Let's do this....Wilson vs Mahomes

[AFlaccoSeagulls]

7 minutes ago, Archimedes said:

Don’t be dense. His typical level as in where he sits statistically overall for the season. I called him elite. I compared him to a HOFer (Brees), obviously I didn’t mean his typical level was 10 turnovers in 4 games. Slinging the ball all over the field isn’t Wilson’s game. He’s not Mahomes. He’s not Rodgers. He thrives in run heavy offenses when he’s able to then use his deep ball to burn the defense when they start worrying about the run game. He’s never established himself as being able to maintain an elite level play over the course of a season in a pass heavy offense as Mahomes or Rodgers.

His Oline isn’t nearly as bad as you’re trying to make it out to be. That’s just absurd narrative speak. He legitimately has issues with holding the ball too long. And Mahomes HAS had to prop up a historically bad defense... You know, in his first ever year as a starter. Where he lost two games where his team put up 40 and 50 points.

People like you just keep making excuses for Wilson and that’s fine. He’s fantastic. He’ll bounce back. He’ll have a great season overall when the dust settles. But as some point it becomes hard to ignore the evidence in front of you. He’s not the transcendent talent you want him to be.

lol he literally is, though. 

[Soko]

31 minutes ago, AFlaccoSeagulls said:

lol he literally is, though. 

[rich homie]

I honestly, for the life of me can't see how anyone could view Russell Wilson as anywhere near the level of Mahomes, let alone being better than him. 

[Nozizaki]

I love Russell Wilson. He easily the second best QB in the NFL. He never misses time to injuries, takes care of the football, has one of the best deep balls and makes extremely smart decisions about when and how to run the ball.

But Patrick Mahomes is the Lebron James of the NFL. He is revolutionizing how NFL QBs play the game. This dude is having a down this year: 66.9% Completion, 8.2 Y/A, 25 TDs to 1 INT. He isn't a human being.

[AFlaccoSeagulls]

1 hour ago, rich homie said:

I honestly, for the life of me can't see how anyone could view Russell Wilson as anywhere near the level of Mahomes, let alone being better than him. 

yeah it's almost like at this point in time Wilson is going through a major slump while Mahomes is not. Crazy how that works.

[rich homie]

12 minutes ago, AFlaccoSeagulls said:

yeah it's almost like at this point in time Wilson is going through a major slump while Mahomes is not. Crazy how that works.

At what point will Wilson's eight year slump end and he starts producing at the level that Mahomes does regularly?

[AFlaccoSeagulls]

1 minute ago, rich homie said:

At what point will Wilson's eight year slump end and he starts producing at the level that Mahomes does regularly?

Just off the top of my head, their 2019 per-game totals are basically identical sans passing yards. Russell Wilson's per-game stats right now in 2020 are still better than Mahomes', even with his current 3-game slump that's tanked his stats.

Unless you truly do not believe Wilson was playing at a better level than Mahomes for the first like 5-6 weeks of this season, and also last year?

[Archimedes]

6 hours ago, AFlaccoSeagulls said:

Just off the top of my head, their 2019 per-game totals are basically identical sans passing yards. Russell Wilson's per-game stats right now in 2020 are still better than Mahomes', even with his current 3-game slump that's tanked his stats.

Unless you truly do not believe Wilson was playing at a better level than Mahomes for the first like 5-6 weeks of this season, and also last year?

Per game volume stats. I remember in the Wilson vs Luck debates when people would argue for Wilson they would argue efficiency was more important than volume. Are we not doing that anymore? Mahomes had the overall more efficient season last year, in 2018, and is doing so again this year. But a 6 week stretch to start the season this year is supposed to override all that?

[AFlaccoSeagulls]

50 minutes ago, Archimedes said:

Per game volume stats. I remember in the Wilson vs Luck debates when people would argue for Wilson they would argue efficiency was more important than volume. Are we not doing that anymore? Mahomes had the overall more efficient season last year, in 2018, and is doing so again this year. But a 6 week stretch to start the season this year is supposed to override all that?

I don't think that's true.

[Archimedes]

19 minutes ago, AFlaccoSeagulls said:

I don't think that's true.

Your opinion vs reality:

Passer rating:

Mahomes: 105.3

Wilson: 106.3

QBR:

Mahomes: 77.7

Wilson: 71.5

DVOA:

Mahomes: 30.0

Wilson: 24.3

ANY/A:

Mahomes: 8.38

Wilson: 7.42

Looks pretty clear cut to me.

 

Edited November 18, 2020 by Archimedes

[evilflamingo]

14 hours ago, AFlaccoSeagulls said:

Russell Wilson's per-game stats right now in 2020 are still better than Mahomes', even with his current 3-game slump that's tanked his stats.

That's highly debatable as well. Guess it works if you value Wilson's 11 yards and 0.2 total TD advantage enough to make up for Mahomes dwarfing him (no pun intended) in pretty much everything else.   

Wilson: 310 yards, 3.2 TTD and 1.4 turnovers, 2.8 TD/INT ratio,  7.46 ANY/A and 110.5 rating.  

Mahomes: 299 yards, 3 TTD and 0.1 turnovers. 25/1 TD/INT ratio, 8.99 ANY/A and 115.9 rating. 

I also remember hearing that the Greased Weasel is one of the worst in 3rd down efficiency while Mahomes is one of the best. Couldn't find the individual stats but team stats supports it with Chiefs being tied #2 and Seahawks bottom-7. 

[AFlaccoSeagulls]

13 hours ago, Archimedes said:

Your opinion vs reality:

Passer rating:

Mahomes: 105.3

Wilson: 106.3

QBR:

Mahomes: 77.7

Wilson: 71.5

DVOA:

Mahomes: 30.0

Wilson: 24.3

ANY/A:

Mahomes: 8.38

Wilson: 7.42

Looks pretty clear cut to me.

 

oh we're cherry picking stats now? Russell Wilson threw 5 more touchdowns on almost 150 fewer attempts than Mahomes, while throwing the same amount of interceptions in 2019. How's that for efficiency?

Edited November 18, 2020 by AFlaccoSeagulls

[AFlaccoSeagulls]

4 hours ago, evilflamingo said:

That's highly debatable as well. Guess it works if you value Wilson's 11 yards and 0.2 total TD advantage enough to make up for Mahomes dwarfing him (no pun intended) in pretty much everything else.   

Wilson: 310 yards, 3.2 TTD and 1.4 turnovers, 2.8 TD/INT ratio,  7.46 ANY/A and 110.5 rating.  

Mahomes: 299 yards, 3 TTD and 0.1 turnovers. 25/1 TD/INT ratio, 8.99 ANY/A and 115.9 rating. 

I also remember hearing that the Greased Weasel is one of the worst in 3rd down efficiency while Mahomes is one of the best. Couldn't find the individual stats but team stats supports it with Chiefs being tied #2 and Seahawks bottom-7. 

Seattle was 15th last year in 3rd down conversion while KC is 3rd. Seattle's 3rd down offense has tanked this year, for some reason though. I'm also trying to find the "average distance to get a 1st down on 3rd down" stat but I can't seem to find it. IIRC, KC has one of the lowest yards to gain on average, while Seattle has one of the highest in previous years.

[Archimedes]

2 hours ago, AFlaccoSeagulls said:

oh we're cherry picking stats now? Russell Wilson threw 5 more touchdowns on almost 150 fewer attempts than Mahomes, while throwing the same amount of interceptions in 2019. How's that for efficiency?

This post is completely and utterly dripping with irony. I gave you 4 all-encompassing, well-known stats that measure a QB’s value on a per play basis...

And YOU proceeded to cherry pick a few stats, while accusing me of doing so. Every one of the stats I gave you INCLUDE TD efficiency and INT efficiency already. So try again.

Edit.

And I just double checked the interception thing. Wilson and Mahomes had identical interception percentages last year, so you weren’t even right about that particular cherry picked stat.

Edited November 18, 2020 by Archimedes

[Jakuvious]

11 hours ago, AFlaccoSeagulls said:

oh we're cherry picking stats now? Russell Wilson threw 5 more touchdowns on almost 150 fewer attempts than Mahomes, while throwing the same amount of interceptions in 2019. How's that for efficiency?

Either you're reading something very wrong, or something you're looking at is very wrong. Wilson threw more passes last year than Mahomes did. He certainly didn't throw 150 less. Best I can think is you're somehow mixing up Wilson's 2019 stats and his 2020 ones? Because he does have 150 less attempts so far this year than Mahomes had last year, but he also has double the INTs Mahomes had all of last year. So I have no idea what you're talking about here.