jrry32 Posted December 30, 2020 Share Posted December 30, 2020 (edited) 15 minutes ago, BayRaider said: There are absolutely upmost 100% professionals though that do not want co-workers as friends and still perform very highly. What the movie should of done is just paint Bo as some type of attitude problem. I mean, that’s kind of what they were doing, but using the example of teammates don’t attend his birthday parties is pretty lame and lazy writing, that makes zero sense. I think the point of it was that it was supposed to be information that was hard to find that the average person would understand. Probably should have done something the program covered up and buried. Would have been more realistic. But yeah, it was a bit silly. (Still, it does somewhat show how much these guys overthink everything.) 30 minutes ago, pwny said: Ehh. I think it was an attempt to paint the player as unlikable and not a true leader. The Jaguars seeded a story just like that to the media about Jalen Ramsey when he was traded to try to change the narrative around it, saying that no one in the locker room viewed him as a friend and that his presence in the locker room was indifferent at best. Speaking of Ramsey, he was still a bit frustrating when he was trying to get paid, but he has been a consummate professional since we paid him and seems to be genuinely liked by the guys. Edited December 30, 2020 by jrry32 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pwny Posted December 30, 2020 Share Posted December 30, 2020 15 minutes ago, BayRaider said: There are absolutely upmost 100% professionals though that do not want co-workers as friends and still perform very highly. Sure. But they asked him about it, and instead of saying “I like to keep my work separate from my personal life,” he lied about it. Then he also lied about the $100 in the playbook. They were showing some subtle situations where he appeared unlikable and untrustworthy, but not stuff that was so egregious that it just completely killed his value as the potential #1 pick the way a scandal or an easy to find attitude issue would. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BayRaider Posted December 30, 2020 Share Posted December 30, 2020 Just now, pwny said: Sure. But they asked him about it, and instead of saying “I like to keep my work separate from my personal life,” he lied about it. Then he also lied about the $100 in the playbook. They were showing some subtle situations where he appeared unlikable and untrustworthy, but not stuff that was so egregious that it just completely killed his value as the potential #1 pick the way a scandal or an easy to find attitude issue would. We’re not talking about how they tried to make sense of it. The fact that they were investigating “friends did not attend birthday parties” was ludicrous to begin with. There are many many other ways they could of made his leadership and/or character look suspect. It was lazy writing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pwny Posted December 30, 2020 Share Posted December 30, 2020 4 minutes ago, jrry32 said: Speaking of Ramsey, he was still a bit frustrating when he was trying to get paid, but he has been a consummate professional since we paid him and seems to be genuinely liked by the guys. He’s going to forever be one of the guys that uses social media and other things to put pressure on his team to do what he wants, and I think that’s going to become more of the norm with guys as they realize how easily it is to create a story out of literally nothing and get teams to take things more seriously. But he’s always been a good teammate and well liked by his teammate. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pwny Posted December 30, 2020 Share Posted December 30, 2020 4 minutes ago, BayRaider said: We’re not talking about how they tried to make sense of it. The fact that they were investigating “friends did not attend birthday parties” was ludicrous to begin with. There are many many other ways they could of made his leadership and/or character look suspect. It was lazy writing. He was a quarterback. His job is to be a leader and supposed to be the face of a team and the guy who brings everyone together. Why no one wants to spend time in social situations with the guy who is supposed to be a leader is certainly a question to ask. It’s a question that can have a very easy answer that makes everything go away, but it’s still a question. And again, the Jaguars literally used this exact same type of thing to turn fans against Jalen Ramsey, so it’s quite obviously something that a team would be discussing and ask a question about. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BayRaider Posted December 30, 2020 Share Posted December 30, 2020 3 minutes ago, pwny said: He was a quarterback. His job is to be a leader and supposed to be the face of a team and the guy who brings everyone together. Why no one wants to spend time in social situations with the guy who is supposed to be a leader is certainly a question to ask. It’s a question that can have a very easy answer that makes everything go away, but it’s still a question. And again, the Jaguars literally used this exact same type of thing to turn fans against Jalen Ramsey, so it’s quite obviously something that a team would be discussing and ask a question about. So a QB has to hang out with his teammates outside of work? I mean I think a dinner with your OL every now and then is pretty standard, but having social situations outside of work is NOT required to be a good leader, and has nothing to do with being a good leader. You can be plenty social at work, get to know all your teammates at work extremely well while at work, and be a great leader at work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Awsi Dooger Posted December 30, 2020 Share Posted December 30, 2020 On 12/28/2020 at 3:26 PM, BayRaider said: This is a massive over reaction. Dolphins have a Bottom 5 WR corps, and Tua is a rookie. Tua has had two really bad games, but any Dolphin fan will tell you he’s been overall better than Fitzpatrick. Fitz being good this year is the biggest misconception in the world. Fitzpatrick looks good in relief because teams prepared for Tua. Dolphins won early in the season because of mostly defense, and also their run game. Dolphins likely select a WR with their first pick. As a Dolphins fan I agree with plenty of this. But I would still take Zach Wilson if somehow available to Miami. It's just like analytics. In fact, the analytics guys will begin to weigh in on this type of thing and not merely game strategy. Conventional wisdom of piecing together a team bit by bit is flawed compared to the immense value of having two early swings instead of one at exponentially the most valuable position. There is plenty of room to evaluate both of them, as the situation with Tua and Fitzpatrick has demonstrated. Nobody is exactly confused regarding the varied skill sets of each one. I've long believed the NFL is overly stale in this situation, taking a guy early and announcing he's the franchise quarterback and somehow immune from competition for X number of years. Are the Giants really going to be content with Daniel Jones and his annual 6.5 YPA? Back in the swashbuckling AFL the Jets made Namath the first pick and Notre Dame Heisman Trophy winning quarterback John Huarte the 11th pick of the same draft. Joe Thomas saved the early Dolphins franchise and set up the early '70s glory years by wisely giving up on high first round quarterback Rick Norton after only one season to draft Bob Griese very high in the first round the following year. If Thomas doesn't make that move then Don Shula probably never leaves Baltimore for the Dolphins and NFL history is rewritten. Shula always said having a sharp talented young quarterback already on the roster was key to his decision. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BayRaider Posted December 30, 2020 Share Posted December 30, 2020 Personally I think Wilson has already surpassed Fields as the "consensus" #2 QB. These things just take 3-4 weeks to actually be realized, if that makes any sense. Example, Mahomes clearly over took Wilson as the #1 MVP choice after Week 9, but it didn't reflect in MVP Betting Odds or realized by the Media until after Week 12, even though odds are updated weekly. Rodgers clearly over took Mahomes as the #1 MVP choice after Week 14, but it didn't reflect in MVP Betting Odds or realized by the Media until after Week 16, even though odds are updated weekly. Give it another 3-4 weeks, and I think you'll see the Media and Draft Rankings all universally start to move Wilson #2. Fields can ascend back to #2 with a great game, and close loss to Clemson. But if he plays bad, stick a fork in him as getting the #2 spot back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pwny Posted December 30, 2020 Share Posted December 30, 2020 2 minutes ago, BayRaider said: So a QB has to hang out with his teammates outside of work? I mean I think a dinner with your OL every now and then is pretty standard, but having social situations outside of work is NOT required to be a good leader, and has nothing to do with being a good leader. You can be plenty social at work, get to know all your teammates at work extremely well while at work, and be a great leader at work. He doesn’t *have to*. But if he doesn’t, it’s a question that’s going to be asked about why he’s not close with any of his teammates. 60 guys he spends every day with, goes on read trips with, spends nights in hotels with, and not one close friend. That’s an oddity. It doesn’t mean that it strikes a player off your draft board immediately, but it’s only of eighty you ask when you get an interview with the guy. And then if he lies about it, it becomes a bigger thing. And it’s minor enough that even when he lies about it, it still isn’t completely obvious that it should strike it off the board or not. If it was something like a scandal or an attitude problem, it becomes obvious to the audience that he isn’t the player to take. When it’s something like a question of whether or not his teammates like him and you don’t have a clear cut answer, then the movie is able to give some tension over whether or not the minor things they’re finding was enough to forgo drafting him. The public cares about the appearances of closeness between teammates, as evidenced by the fact that Jacksonville lied about it to turn their fans against a player they wanted to ship out, so the unsuredness over the situation drove a quandary over what actually would happen. This is a multi-million dollar decision that is the most important decision any GM will ever make, and a mistake here will get any GM fired and likely to never have a chance to be a GM ever again. You really think they wouldn’t ask every question even over minor things before making the biggest decision of their careers? Gene Smith had a rule that any player he drafted had to be engaged or married. Does that mean that no player can make it to the NFL without being married? No. But it’s one of those examples of the character concerns that GMs have over minor stuff. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BayRaider Posted December 30, 2020 Share Posted December 30, 2020 (edited) 54 minutes ago, pwny said: He doesn’t *have to*. But if he doesn’t, it’s a question that’s going to be asked about why he’s not close with any of his teammates. 60 guys he spends every day with, goes on read trips with, spends nights in hotels with, and not one close friend. That’s an oddity. It doesn’t mean that it strikes a player off your draft board immediately, but it’s only of eighty you ask when you get an interview with the guy. And then if he lies about it, it becomes a bigger thing. And it’s minor enough that even when he lies about it, it still isn’t completely obvious that it should strike it off the board or not. If it was something like a scandal or an attitude problem, it becomes obvious to the audience that he isn’t the player to take. When it’s something like a question of whether or not his teammates like him and you don’t have a clear cut answer, then the movie is able to give some tension over whether or not the minor things they’re finding was enough to forgo drafting him. The public cares about the appearances of closeness between teammates, as evidenced by the fact that Jacksonville lied about it to turn their fans against a player they wanted to ship out, so the unsuredness over the situation drove a quandary over what actually would happen. This is a multi-million dollar decision that is the most important decision any GM will ever make, and a mistake here will get any GM fired and likely to never have a chance to be a GM ever again. You really think they wouldn’t ask every question even over minor things before making the biggest decision of their careers? Gene Smith had a rule that any player he drafted had to be engaged or married. Does that mean that no player can make it to the NFL without being married? No. But it’s one of those examples of the character concerns that GMs have over minor stuff. I'm sorry but it wouldn't strike me as odd at all if he never hung out with his co-workers. Personal life and work life are meant to be separated. Now, would it strike me odd if he has never even has some dinners every now and then with his teammates? Sure. But not regularly hanging out with co-workers/teammates would not be a red flag in the slightest to me. That's just a person that keeps personal/private life separate. You can develop bonds with people at work as well. Edited December 30, 2020 by BayRaider Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrry32 Posted December 31, 2020 Share Posted December 31, 2020 49 minutes ago, BayRaider said: I'm sorry but it wouldn't strike me as odd at all if he never hung out with his co-workers. Personal life and work life are meant to be separated. Now, would it strike me odd if he has never even has some dinners every now and then with his teammates? Sure. But not regularly hanging out with co-workers/teammates would not be a red flag in the slightest to me. That's just a person that keeps personal/private life separate. You can develop bonds with people at work as well. This isn't a typical job, and it would strike me as very odd. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beekay414 Posted December 31, 2020 Share Posted December 31, 2020 Trask's NFL arm issues on display tonight. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-Hope- Posted December 31, 2020 Share Posted December 31, 2020 trask is uhhhh costing himself some money tonight lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lod01 Posted December 31, 2020 Share Posted December 31, 2020 On 12/29/2020 at 9:48 AM, tyler735 said: Sure a guy like Newton is not doing great, he also subjects himself to a ton of unnecessary hits. Wilson on the other hand that doesn't have quite as many rushing attempts/yards (but not that far off) has been just fine in that regard. As long as guys like Fields are smart when running, it shouldn't be that big of an issue. If they try to use their body as battering ram for 10 years it will catch up with them. In regards to the 15-20 year comment, how many QB's can actually play that long? I'd gladly take a 5-10 year peak if that QB was dominant and was able to help lead my team to some deep playoff runs. That is surely worth a 1st round pick. That said, I'm not really sold on Fields and Lance being those types of impact players Outside of Flacco (won by Balt. D) and Nick Foles, the ones that win SBs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lod01 Posted December 31, 2020 Share Posted December 31, 2020 On 12/29/2020 at 11:14 AM, JetsandI said: I don't remember calling Fields as a running qb. He is basically better all around than Dwayne Haskins but he is no JT Barrett. when he gets to the NFL, he will run because his WRs will not be wide open. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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