler735 Posted August 14, 2020 Share Posted August 14, 2020 (edited) 15 minutes ago, GSUeagles14 said: Yes, Michael thomas runs an extreme amount of shorter routes, thats simply fact. Just statistically , those are going to be easier to complete. So that explains the majority of your advance statistics such as catch rate. yards/roye, qb rating, etc. Oh, and you left several accolades off of jones... why? Which major accolades in the past 2 years? Beyond2 years isn't all that relevant in a who is currently the best discussion not who has had the best career discussion. Quote But anyway,  i dont recall bringing up chubb but i certainly remeber henry and it had nothing to do with one year. I guess that you didnt understand the argument (or purposefully misrepresenting it) but the point was that not many consider him in what the top 4-5 backs? Why? His rushing yards says he should be, as does his tds and probably multiple other stats i could look up. But again, why isnt he considered a top 1-2 back in the league? Doubt i get an answer on that one, so ill just answer it for you. He doesnt do everything that the other backs do. Because McCaffrey has been better and Henry has had 1 great year I'm sure if he does it again the convo will be there for him. Just like Michael Thomas has had 2 good years and 2 elite years in his 4 year career. The past 2 seasons have shown Michael Thomas should be considered for best WR in the NFL. Quote And theres the crux of it. Youve never seen me say thomas isnt extremely productive. As Ive said like 4 times now, he just isnt well rounded enough to be considered the best imo. We can call him the best short route wr in the league though. We can call him that since he is also that, and many others can call him the best WR in the league because he has a legit argument for it. If you disagree that's your opinion, but don't be calling people that have him #1 biased homers just because his adot isn't up to your liking.  Edited August 14, 2020 by tyler735 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts