2021 NFL Draft Thread

[Thaiphoon]

14 hours ago, e16bball said:

Yeah, I think that’s right. It’s one thing to have a coach tell you what you need to do. It’s another thing to watch a guy like Alex — former #1 pick, 15 years in the NFL, 100 wins as a starter, world’s most inspirational football player — go about his everyday work. To see the amount of work and sacrifice and dedication it takes on a daily basis to get to that level.

You can tune out coaches as being unrealistic or nagging, but when you watch a guy do it himself, by choice — it has to send the message that if you want to get to the level he’s at, you need to match (or exceed) his effort, preparation, commitment, etc. He’s not doing it to try to shape you or develop you, he’s doing it for himself and the team, to win a job or to win ballgames. That speaks volumes I’d imagine. Much like we heard about Kerrigan rubbing off on Chase Young this year, I’d say. 

This. 1,000%

If he wants to come back next year, and we draft a guy like Lance, I have zero issue paying him $24m/year to be the starter who mentors our QBOTF for a year or two. The value there is more than just his on-field performance. You're literally paying him to be the player-coach that can get the younger players to learn lessons that otherwise might not land in their consciousness. 

Like you said. It's one thing to see a guy in shorts and whistle tell you things. And even show you on some of the mechanics as you're doing individual drills. It's a completely different universe to watch the pro go about his work and take notes.

How does he prepare to learn the offense?

How does he take care of himself?

What does he do to tune out everything else that isn't about being the QB?

How does he go about being a professional?

How does he prepare for the next opponent?

What does he know about the next opponent that the coaches don't?

Why does he know these things?

Those are just a few things a QB mentor can help out with. There are more. 

Think for example of a situation where the coach can't see everything. Even on a screen. Even if they replay it a million times. But a QB can see the LB's eyes. He can know that "this guy, when he shades to his left as he's getting ready for the snap, means he's gonna rush." Little nuanced things like that which don't get passed down from coach to player but instead are shared between players.

And all of that, and more, is why if he's healthy and wants to continue playing, you bring him back and pay him the $24m.

As much as I want to see more of Heinecke, we can't just have Allen, Heinecke and Montez/draftee in camp competing for a spot. We're now in "win now" mode again and need a steady(ier) hand under center. One that has played more than just a few seasons in the league.

[turtle28]

Agree with @e16bball & @Thaiphoon 1010% if Alex wants to return he’d be a great mentor and asset to the QB room whether that’s for a young QB we draft or for Heinicke & Kyle Allen too.

[turtle28]

3 hours ago, Thaiphoon said:

Please skip the "hasn't done it at the highest level". 

Haskins, Jamarcus Russell, et al did it "at the highest level" and that was no guarantor of success.

Meanwhile, guys like McNair, et al didn't "do it at the highest level" and seemed to do just fine, amirite?

The biggest issue I have with Lance right now is the paucity of his resume. I love his physical tools. I love his decision making. I love everything about him. He's mobile as hell and that is something that all QBs are gonna need to be able to do in the future. 

But, I do agree that one year of starting does not engender confidence in the pick. 

Which is why you mentor him for a year or two of his rookie deal. I'd much rather invest that time to develop a talent like him while keeping on vet QBs who can win games for us. 

 

No offense but I can have that opinion if I want. Also, McNair proved for years at Alcorn State that he was amazing. Trey Lance hasn’t. He hasn’t proven he’s that type of player and can consistently be that type of player. A lot of that is out of his hands bc of COVID this year but, that doesn’t change the situation. I’m very apprehensive about him as a prospect and part of the reason is he didn’t do it at the highest level.

That’s never going to change for me. I understand you’re an FCS guy and you’re always loving those guys bc you’re tied to those schools and that level but that’s just not me. Now if a guy balls out on that level for years like a Moreland, Chinn etc, I’ll realize that but Lance just hasn’t. He hasn’t proven it to me that he’s anywhere ready to be a pro QB. 

[Thaiphoon]

1 hour ago, turtle28 said:

No offense but I can have that opinion if I want. Also, McNair proved for years at Alcorn State that he was amazing. Trey Lance hasn’t. He hasn’t proven he’s that type of player and can consistently be that type of player. A lot of that is out of his hands bc of COVID this year but, that doesn’t change the situation. I’m very apprehensive about him as a prospect and part of the reason is he didn’t do it at the highest level.

That’s never going to change for me. I understand you’re an FCS guy and you’re always loving those guys bc you’re tied to those schools and that level but that’s just not me. Now if a guy balls out on that level for years like a Moreland, Chinn etc, I’ll realize that but Lance just hasn’t. He hasn’t proven it to me that he’s anywhere ready to be a pro QB. 

You just proved my point @turtle28 . To your credit, in your response, you're focused on production over years, not actually just whether the player played at FBS (or FCS). We're actually agreeing here whether you think so or not.

My point isn't about the "highest level" canard (which is what every FBS-biased person trots out to justify skipping over a player they never watched simply because they think FCS is D2 - which you confused at one point in the last few years). 

My point is can the player do it consistently? The "highest level" argument is just BS to me. For example -> Guys are wide open in FBS and can make QBs look better than they are. Same for FCS. There are DBs and LBs that aren't going to be playing on Sunday once college is over in both FBS and FCS. This makes it hard to evaluate a QB in both FBS AND FCS. 

Which is why I want to see the production over years (and you so astutely pointed out in your rebuttal that actually agreed with me). That is true no matter which part of D1 football they play (the one with 85 scholarship limit or the one with 63 scholarship limit). 

[turtle28]

2 hours ago, Thaiphoon said:

You just proved my point @turtle28 . To your credit, in your response, you're focused on production over years, not actually just whether the player played at FBS (or FCS). We're actually agreeing here whether you think so or not.

My point isn't about the "highest level" canard (which is what every FBS-biased person trots out to justify skipping over a player they never watched simply because they think FCS is D2 - which you confused at one point in the last few years). 

My point is can the player do it consistently? The "highest level" argument is just BS to me. For example -> Guys are wide open in FBS and can make QBs look better than they are. Same for FCS. There are DBs and LBs that aren't going to be playing on Sunday once college is over in both FBS and FCS. This makes it hard to evaluate a QB in both FBS AND FCS. 

Which is why I want to see the production over years (and you so astutely pointed out in your rebuttal that actually agreed with me). That is true no matter which part of D1 football they play (the one with 85 scholarship limit or the one with 63 scholarship limit). 

Agreed, as I was writing my response I kind of realized I was agreeing with a lot of your points! 😂 

[ripsean21]

Idk how many more games of this kid I can watch and just not say that Kellen Mond is going to get a scouting dept a boost because this guy has serious tools his arm is amazing he can throw from the weirdest positions and fling it. Now he needs to choke some throws back but man this guy is a special player. I know he’s not up there with the top guys but ive seen way to many amazing things from this guy to not say this guy doesn’t have everything you want hes going to be a special player. He will need work but he’s going to be the next gem and I hope like heck it’s us that take him

[turtle28]

31 minutes ago, ripsean21 said:

Idk how many more games of this kid I can watch and just not say that Kellen Mond is going to get a scouting dept a boost because this guy has serious tools his arm is amazing he can throw from the weirdest positions and fling it. Now he needs to choke some throws back but man this guy is a special player. I know he’s not up there with the top guys but ive seen way to many amazing things from this guy to not say this guy doesn’t have everything you want hes going to be a special player. He will need work but he’s going to be the next gem and I hope like heck it’s us that take him

Reminds me of Kapernick 

[ripsean21]

1 hour ago, turtle28 said:

Reminds me of Kapernick 

Dude this guys arm and anticipation are much better. This guy can literally roll left like he’s left handed and quickly turn just his upper body and quick twitch it with accuracy. He’s a much better prospect as a passer this guys seriously being missed by a lot of people!!! He is built and moves similar but as a actual passer this guy has much more to work with upstairs and just places the ball much better

[Thaiphoon]

3 hours ago, turtle28 said:

Agreed, as I was writing my response I kind of realized I was agreeing with a lot of your points! 😂 

No worries man.

[Thaiphoon]

2 hours ago, ripsean21 said:

Idk how many more games of this kid I can watch and just not say that Kellen Mond is going to get a scouting dept a boost because this guy has serious tools his arm is amazing he can throw from the weirdest positions and fling it. Now he needs to choke some throws back but man this guy is a special player. I know he’s not up there with the top guys but ive seen way to many amazing things from this guy to not say this guy doesn’t have everything you want hes going to be a special player. He will need work but he’s going to be the next gem and I hope like heck it’s us that take him

Yeah. We absolutely would need a Fitz or Smith to be out starter next year if we took him. But yeah, I do like what I see, even if it's a bit raw.

[turtle28]

42 minutes ago, Thaiphoon said:

Yeah. We absolutely would need a Fitz or Smith to be out starter next year if we took him. But yeah, I do like what I see, even if it's a bit raw.

Not sure why we couldn’t role w/ Heinicke, Allen and a rookie to develop. It would accomplish the same thing.

[Thaiphoon]

21 minutes ago, turtle28 said:

Not sure why we couldn’t role w/ Heinicke, Allen and a rookie to develop. It would accomplish the same thing.

We just discussed earlier why we'd want Alex back to help develop the young QBs. What changed?

[ripsean21]

12 hours ago, Thaiphoon said:

Yeah. We absolutely would need a Fitz or Smith to be out starter next year if we took him. But yeah, I do like what I see, even if it's a bit raw.

Honestly I have no problem getting a guy their comfortable with. But I think when this guy gets in camp and competes he’s going to be the next Dak, Russ. Those guys weren’t expected to win their jobs. But I think this guy on our team could win the job. He’s a gamer. Def raw. But man people will eat me up for saying this but I like him here more then I’d like Zach Wilson so take it for what that is but the value of Monds KC where he will more then likely go I believe the risk is about equal with their games but throws and mistakes I see Zach make throughout the game Mond doesn’t and he’s got more zip. He needs to dial some passes back but the thing is when I look at this class he’s the guy I have that feeling about. 
 

when I say all this like I just think he has that natural reflex when things break down that lead to amazing things more often then not. When those moments show up for Zach I’m constantly like NOOOO!!! I think Mond is the gem of this class

Edited January 17, 2021 by ripsean21

[aceinthehouse]

Love Alex, but the dude needs to retire.

Unfortunately, he may not think this.

We we're lucky to find out what this kid Taylor Heinicke can do. But do we put all our eggs in his basket with his slight of frame, injury history & lack of experience?

The answer is a resounding NO. But you do have to keep this guy here, somehow.

We need to sign this dude long term now, before he blows up like Joe Montana & we can't afford him.

But we also need to have a Plan B, in case he gets hurt in a game, or somehow becomes a 1 hit wonder which I don't think he is.

What that Plan B is, is the toughest call imo.

Do you draft a QB in the 1st or 2nd Rd? If you do that, you run the risk of not getting enough weapons on Offense.

Do you just roll with Taylor & surround him with weapons? You do that & Taylor gets hurt, then the season is over cause Kyle Allen or Montez aren't going to save the day like Taylor I don't believe.

Or...do you sign a vet that is comfortable being the backup here & if called upon? Is good enough to keep the ship afloat while Taylor recovers from injury or poor play. While still being able to use draft resources & FA to make the Offense good with weapons?

I believe #3 is the smartest, safest & best way to secure the QB position while not alienating Taylor as our QB.

It allows us to load up the offense with weapons, while not breaking the bank with any QB on the roster.

But it also narrows the field of who we can bring in & who would be ok being the backup or starter.

Fitzmagic would be  a good possibility, but does he got what we want to scheme wise like his mobility? Probably not.

Cam Newton fits the scheme, but would he be ok on the bench? Probably not.

So that is where our dilemma is? Finding a guy with Taylor's mobility, but being ok riding the pine as Taylor starts. 

And for you Kyle Allen fans...

Sorry, this dude is not the answer neither.

[turtle28]

15 hours ago, Thaiphoon said:

We just discussed earlier why we'd want Alex back to help develop the young QBs. What changed?

Well I understand the value of having Smith but I don’t think it’s “needed” necessarily. 
 

I want Heinicke back with his chance, I think he’s earned that & I think they’re going to keep Kyle Allen. It just seems with happening it’s getting crowded in the QB room.