Empire Lies Posted October 4, 2021 Share Posted October 4, 2021 46 minutes ago, candyman93 said: They’re not letting Jack Conklin walk. That would be moronic. I don't know man. We don't have enough info from Andrew Berry and DePo yet to know quite exactly their beliefs on signing 29 and 30 year old guys long-term and that's what Conklin will be at that time next year after next season heading into free agency. He'll likely play well enough up until then to necessitate a longer term contract from other organizations. Based on what we know now, I'd bet that this offseason they'll be looking for the young guy that might replace Conklin after next year. I was not saying that they'll cut Conklin this offseason but if they plan to let him walk after next year then the contingency planning begins now. They only seem to break some of their age guard rails for stop gap solutions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LETSGOBROWNIES Posted October 4, 2021 Share Posted October 4, 2021 20 minutes ago, MWil23 said: 20 minutes ago, MWil23 said: I'm not criticizing him, and he can only do what he does/make the most of opportunities given to him. I'm just saying that he hasn't shown that he CAN be that #1 guy, or that he CAN'T be that #1 guy. He's still basically an unknown going forward. Ah ok yeah. 20 minutes ago, MWil23 said: I won't be surprised one bit, and I also wouldn't be surprised if they're counting on Felton being the "heir apparent" in the slot. I don't think that he's going to be asked to do much in the backfield unless it's purely in a 2 back set (passing) with Hunt. oh I think that’s pretty clear now. We’re nearly a quarter of the way through the season, has zero carries and has played exclusively WR. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Empire Lies Posted October 4, 2021 Share Posted October 4, 2021 42 minutes ago, MWil23 said: Definitely, unless they believe the kid from UC they drafted this past year is the viable answer for the future at one of those spots. That would be madness but certainly possible. 42 minutes ago, MWil23 said: With EVERY QB OL is king. Ask Patrick Mahomes last year in the Super Bowl, or Tom Brady at basically any point of his career. Of course this is true, but over the course of a season high quality OL play is likely to mean more to less athletic running QB like Baker relative to the other top QBs with better escapability and running prowess. Baker made the OLine a non-factor back in the Greg Robinson, Eric Kush, and Chris Hubbard days, but I don't think that's sustainable for any QB and Baker in particular. 48 minutes ago, MWil23 said: Given the contracts on the table, that still leaves plenty of room to adding some help on the outside. Schwartz is likely a true slot type or #4, and DPJ needs to start showing some of those flashes that we've seen on the outside. Even if they both show you that (we'll see), you desperately still need another outside guy, even if you bring back Hollywood again, because he's a move in/out of the slot guy as well. For sure. Assuming OBJ and Jarvis will be on the roster next year, it's hard to see them spending serious draft capital or Free Agent money required to get an impact guy when they have DPJ and Schwartz on the roster. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LETSGOBROWNIES Posted October 4, 2021 Share Posted October 4, 2021 1 minute ago, Empire Lies said: I don't know man. We don't have enough info from Andrew Berry and DePo yet to know quite exactly their beliefs on signing 29 and 30 year old guys long-term and that's what Conklin will be at that time next year after next season heading into free agency. How many guys truly sign long term? Most of these 4-5 year deals are really 2-3 year contracts when you factor in team outs. 1 minute ago, Empire Lies said: He'll likely play well enough up until then to necessitate a longer term contract from other organizations. Based on what we know now, I'd bet that this offseason they'll be looking for the young guy that might replace Conklin after next year. Maybe, but I’d imagine they may need to replace Bitonio, Tretter and Teller too. Maybe they pay to solidify the tackle spots? 1 minute ago, Empire Lies said: I was not saying that they'll cut Conklin this offseason but if they plan to let him walk after next year then the contingency planning begins now. They only seem to break some of their age guard rails for stop gap solutions. I mean I wouldn’t want to sign a bunch of geriatrics either, but 30-31 isn’t really that old for an OL. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MWil23 Posted October 4, 2021 Share Posted October 4, 2021 If I HAD to bet, based upon what we know about DePo, Berry to a degree, and even Stefanski and his success, including how he makes decisions (goes for it on 4th Down, doesn't kick FG as often, highly analytics driven, highly into efficiency, etc.), I'm betting: *They'll let Teller WALK unless it's a team friendly deal, and they'll absolutely take a compensation pick for him. The same is likely out of OBJ, Landry, and Conklin (albeit the OT argument is there) due to age and salary alone. Some of this will be dictated by need, value, etc., but as a whole, that's my bet. *Clowney and Takk intrigue me, as does Denzel Ward. On paper, we have Ward's replacement and/or his Robin in Newsome. However, those are PREMIUM IMPACT POSITIONS, and I can see them getting paid/extended to some extent. The WAR doesn't exist for a RG (Teller), LG (Bitonio's contract/expiring when it does), and C (Tretter when he ages out/his contract expires), so I can absolutely see a case to be made to let those guys walk and get some high compensation picks. If I'm a betting man, I think that they keep their core players who produce intact, spend money at the QB, EDGE, and secondary spots, and use compensation picks to reload while continuing to roll over cap and save money. Chubb and Hunt took team friendly deals and they're essential. Myles has been PAID. JJ3 has been PAID. Hooper (UNFORTUNATELY) has been PAID. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MWil23 Posted October 4, 2021 Share Posted October 4, 2021 6 minutes ago, Empire Lies said: For sure. Assuming OBJ and Jarvis will be on the roster next year, it's hard to see them spending serious draft capital or Free Agent money required to get an impact guy when they have DPJ and Schwartz on the roster. That's assuming that neither of them get moved or released. It's not overly likely, but it wouldn't be a shock either given their lack of a cap hit (Landry would actually really surprise me assuming he balls out again this year). In theory, I could see them free up some of that money and use major draft/free agent capital on a guy. https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/free-agents/all/wide-receiver/ There are some big names on that list, but even guys like Sutton or Gallup wouldn't surprise me as a pick-up if we went that route. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Empire Lies Posted October 4, 2021 Share Posted October 4, 2021 1 minute ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said: Maybe, but I’d imagine they may need to replace Bitonio, Tretter and Teller too. Maybe they pay to solidify the tackle spots? Bitonio, Tretter, and Conklin are all up for UFA after next year. It's going to make for some interesting decisions over the next year. Assuming Baker gets a top 8 QB contract, some tough decisions will be made. Bitonio is still the superior player though his elite play has declined some. One could argue that Conklin is at a more important position but there are those that make the point that inside pressure for a QB like Baker may be more important to guard against. Maybe they feel like they have an adequate Center replacement in Nick Harris or that analytically quality Centers are available at many levels in the draft and Free Agency. I'd bet that you are right that they'd pay to solidify the Tackle spots but I wonder if Jack Conklin is that guy or if instead they'd rather commit money to a JJ3 type of guy at the Tackle position (young, very talented, smart, tough, accountable), As those guys never make it to Free Agency at the Tackle position, it all comes down to the Draft and if a guy like a Ryan Ramcyzk falls to the latter part of the 1st rounds for the Browns. Will be interesting to see what happens. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LETSGOBROWNIES Posted October 4, 2021 Share Posted October 4, 2021 3 minutes ago, Empire Lies said: Bitonio, Tretter, and Conklin are all up for UFA after next year. It's going to make for some interesting decisions over the next year. Yep. Makes me think they’re going to make a couple decent investments in the OL this April. 3 minutes ago, Empire Lies said: Assuming Baker gets a top 8 QB contract, some tough decisions will be made. Bitonio is still the superior player though his elite play has declined some. Yeah, he’s still the best of the bunch, and honestly the best OL we have in general. He’s solid af, durable and consistent. 3 minutes ago, Empire Lies said: One could argue that Conklin is at a more important position but there are those that make the point that inside pressure for a QB like Baker may be more important to guard against. I think the argument would simply be decent tackles are harder to find/develop. 3 minutes ago, Empire Lies said: Maybe they feel like they have an adequate Center replacement in Nick Harris or that analytically quality Centers are available at many levels in the draft and Free Agency. Agreed. 3 minutes ago, Empire Lies said: I'd bet that you are right that they'd pay to solidify the Tackle spots but I wonder if Jack Conklin is that guy or if instead they'd rather commit money to a JJ3 type of guy at the Tackle position (young, very talented, smart, tough, accountable), As those guys never make it to Free Agency at the Tackle position, it all comes down to the Draft and if a guy like a Ryan Ramcyzk falls to the latter part of the 1st rounds for the Browns. Will be interesting to see what happens. I also think you have to give these young guys time to develop. Hard to project what a guy like Hudson could be in another year or two. Gotta keep bringing these guys in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Empire Lies Posted October 4, 2021 Share Posted October 4, 2021 (edited) 14 minutes ago, MWil23 said: That's assuming that neither of them get moved or released. It's not overly likely, but it wouldn't be a shock either given their lack of a cap hit (Landry would actually really surprise me assuming he balls out again this year). In theory, I could see them free up some of that money and use major draft/free agent capital on a guy. https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/free-agents/all/wide-receiver/ There are some big names on that list, but even guys like Sutton or Gallup wouldn't surprise me as a pick-up if we went that route. They aren't cutting Jarvis or OBJ. I seriously doubt either of them are getting teams to give up 1st round draft capital. So, the question for Andrew Berry becomes is it better to give them the opportunity to thrive and hope for the best on the team or to accept lesser draft capital. Teams probably give up a 2nd rounder for OBJ's services given that teams will think "he still has immense talent, he's matured some, and our QB isn't going to have the same chemistry issues." But Teams know they'll have to give him a new contract. Given Jarvis' recent injury history, declining athleticism, and that he'll need a new contract, means teams probably would only be willing to give up a 3rd Rounder at best. Jarvis adds too much to this organization to consider a 3rd rounder meaningful imo. There's of course the other weird issue regarding how Jarvis would feel about moving on from OBJ. He's a professional so in the end it likely wouldn't be but there's always the possibility that Jarvis starts to look for greener pastures if Baker doesn't take the next step. Edited October 4, 2021 by Empire Lies Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MWil23 Posted October 4, 2021 Share Posted October 4, 2021 2 minutes ago, Empire Lies said: They aren't cutting Jarvis or OBJ. I also said "move" 2 minutes ago, Empire Lies said: I seriously doubt either of them are getting teams to give up 1st round draft capital. They won't. But, if they determine that the benefit of the pick and dumping the salary and utilizing that on a different player and/or position and freeing up that space elsewhere exists, I could see it. That's my point. 2 minutes ago, Empire Lies said: So, the question for Andrew Berry becomes is it better to give them the opportunity to thrive and hope for the best on the team or to accept lesser draft capital. They've definitely taken the "he's more valuable to us than we'll fetch in a trade" philosophy with OBJ to this point, not that I blame them. 2 minutes ago, Empire Lies said: Teams probably give up a 2nd rounder for OBJ's services given that teams will think "he still has immense talent, he's matured some, and our QB isn't going to have the same chemistry issues." But Teams know they'll have to give him a new contract. His current contract is also a bit steep, especially given his production issue(s) coupled with his injury history. It's the "chicken or the egg" argument as to that production, so I'm not going down that wormhole here. 2 minutes ago, Empire Lies said: Given Jarvis' recent injury history, declining athleticism, and that he'll need a new contract, means teams probably would only be willing to give up a 3rd Rounder at best. Which, tbh, is about what he'll fetch in a comp pick situation. It becomes whether they think he's valuable to the Browns still, and whether they want that salary dump and 3rd rounder now or in a year. 2 minutes ago, Empire Lies said: Jarvis adds too much to this organization to consider a 3rd rounder meaningful imo. 100% in agreement 2 minutes ago, Empire Lies said: There's of course the other weird issue regarding how Jarvis would feel about moving on from OBJ. He's a professional so in the end it likely wouldn't be but there's always the possibility that Jarvis starts to look for greener pastures if Baker doesn't take the next step. There's always that possibility, and I could see it go either way. I love Jarvis as a locker room presence and culture guy as well. However, I'd be surprised if he could find greener pastures elsewhere, unless one of the young QB's really takes off and he sees himself as an ideal fit there as both a #1 guy and the chance to compete for a winner more so than here. I'm not sure that team exists in his professional window. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
candyman93 Posted October 10, 2021 Author Share Posted October 10, 2021 Really like Perrion Winfrey of Oklahoma. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtmmike Posted October 10, 2021 Share Posted October 10, 2021 On 10/4/2021 at 9:47 AM, MWil23 said: I also said "move" They won't. But, if they determine that the benefit of the pick and dumping the salary and utilizing that on a different player and/or position and freeing up that space elsewhere exists, I could see it. That's my point. They've definitely taken the "he's more valuable to us than we'll fetch in a trade" philosophy with OBJ to this point, not that I blame them. His current contract is also a bit steep, especially given his production issue(s) coupled with his injury history. It's the "chicken or the egg" argument as to that production, so I'm not going down that wormhole here. Which, tbh, is about what he'll fetch in a comp pick situation. It becomes whether they think he's valuable to the Browns still, and whether they want that salary dump and 3rd rounder now or in a year. 100% in agreement There's always that possibility, and I could see it go either way. I love Jarvis as a locker room presence and culture guy as well. However, I'd be surprised if he could find greener pastures elsewhere, unless one of the young QB's really takes off and he sees himself as an ideal fit there as both a #1 guy and the chance to compete for a winner more so than here. I'm not sure that team exists in his professional window. Everybody brings up excellent arguments what did Newengland pay for Sato? Second to sign a 1000 yard receiver you will go North of both landrys and obj real salary right now Proposal extend Obj and landry so there salary cap hit is not to expensive. On 10/4/2021 at 9:28 AM, Empire Lies said: Bitonio, Tretter, and Conklin are all up for UFA after next year. It's going to make for some interesting decisions over the next year. Assuming Baker gets a top 8 QB contract, some tough decisions will be made. Bitonio is still the superior player though his elite play has declined some. One could argue that Conklin is at a more important position but there are those that make the point that inside pressure for a QB like Baker may be more important to guard against. Maybe they feel like they have an adequate Center replacement in Nick Harris or that analytically quality Centers are available at many levels in the draft and Free Agency. I'd bet that you are right that they'd pay to solidify the Tackle spots but I wonder if Jack Conklin is that guy or if instead they'd rather commit money to a JJ3 type of guy at the Tackle position (young, very talented, smart, tough, accountable), As those guys never make it to Free Agency at the Tackle position, it all comes down to the Draft and if a guy like a Ryan Ramcyzk falls to the latter part of the 1st rounds for the Browns. Will be interesting to see what happens. How due you rate the tackles this year. I think the tackles are better than the wide receivers? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
candyman93 Posted October 11, 2021 Author Share Posted October 11, 2021 I think @LETSGOBROWNIESis right. Baker needs a big jump ball WR. Here’s the perfect mold of that: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NateDawg Posted October 11, 2021 Share Posted October 11, 2021 I don’t even care if it is a “jump ball receiver”. He needs good receivers. We have a few guys out there that are going to look good once or twice a game, but no consistency out wide. Particularly lacking with Jarvis Landry injured. Odell Beckham should just be relegated to the bench and sent packing in the off-season. Burks, Garrett Wilson, whatever. We need some dudes in that room that are going to win one on one match ups and separate. It’s unfortunate because, as it’s obvious, we have needs we need to continue to address on defense. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
candyman93 Posted October 11, 2021 Author Share Posted October 11, 2021 Drake London has been doing extremely well. He has 800 yards receiving already. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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