Giant Tidbits: Random team discussion & rumors

[minutemancl]

36 minutes ago, Acgott said:

He was cleared for contact, hasn’t practiced in 3 weeks and we wouldn’t know how he could take a hit. Cleared for contact, doesn’t mean cleared for game.

I don't think that is true. By all accounts, and from Daboll and Jones themselves, that was the last and only hurdle to clear before being able to play. DJ was the scout team QB every week while he was out. He was practicing and throwing. The only thing keeping him from playing was not being cleared for contact.

[Shockwave]

1 hour ago, Acgott said:

He was cleared for contact, hasn’t practiced in 3 weeks and we wouldn’t know how he could take a hit. Cleared for contact, doesn’t mean cleared for game.

During the broadcast they noted Jones had received the second most reps behind Tyrod in practice all week and Devito had basically seen very little (as mind numbing as that is)

[Acgott]

1 hour ago, minutemancl said:

I don't think that is true. By all accounts, and from Daboll and Jones themselves, that was the last and only hurdle to clear before being able to play. DJ was the scout team QB every week while he was out. He was practicing and throwing. The only thing keeping him from playing was not being cleared for contact.

I think of it like the concussion protocol. The last step there is practicing with contact. Make sure he can make it through a full practice with no setbacks. The bigger issue is not being able to throw with our practice squad QB. That’s much bigger malpractice to me.

[minutemancl]

8 minutes ago, Acgott said:

I think of it like the concussion protocol. The last step there is practicing with contact. Make sure he can make it through a full practice with no setbacks. The bigger issue is not being able to throw with our practice squad QB. That’s much bigger malpractice to me.

Dabs made it sound in his pressers during the week that once he was cleared, he could go. He had 'played a lot of ball' so wouldn't need to make any sort of progress after being cleared. He also said in the video I posted that nobody told him he was cleared Sunday morning (although it wouldn't make a difference since he was already ruled out), but he seemed very pissed about not knowing beforehand. I'm leaning now towards the doctors somehow screwing up communication with Dabs that led to DJ being ruled out on Friday before he was tested again. Hell, DJ was questionable until inactives were due the previous week against Washington. Why not do that again?

Obviously that was a problem as well. I have no idea what Dabs and Kafka were thinking calling plays in OT. I was fine with the approach they took after Devito came in in regulation. It very nearly worked. But the play calls in OT were just conceding the game. They should have just left after the coin toss.

The most egregious coaching mistakes from Sunday were receiving instead of kicking in OT after winning the coin toss, not going for it on 4th down and 1 and instead kicking a field goal at the end of regulation, and the play calling in OT. Dabs has been coaching scared all season. I saw a stat yesterday that said the Giants lead the league in situations where they choose to kick a field goal/punt instead of going for it on 4th down where the analytics say going for it gives you a 1% more, or better, chance of winning. That's coaching scared.

[Acgott]

8 minutes ago, minutemancl said:

Dabs made it sound in his pressers during the week that once he was cleared, he could go. He had 'played a lot of ball' so wouldn't need to make any sort of progress after being cleared. He also said in the video I posted that nobody told him he was cleared Sunday morning (although it wouldn't make a difference since he was already ruled out), but he seemed very pissed about not knowing beforehand. I'm leaning now towards the doctors somehow screwing up communication with Dabs that led to DJ being ruled out on Friday before he was tested again. Hell, DJ was questionable until inactives were due the previous week against Washington. Why not do that again?

I’m just going off of this, but I don’t trust Daboll with injury news. Either way, the cautious approach with a neck injury is the right approach. This isn’t a hamstring.

https://x.com/art_stapleton/status/1719001891034505261?s=61&t=tus03feDbRZ35nlWoHPPOA

[minutemancl]

With the team playing as badly as they have and all the injuries mounting, I think it is important to keep perspective overall and remember that we are in year 2 of a total rebuild.

That said, I am writing off this year and looking at 2024. We aren't going to compete this year. We are set up really nicely for 2024 though. Almost all of our studs are all locked up and we are going to have about $50 million in cap space with really only 3 in house free agents worth resigning, and they play 3 of the lowest paid positions (RB, OG, S in Saquon, Bredeson, and McKinney).

The 2024 FA class isn't looking great right now overall, but hopefully we can find upgrades at important positions, namely on the OL. We have the young guys already, but we seem to have trouble developing them. I'm comfortable at LT and C, but that's it. Vaitai is a good OL with tons of versatility. I would sign him to play RT and let Ezeudu, Neal, and Bredeson battle it out for the 2 guard spots. You can't go into 2024 with Neal penciled in at RT. Ideally, we sign another established OL to play one of the guard spots and let those 3 battle for 1 spot. We've really got to fix the OL, and hoping and praying on these young guys has not worked out.

I think trading Azeez and seeing if we could get anything for him would be worthwhile. Aaron Robinson is a certain cut, as is Mark Glowinski. Cutting Glo saves $5 million.

In the draft, I think you have to look at taking a QB if you have a top-5 pick. Unless we are picking 1st, Caleb Williams won't be there, so start looking at Drake Maye, Shedeur Sanders, Michael Penix, JJ McCarthy and Bo Nix. If we have our choice at QB outside of Williams, I'd think Maye would be the pick. After him, I like JJ McCarthy and Shedeur Sanders. McCarthy is super talented and takes care of the ball but is a bit slender in frame. Sanders is fantastic under pressure but can hold the ball too long at times. Roll into 2024 with DJ starting and the rook backing him up until the new guy can take over in 2025.

[Go_Giants]

4 hours ago, minutemancl said:

In the draft, I think you have to look at taking a QB if you have a top-5 pick.

Sadly with DJ playing and us not selling off veteran players for cheap (like Adoree) I can see us winning 3 - 4 more games which would take us out of the top 5, hopefully, we can stay in the top 10 somehow.

[minutemancl]

2 hours ago, Go_Giants said:

Sadly with DJ playing and us not selling off veteran players for cheap (like Adoree) I can see us winning 3 - 4 more games which would take us out of the top 5, hopefully, we can stay in the top 10 somehow.

I agree. I think we win against the Raiders, Packers, Commanders, and at least 1 of Patriots/Rams/Saints. We will finish with between 5 and 8 wins. We obviously won't have a top 5 pick if we finish 8-9, but there is a pretty decent chance if we finish 5-12. 

[Shockwave]

Yep as many years as I have been suffering through watching this team one thing I've never seen them do is intentionally tank a season. I don't think upper management would allow it. 

[minutemancl]

The 2nd we got in the Leo trade does give us more ammunition if we need to move up for a QB, potentially from inside the top-10 to inside the top-5.

The QBs I like that aren't Williams/Maye are JJ McCarthy and Shedeur Sanders. Right now, the consensus board seems to have them more in that late 1st-early 2nd area. They could potentially be available at our first round pick even if we don't have a super high draft position.

Is everyone/anyone else is agreement that we need to now spend money on OL instead of drafting them? We've drafted JMS, Neal, Ezeudu, McKethan, AT, Peart, and Lemieux across the last 4 drafts. 5 of those guys were day 1 or day 2 picks. That is is a ton of capital. We need to start proving we can develop these guys now. We know AT is a stud, and JMS is having a solid rookie year, and Ezeudu maybe has shown some potential, but that's it. We need some proven help there. 

[Go_Giants]

6 hours ago, minutemancl said:

Is everyone/anyone else is agreement that we need to now spend money on OL instead of drafting them? We've drafted JMS, Neal, Ezeudu, McKethan, AT, Peart, and Lemieux across the last 4 drafts. 5 of those guys were day 1 or day 2 picks

I believe we should do a combination of both and of course fire Bobby Johnson. I am not giving up on drafting to fix the o-line, outside of JMS everyone else that was drafted on your list was with Gettleman scouts, including Neal, when Shane first got here he had to use many of Gettleman people for his first draft. I am also not counting Peart as a part of that list, he is 3rd Comp pick making him much closer to 4th round talent than 3rd.

First, in the off-season we need to fire Bobby Johnson.  Tyre Phillips praised his 6 weeks with the Eagles and what he learned. He is outplaying Neal at this point. I believe it is clear Bobby Johnson does not know how to develop his players. Mara needs to throw money at one of those offensive line guru coaches to coach up this o-line.

Then we need to get one good free agent o-lineman and spend draft capital on another. Put those two with AT and JMS then hopefully our improved o-line coach can coach up Neal or Ezeudu to give us a quality o-line.

[minutemancl]

8 minutes ago, Go_Giants said:

I believe we should do a combination of both and of course fire Bobby Johnson. I am not giving up on drafting to fix the o-line, outside of JMS everyone else that was drafted on your list was with Gettleman scouts, including Neal, when Shane first got here he had to use many of Gettleman people for his first draft. I am also not counting Peart as a part of that list, he is 3rd Comp pick making him much closer to 4th round talent than 3rd.

First, in the off-season we need to fire Bobby Johnson.  Tyre Phillips praised his 6 weeks with the Eagles and what he learned. He is outplaying Neal at this point. I believe it is clear Bobby Johnson does not know how to develop his players. Mara needs to throw money at one of those offensive line guru coaches to coach up this o-line.

Then we need to get one good free agent o-lineman and spend draft capital on another. Put those two with AT and JMS then hopefully our improved o-line coach can coach up Neal or Ezeudu to give us a quality o-line.

I hate to say it, but the development of our OL lies more at Daboll's feet than Bobby Johnson's. Bobby is just coaching the OL as Daboll wants them to be coached. If we want our OL to develop, Daboll needs to let go of control a little bit and hire Munchak. Just firing Bobby Johnson won't do anything. 

[minutemancl]

In a lost season, it's important to look at the positives:

• Dexy is maintaining his elite play and has an argument for best interior defender in the entire NFL
• Thibs is coming into his own and will more than likely reach double digit sacks this year, and that is despite his incredibly slow start
• Rookies Banks, JMS, and Hyatt, despite periodic rookie struggles from all 3, look like really good picks and building blocks for the future
• The Waller trade showed promising early returns; he was 2nd in the NFL amongst TEs in basically every receiving category before losing DJ and getting hurt
• Bobby Okereke is great and looks like a great free agent signing
• The development of Micah McFadden has been honestly incredible. Between he and Okereke, we went from having 0 LBs to having an actually solid, trending up, duo
• Jason Pinnock has been our best safety and looks like another hit pickup from Schoen. He's only in his 3rd season playing safety after converting from corner and has a great completion percentage against and some really nice splash plays against both the run and pass. 

[Acgott]

 

[GMENNATION]

On 11/7/2023 at 11:00 AM, minutemancl said:

In a lost season, it's important to look at the positives:

• Dexy is maintaining his elite play and has an argument for best interior defender in the entire NFL
• Thibs is coming into his own and will more than likely reach double digit sacks this year, and that is despite his incredibly slow start
• Rookies Banks, JMS, and Hyatt, despite periodic rookie struggles from all 3, look like really good picks and building blocks for the future
• The Waller trade showed promising early returns; he was 2nd in the NFL amongst TEs in basically every receiving category before losing DJ and getting hurt
• Bobby Okereke is great and looks like a great free agent signing
• The development of Micah McFadden has been honestly incredible. Between he and Okereke, we went from having 0 LBs to having an actually solid, trending up, duo
• Jason Pinnock has been our best safety and looks like another hit pickup from Schoen. He's only in his 3rd season playing safety after converting from corner and has a great completion percentage against and some really nice splash plays against both the run and pass. 

This is an overstatement. Banks has been very promising and looks like a good pick. He has not been lock-down enough to treat him as CB1 going into next season but he has shown that he may be able to get there and even if he doesn't, he is a very good CB2. JMS has missed significant time and has shown just as much good as bad. I don't see how you have any different opinion of him as when we drafted him. Not saying I'm down on him but to say really good pick is too complimentary at this stage. Hyatt is the most overhyped. Again, big play ability? Absolutely. But we're over halfway through the season and he hasn't shown any progression. He has 2-3 games work of stats in 10 games. Meanwhile, Tank Dell, Josh Downs and Puka Nacua all have significantly better production. You can argue this is from QB play, etc but you also can't say he's definitely a good draft pick.

The other points I definitely agree with. The defense is not far off from being really, really good. Need another EDGE, CB and S and then obviously depth but Dexy, Thibs, Okereke, McFadden in a lesser role, Banks and Pinnock as the 2nd safety is a really nice core.