Chris Simms' Top 10 WRs

[wackywabbit]

I don't think it's that wild to have Hill #1. If you have the a QB capable of delivering the deep ball, he may be the skill player who poses the biggest problem for opposing defenses. His production will likely not pass guys like MT and Hopkins, but the attention he demands on the field provides a greater net value. 

[scar988]

On 7/23/2020 at 1:59 PM, Yin-Yang said:

I imagine that holds true for most of the top 15 or so wide receivers, but that’s without any of those numbers in front of me.

Oddly enough, in Ryan’s best season, Julio only had 2 red zone TDs on 11 targets. Not a full context snapshot, as those all could’ve been from the 20 yard line. But still interesting, Jones had about as many catches, with less overall TDs, and less targets (all RZ) than this last season.

You’re not going to see me gas up the Falcons OCs here, lol. 

They’re probably the flukiest stat in the NFL, yes. They can be products of an offense, yes. But you still expect the elite, GOATy guys to get their TDs...at least some of the time. 

No one got that extra special double team treatment more than Megatron IMO, and he was a guy that more often than not, got his numbers. Regardless of Nate Burleson being his #2 or dog poop being his OC. Guys like Antonio Brown or Randy Moss seemed to produce in these spots. That can’t all be on the OCs. And yeah, that’s high company to compare anyone to, but Jones is in the conversation so those are his contemporaries.

EDIT: And FWIW, I’m not praising MT as this GOAT red zone guy. Nor am I saying he’s above Julio. Just pointing out that you can’t just dismiss Julio’s lack of production in the red zone. Jerry didn’t have great deep speed, Moss “never went over the middle”, TO was a locker room cancer, AB isn’t big enough - all of the greats had slights somewhere or another (other than Megatron IMO).

Julio Jones averages .45 TDs per game in his career. That means every other game, he's getting a TD. People love to look at raw per-season #'s. But, if Julio Jones wasn't injured for 11 games in 2013, 3 games as a rookie, 4 games since 2013, and played a ton of games banged up, he has quite a few more TDs than he does. The real issue with Julio injury. Not lack of TDs.

[Soko]

4 hours ago, scar988 said:

Julio Jones averages .45 TDs per game in his career. That means every other game, he's getting a TD. People love to look at raw per-season #'s. But, if Julio Jones wasn't injured for 11 games in 2013, 3 games as a rookie, 4 games since 2013, and played a ton of games banged up, he has quite a few more TDs than he does. The real issue with Julio injury. Not lack of TDs.

AB - 0.57

Green - 0.57

Hopkins - 0.49

Megatron - 0.61

Fitz - 0.48

MT - 0.51

Those are just names off the top of my head, no omissions. It should be a red flag that Julio is dead last amongst many elite WRs. It’s not because he was injured. 

[CWood21]

The sheer lack of Davante Adams is astonishing.

[kingseanjohn]

On 7/31/2020 at 1:54 PM, Yin-Yang said:

AB - 0.57

Green - 0.57

Hopkins - 0.49

Megatron - 0.61

Fitz - 0.48

MT - 0.51

Those are just names off the top of my head, no omissions. It should be a red flag that Julio is dead last amongst many elite WRs. It’s not because he was injured. 

Are these just receiving?

Adding Hill for comparison.

Receiving: 0.54

Receiving/Rushing: 0.61

R/R/Returns: 0.69

[Soko]

16 minutes ago, kingseanjohn said:

Are these just receiving?

Adding Hill for comparison.

Receiving: 0.54

Receiving/Rushing: 0.61

R/R/Returns: 0.69

Yeah, just receiving TDs/per game. In the context of wide receivers - guys like Hill definitely present value in other ways, but it’s a receiver thread. 

I’m not dumping on Julio as a RZ guy but there’s not an excuse for a guy as great as he is to be so low on that list. 

[TakeTheBallDeep]

I would remove AJ Green or Cooper and add in Adams. I love Sutton and I think he’s a little underrated, guy plays with a lot of passion 

[AkronsWitness]

I'll keep this train rolling but Amari Cooper is not a top 10 WR. He's borderline top 15 at best.

I don't know how many more disappearing acts people need to see from him to be convinced

He was held under 50 yards in 7 games last year and multiple games under 30 yards. He can't play on the road. At home he is a really good #1 WR, on the road he is maybe the #47th best WR in the NFL

Edited August 5, 2020 by AkronsWitness

[Kip Smithers]

People should stop taking Chris Simms’ opinions seriously. 

[Soko]

On 8/4/2020 at 11:03 PM, AkronsWitness said:

I'll keep this train rolling but Amari Cooper is not a top 10 WR. He's borderline top 15 at best.

I don't know how many more disappearing acts people need to see from him to be convinced

He was held under 50 yards in 7 games last year and multiple games under 30 yards. He can't play on the road. At home he is a really good #1 WR, on the road he is maybe the #47th best WR in the NFL

In defense of Coop, he doesn’t see the targets that most of the greats see. And while there’s definitely truth to the notion that perhaps if he were better, he’d get open more, and get the ball, there are definitely lesser receivers that saw more targets. 

Less than Jamison Crowder, Julian Edelman, Robert Woods, Tyler Boyd, Jarvis Landry, DJ Moore, even less than non-WRs in CMC, Ertz, and Kelce. 21st in targets, but 8th in yards. He was also on just a handful of teams that had multiple 1K+ yard receivers. I don’t think using his yardage on a game to game basis is the best way of judging him. 

Not sure I’d put him in the top-10, but that has more to do with how many great receivers there are than it does Cooper. I think there’s only about 8 receivers or so that are definitively better than Amari, so he’s in that position IMO. 

[AkronsWitness]

8 hours ago, Yin-Yang said:

In defense of Coop, he doesn’t see the targets that most of the greats see. And while there’s definitely truth to the notion that perhaps if he were better, he’d get open more, and get the ball, there are definitely lesser receivers that saw more targets. 

Less than Jamison Crowder, Julian Edelman, Robert Woods, Tyler Boyd, Jarvis Landry, DJ Moore, even less than non-WRs in CMC, Ertz, and Kelce. 21st in targets, but 8th in yards. He was also on just a handful of teams that had multiple 1K+ yard receivers. I don’t think using his yardage on a game to game basis is the best way of judging him. 

Not sure I’d put him in the top-10, but that has more to do with how many great receivers there are than it does Cooper. I think there’s only about 8 receivers or so that are definitively better than Amari, so he’s in that position IMO. 

Good post. From what I have seen from afar (because Cowboys games are on TV 24/7) he is just incredibly inconsistent. He is the type of guy who will have 5 or 6 really good statistical games where he blows up---then thats what everybody thinks he is. He will then go on a stretch of 4 catch for 37 yard games.

The top 10 WRs in the NFL are essentially matchup proof and will have their impact regardless of the CB or defense. You know its coming to them and they still cant stop it type of guys. Amari Cooper is not in that category to me. He doesnt do it on a weekly basis. He does it 5 or 6 times a year. Thats why I have him more in the 13-15 range than 7-10 range like others do.

[Soko]

45 minutes ago, AkronsWitness said:

Good post. From what I have seen from afar (because Cowboys games are on TV 24/7) he is just incredibly inconsistent. He is the type of guy who will have 5 or 6 really good statistical games where he blows up---then thats what everybody thinks he is. He will then go on a stretch of 4 catch for 37 yard games.

The top 10 WRs in the NFL are essentially matchup proof and will have their impact regardless of the CB or defense. You know its coming to them and they still cant stop it type of guys. Amari Cooper is not in that category to me. He doesnt do it on a weekly basis. He does it 5 or 6 times a year. Thats why I have him more in the 13-15 range than 7-10 range like others do.

Statistically he is very inconsistent. I just am not confident that that is a result of him more so than it is that offense. Cobb and Gallup combined for just a hair under 2,000 yards themselves, and you know Zeke is going to eat.

There were really only two occasions where they were trying to get Cooper the ball but couldn’t, and that’s in a loss vs Philly and a win vs Detroit (he also got locked up by Gilmore vs NE but he wasn’t getting many looks).

His top 4 games in targets were all losses, which I think sort of shows that the offense isn’t doing what it wants to when it’s forcing Cooper the ball. Maybe Amari is a hot-cold type player (I’ve seen him be cold), but I’m not sure the yards are the answer to that. I think you’ll probably see something similar this year, he might not even be a 1K guy. But not because he’s fallen off, there’s just a lot of mouths to feed in that offense - maybe more than any other.

[SteelKing728]

1. Mike Thomas

2. Deandre Hopkins

3. Mike Evans

4. Julio Jones

5. Devante Adams

6. Tyreek Hill

7. Odell Beckham Jr

8. Keenan Allen

9. Chris Godwin

10. Kenny Golladay

(11-15 in some order is Diggs, Thielen, Cooper, Edelman and Sutton)

 

[braylon]

On 7/22/2020 at 9:42 AM, scar988 said:

Guys who do it all and are consistent and also draw doubles and matchup zones and brackets all game.

1) Julio Jones

2) Nuk Hopkins 

_____________________________________________

Guys who do it all and are consistent

3) Mike Evans

4) Odell Beckham

5) A.J. Green

6) A.J. Brown

7) Chris Godwin

_____________________________________________

Guys who do 2-3 things exceptionally well but have a hole in their game the guys ahead of them don't.

😎 Tyreek Hill (doesn't go over the middle and can't take a hit)

9) Michael Thomas (can't go deep effectively and doesn't have breakaway speed for YAC)

10) Stephon Diggs (has issues with consistency, sometimes blows up, sometimes is trash)

Julio is the best WR in the NFL, I agree. But you're going too far with your MT and Tyreek hate. Both of the points you made in parentheses are not only untrue, but also shouldn't preclude them from being ranked higher. What Tyreek's speed does for an offense (and to a defense) can't be replicated by any other WR you mentioned.

[scar988]

15 minutes ago, braylon said:

Julio is the best WR in the NFL, I agree. But you're going too far with your MT and Tyreek hate. Both of the points you made in parentheses are not only untrue, but also shouldn't preclude them from being ranked higher. What Tyreek's speed does for an offense (and to a defense) can't be replicated by any other WR you mentioned.

Film study shows that they both are true. It's not hate. It's what they are. I like complete wide receivers. Not incomplete players. Can't be the best unless you can do it all.