Lion's Need GM and HC?

[TL-TwoWinsAway]

An article was released today on mlive.com that pointed out how the Lions fielding only 10 players on three different occasions over the last two weeks led to opposing team's scoring 14 points. Those plays were a Colts' 2 point conversion, a Colts' rushing touchdown and Dalvin Cook's 70 yard TD run. That's the second element (the first being the score this year) that makes me think this coaching staff needs to be replaced. It's completely unacceptable, it's embarrassing, and there's absolutely no excuse for such terrible coaching.

[diehardlionfan]

1 hour ago, TL-TwoWinsAway said:

An article was released today on mlive.com that pointed out how the Lions fielding only 10 players on three different occasions over the last two weeks led to opposing team's scoring 14 points. Those plays were a Colts' 2 point conversion, a Colts' rushing touchdown and Dalvin Cook's 70 yard TD run. That's the second element (the first being the score this year) that makes me think this coaching staff needs to be replaced. It's completely unacceptable, it's embarrassing, and there's absolutely no excuse for such terrible coaching.

The only coaches that seem to be doing a good job are special teams and oline.

Ive been very frustrated by the Lions. So, I sent them an email today summing up my 55+ years of frustration. It won’t accomplish anything but it certainly felt good.

[SimbaWho]

Omar Khan would be a grand slam hire for GM. He brings a level of credibility that probably hasn't ever really been around this team in my life time... (1988-now).

I personally don't think he'd take the job. Lol. He's young, 43 or so, the team he hires with he'll likely be a lifer' for. (IMO). I wouldn't doubt his long-term goal is to slide into the Steelers GM role or as Steelers team President. At 43 or 44 I forget now, but he's been in football since like 2000 or so. Not many people are hired straight outta college in administrative roles. 

If he was still a kid, maybe he is to some... I think the word "prodigy" would be thrown around with this guy. He's the most known, unknown guy in the league I think right now. Might be more coveted than Eric DeCosta was of the Ravens. 

Edited November 11, 2020 by SimbaWho

[diehardlionfan]

2 hours ago, SimbaWho said:

Omar Khan would be a grand slam hire for GM. He brings a level of credibility that probably hasn't ever really been around this team in my life time... (1988-now).

I personally don't think he'd take the job. Lol. He's young, 43 or so, the team he hires with he'll likely be a lifer' for. (IMO). I wouldn't doubt his long-term goal is to slide into the Steelers GM role or as Steelers team President. At 43 or 44 I forget now, but he's been in football since like 2000 or so. Not many people are hired straight outta college in administrative roles. 

If he was still a kid, maybe he is to some... I think the word "prodigy" would be thrown around with this guy. He's the most known, unknown guy in the league I think right now. Might be more coveted than Eric DeCosta was of the Ravens. 

I agree with most of this except reports indicate Brandon Hunt is the favourite to replace Colbert. 

[Nnivolcm]

17 hours ago, TL-TwoWinsAway said:

Other than "fans complaining a lot" (which the fans have done forever), why would they sell?

Altruism?

[diehardlionfan]

3 hours ago, diehardlionfan said:

I agree with most of this except reports indicate Brandon Hunt is the favourite to replace Colbert. 

The Lions have been the major source if wealth for the Ford family. A 6 million investment now worth over 2 Billion. The only way they sell is if they can shelter the profit and create a family trust. Personally the only way I see them selling is if there are tax issues. 

[TL-TwoWinsAway]

1 hour ago, Nnivolcm said:

Altruism?

This whole "wealthy people should make poor business and financial decisions to make me happy" rationale is crazy to me. (Ignoring the fact that they do quite a bit for the community, something that a perspective buyer may not do.)

Replacing things doesn't necessarily fix things. The owners aren't the problem.

Edited November 11, 2020 by TL-TwoWinsAway

[Sllim Pickens]

36 minutes ago, TL-TwoWinsAway said:

Replacing things doesn't necessarily fix things. The owners aren't the problem.

I disagree with this.  Owners attitudes and who they put in situations can easily dictate a winning culture.  For example, Robert Kraft wanted to win, and provided resources to do so.  Mark Cuban turned the Mavs from laughing stock into NBA champion.  Ballmer took the worst franchise in the history of sports and although they havent won, have been contenders and regulars in the playoffs since he bought the team.  Baseball is different because there is no cap but having an owner who not only wants to win but demands it is how championships are won.  The Fords are not football fans, they are business people and if the money is there, they don't really seem to care if they lose.  I am sure they want to win, but they are not setting a tone at the top that demands it.  They hired a person with absolutely zero football experience to be president of the team, they let mediocrity remain far too long and leads to us going further down without ever getting to the top.  

That being said, i don't blame them for not selling, I just wish they would truly care about the team and make them a priority rather than the hobby they appear to be. 

[Superduperman]

1 hour ago, diehardlionfan said:

The Lions have been the major source if wealth for the Ford family. A 6 million investment now worth over 2 Billion. The only way they sell is if they can shelter the profit and create a family trust. Personally the only way I see them selling is if there are tax issues. 

This is where people come close to understanding the Ford family’s rationale in running the Lions, but don’t quite get there.

After observing this team for 45 years, and rooting for them for 30, and racking my brain like we all do why they never succeed, I figured it out. I solved the riddle of the Lions.

I don’t have time to write out my full thoughts on this, because I’d have to write a long-form essay which you don’t all want to read. I may do it someday, but I’m convinced I have ironclad reasoning.

Because I can’t lay it all out, some of you might scoff at this, especially one certain Lions apologist in this thread. It sounds kind of far fetched because it’s so obvious, and so simple, yet so much worse than we want to admit when you think about it.

Here it is, ready? The answer to the riddle is:

The Detroit Lions are not a football organization.

They have a football team, they employ football players and coaches and execs, but they do not exist to succeed at football. They do not exist to be judged by wins and losses.

They don’t even exist to make money as a football team! Sure, their franchise is worth exponentially more than WCF paid for it, but they’re second to last in terms of value. I haven’t seen current figures in a few years, but last I heard they were at the bottom of the league in revenue and profit too. This is where the “Fords just want to make money” arguments are wrong - but close.

For the real answer, I want you to consider this: The Ford Motor Company has an annual operating income of 20 to 30 billion dollars. Sales of 150 billion. Their annual advertising budget was 2.2 billion in 2019 - more than the value of the Lions franchise!

Even the Ford Foundation, the family tax write-off, has assets of 14 billion dollars. The fact that they put the director of it in charge of the Lions should tell you all you need to know. That and the “Ford Halftime Show.”

The Lions as a football team are insignificant to the Ford family as a primary moneymaking endeavor. Their ability to win football games is even less significant. They exist only to provide the Ford family and the Ford Motor Company with corporate, community, and nationwide prestige.

Would the Fords like the Lions to win? Sure they would, in the same way that I’d like a million dollars. If someone hands it to them, they will smile and take it. But developing a football team that earns it is not in their list of priorities, at least not high enough to do the work it takes. And it never will be because that’s not the primary reason they own the team. And if you think that doesn't affect everyone from the team president to the third string special team gunner, well I'm sorry but you're just wrong. 

Edited November 11, 2020 by Superduperman

[Karnage84]

15 minutes ago, Superduperman said:

This is where people come close to understanding the Ford family’s rationale in running the Lions, but don’t quite get there.

After observing this team for 45 years, and rooting for them for 30, and racking my brain like we all do why they never succeed, I figured it out. I solved the riddle of the Lions.

I don’t have time to write out my full thoughts on this, because I’d have to write a long-form essay which you don’t all want to read. I may do it someday, but I’m convinced I have ironclad reasoning.

Because I can’t lay it all out, some of you might scoff at this, especially one certain Lions apologist in this thread. It sounds kind of far fetched because it’s so obvious, and so simple, yet so much worse than we want to admit when you think about it.

Here it is, ready? The answer to the riddle is:

The Detroit Lions are not a football organization.

They have a football team, they employ football players and coaches and execs, but they do not exist to succeed at football. They do not exist to be judged by wins and losses.

They don’t even exist to make money as a football team! Sure, their franchise is worth exponentially more than WCF paid for it, but they’re second to last in terms of value. I haven’t seen current figures in a few years, but last I heard they were at the bottom of the league in revenue and profit too. This is where the “Fords just want to make money” arguments are wrong - but close.

For the real answer, I want you to consider this: The Ford Motor Company has an annual operating income of 20 to 30 billion dollars. Sales of 150 billion. Their annual advertising budget was 2.2 billion in 2019 - more than the value of the Lions franchise!

Even the Ford Foundation, the family tax write-off, has assets of 14 billion dollars. The fact that they put the director of it in charge of the Lions should tell you all you need to know. That and the “Ford Halftime Show.”

The Lions as a football team are insignificant to the Ford family as a primary moneymaking endeavor. Their ability to win football games is even less significant. They exist only to provide the Ford family and the Ford Motor Company with corporate, community, and nationwide prestige.

Would the Fords like the Lions to win? Sure they would, in the same way that I’d like a million dollars. If someone hands it to them, they will smile and take it. But developing a football team that earns it is not in their list of priorities, at least not high enough to do the work it takes. And it never will be because that’s not the primary reason they own the team. And if you think that doesn't affect everyone from the team president to the third string special team gunner, well I'm sorry but you're just wrong. 

This could be completely on the money but I have to hope that under SFH you're wrong and the team takes a new direction. When you're growing up and cheering on a team that has struggled for years, you wish you could do something about it. Sheila has been watching this team since she was at least 12 years old when the Fords bought the team.

She now has sole control over the team that she grew up watching. We can only speculate on how much influence she has had over the years. I'm just hoping that she seizes the opportunity that rarely few people will ever have and take over the ownership of their favourite team and runs with it. She doesn't need to be a draft expert of a cap expert.. she needs to know who to trust and make the right decisions on hiring the people for those roles. 

[Superduperman]

8 minutes ago, Karnage84 said:

This could be completely on the money but I have to hope that under SFH you're wrong and the team takes a new direction.

I agree that's all there is to hope for right now and illogically I hope that too because its the only reason to keep watching at all.

However, when it comes to making those decisions that go against what's easy or what is conventional wisdom in order to change things, I already see disturbing patterns. Keeping a HC and GM who are clearly failing because it would be hard and costly to replace them. Refusing to take the QB of the next generation that's staring you right in the face because you have a good-enough QB who's kind of popular. Doing the typical Ford thing of being completely invisible as your team throws another season away. Not very revolutionary on her part.

[Karnage84]

Just now, Superduperman said:

I agree that's all there is to hope for right now and illogically I hope that too because its the only reason to keep watching at all.

However, when it comes to making those decisions that go against what's easy or what is conventional wisdom in order to change things, I already see disturbing patterns. Keeping a HC and GM who are clearly failing because it would be hard and costly to replace them. Refusing to take the QB of the next generation that's staring you right in the face because you have a good-enough QB who's kind of popular. Doing the typical Ford thing of being completely invisible as your team throws another season away. Not very revolutionary on her part.

I mean.. I get the case for why they kept Quinn and Patricia up until this season. It's clearly a difference of opinion within the forum but I do think you need to give enough time to see a plan come to fruition (whether it's successful or not). 

Again, when it comes to selecting Tua or Herbert at #3.. I understand it too. If you have a HC and GM who are in a "make it or break it" year, drafting a QB isn't going to help this year and it's probably going to be to the rookie's detriment. A new regime comes in with a new system, could require different things from that QB. If we're going to start with a blank slate you don't want to have a guy you just invested the #3 overall pick in on the roster when a new HC/GM are going to want to bring in their own guy. If you trade that guy, you're looking at the 3rd system in 3 years, confidence is going to be damaged. You're also likely to get pennies on the dollar as a return because a team knows you aren't going to be carrying Tua/Herbert + Lawrence/Fields/Trask,etc. and Stafford. #9 is going to net at least a 1st. Again.. this could be a difference of opinion but I get it. 

What I don't get is why the decision to move on from MP hasn't been made at this point. We've been dominated against two division opponents (GB and MIN). We bungled the Chicago game. We won the Falcons game but really, they let that one slip away (I'll still take it). We were dominated against the Colts. We've had 3 occasions of 10 men on the field over the past 2 weeks. The Vikings are a team that looks like they could have a strong finish and be better than their current record. Indy looks that way. Heck, even the Giants put up a fight the other night. The Lions just look dejected unless Stafford and KG are playing hero ball. We might have 1-2 wins left on the schedule. You're not salvaging this year. Rip the band-aid off and start the search. 

 

[Superduperman]

You're talking and talking defending the safe, milquetoast way of doing things, and then asking why the Lions don't just rip the band aid off with Quinn and Patricia right now? Can you not see how you are contradicting yourself?

[TL-TwoWinsAway]

1 hour ago, Sllim Pickens said:

I disagree with this.  Owners attitudes and who they put in situations can easily dictate a winning culture.  For example, Robert Kraft wanted to win, and provided resources to do so.  Mark Cuban turned the Mavs from laughing stock into NBA champion.  Ballmer took the worst franchise in the history of sports and although they havent won, have been contenders and regulars in the playoffs since he bought the team.  Baseball is different because there is no cap but having an owner who not only wants to win but demands it is how championships are won.  The Fords are not football fans, they are business people and if the money is there, they don't really seem to care if they lose.  I am sure they want to win, but they are not setting a tone at the top that demands it.  They hired a person with absolutely zero football experience to be president of the team, they let mediocrity remain far too long and leads to us going further down without ever getting to the top.  

That being said, i don't blame them for not selling, I just wish they would truly care about the team and make them a priority rather than the hobby they appear to be. 

This is a good post. I just believe that more goes into things than "we didn't win, so blame the owner".

I agreed with the Quinn hire, and I agreed with the Patricia hire. They have both fallen short. I blame each of them, not the owner who has almost nothing to do with scouting, drafting and coaching.

[Sllim Pickens]

2 minutes ago, TL-TwoWinsAway said:

This is a good post. I just believe that more goes into things than "we didn't win, so blame the owner".

I agreed with the Quinn hire, and I agreed with the Patricia hire. They have both fallen short. I blame each of them, not the owner who has almost nothing to do with scouting, drafting and coaching.

It isn't just a simple, these guys failed so blame the owners.  This is a history of failing, and not really caring as Supe said in more words above.  But I know that in any organization, you need resources, you need leadership, and you need someone to scare them a little to make the right decisions, and most of all just an attitude that will be picked up by those below you.  I get that they have nothing to do with the day to day operations but you know who does, Ron Wood.  Who hired Wood and has let him stay in that position for a decade now while the team loses games and doesn't maximize their profits? The owners.  

Its human nature for people to take advantage of situations when given the chance.  When you allow someone like Matt Millen allow to stay in his position for as long as he did with the results he had, others in the organization feel they don't need to do their best.  Its a losing culture, and it has infiltrated the whole organization from top to bottom.  I know they aren't directly or solely responsible for 70 years of mediocrity at best,   but they are the one constant through it all.  They are the ones that allow it to continue, and they are the ones that show very little interest.  Supe is right, its a status symbol to them.  They dont care about the results, they dont need the profits.  There has never been the emotion for this team shown by the Ford family that Ilitch did for the Wings and Tigers.  And oddly enough since his death, both of those organizations have fallen apart.  You can't tell me an owner who is passionate about his team and his sport does not have an impact on the whole organization.