Week 11 GDT - Dolphins at Broncos

[thebestever6]

4 minutes ago, BroncoBruin said:

The hell are you talking about? If we’re going to compare them, compare their total offensive production. The rushing production matters, even if it doesn’t suit your argument. Allen was the worst passer in the league that year. He absolutely stunk. I’m supposed to believe Lock is going to be good because he’s been marginally better than a guy who was the worst passer in the league as a rookie?

Never said anything like this but don't call yourself objective because that's laughable. I simply share the exact same thoughts as the head coach.

"I think Drew comes back from bad plays," Head Coach Vic Fangio said after the game. "I think that's one of his good qualities. I don't think he lets it linger and has a hangover from it. Again, getting the running game going helps the boot game and having the defense play well alongside that turns it to where it's not a game where you have to throw it every play and they can tee off on the rush."

[BroncoBruin]

You seem extremely confused, let me see if I can help: I’m NOT holding Lock’s lack of rushing production against him. As is the case with most QBs, it ends up being a net neutral. But for a guy like Allen, the rushing ability makes him a better quarterback and gives him an extra dimension that Drew will never have. So comparing the two solely based on passing numbers is pointless, it doesn’t present a full picture of what Allen brings to the table.

[BroncoBruin]

5 minutes ago, thebestever6 said:

Never said anything like this but don't call yourself objective because that's laughable. I simply share the exact same thoughts as the head coach.

"I think Drew comes back from bad plays," Head Coach Vic Fangio said after the game. "I think that's one of his good qualities. I don't think he lets it linger and has a hangover from it. Again, getting the running game going helps the boot game and having the defense play well alongside that turns it to where it's not a game where you have to throw it every play and they can tee off on the rush."

How have I not been objective? He’s been bad. When he played well last year, I gave him credit. On the other hand, you’ve done nothing but grasp at straws trying to find every excuse imaginable for Drew during this stretch, even resorting to arguing that teammates defending him on Twitter is some indication of him being the guy...

Edited November 23, 2020 by BroncoBruin

[thebestever6]

2 minutes ago, BroncoBruin said:

So comparing the two solely based on passing numbers is pointless, it doesn’t present a full picture of what Allen brings to the table.

Oh so bc Drew doesn't Have his rushing ability yet has a better record as a starter his first 13 games makes giving up on Drew Lock ok

[BroncoBruin]

1 minute ago, thebestever6 said:

Oh so bc Drew doesn't Have his rushing ability yet has a better record as a starter his first 13 games makes giving up on Drew Lock ok

You’re joking right? You didn’t actually read my post and think this response made sense, did you? You’re completely lost tonight. 

[thebestever6]

2 minutes ago, BroncoBruin said:

On the other hand, you’ve done nothing but grasp at straws trying to find every excuse imaginable for Drew during this stretch. 

Whattt??? So falsified lol and you have been a Schurmer fan boy. 

Other than Miami I haven't been impressed I think the new running plays were the difference I'll give Shurmer that.

[BroncoBruin]

1 minute ago, thebestever6 said:

Whattt??? So falsified lol and you have been a Schurmer fan boy. 

Other than Miami I haven't been impressed I think the new running plays were the difference I'll give Shurmer that.

I think Shurmur is a good OC, yes. And yet, you can find posts in nearly every game day thread where I’m critical of him. Funny how that works.

[thebestever6]

2 minutes ago, BroncoBruin said:

I think Shurmur is a good OC, yes. And yet, you can find posts in nearly every game day thread where I’m critical of him. Funny how that works.

Do you give drew no credit for showing up playing decent against miami with injured ribs and all the noise?

Lock is the worst starter in the league yet Jimmy G basically had his season end with poor play against miami

[thebestever6]

All I'm saying is I watched miami a ton this year they were my sleeper team. They made Herbert, Goff, Jimmy G either look bad or pedestrian.

You turn to the opening of this thread and Lock was dead in the water going 0-6 with a pick the Narrative was written. I expected another week of Lock bashing.

Then something happened idk what it was. If I had to guess it was resiliency but that's too big of a word for this forum. I Know I'll get killed if I use that word because I feel that's a trait of a franchise qb and I see on here he's showed no flashes so I'll just say something happened.

The following 24 attempts he completed 18-24 attempts. After going 0-6 and having the narrative written for him I'll take it. 

[French Fan]

5 hours ago, BroncoBruin said:

You really think this is what people have a problem with, not his poor play? I know you’re a big fan of his and want him to work (we all do) but that’s not true at all. 

Luton was never meant to be a starter. And good lord are we really comparing Drew Lock to Jake Luton to make a point 

You compare Lock (2nd round 42th) to Burrows (1st pick 1st round) to Herbert (6th pick rd 1) . Why not compare with Luton ?

Why not talking to Tua game yesterday ? You trust Fangio defense for the win ? What about Fitzpatrick take the ball at is 1 and see our defense look another awful.

Put the heat on Lock each time is easy. It is not your QB but this is  Lock Team's as Fangio and all players said.

[lomaxgrUK]

It's such a strange position to be in. I have very little counter argument to @broncosfan_101 who wants us to either win with clear progression being shown by Drew, or lose. There is nothing but logic here.

I just can't not be happy when we win. I just can't not want us to win by any means possible. I think that is likely down to my British upbringing, where franchises don't exist and winning is everything. There is no drafting, and therefore no tanking.

That isn't me saying my opinion is right - far from it. Like I said, I totally understand the reasoning from not feeling the same as I do. But, ultimately, I just want to win. I can't help it.

What I would say is that it is harsh to say Drew showed nothing in this game. He was 0/6 with a (terrible) INT, then went 15 of his next 21 for 180 yards (that was a mid game tweet from Klis, not sure how that finished). He made some good throws, and a couple of excellent throws. But ...

... I am still coming back to the Goff comparison. Every good throw seems to be defined. It's never coming off his #1 read and making his way to his #3 which you have to be able to do. He did it so well for the Fumagali target, but then threw it 5 yards over his head. His presnap read on the Hamler post route from the slot vs the LB was what I have been crying out for, then he overthrew that. 

He was playing a really in form defense and he did show progress this week. But, against a better Offense, we could have been out of that game in the 1st quarter.

[jsthomp2007]

That was  the most balanced play calling I've seen out of Shurmer. I'm on the fence to blow things up and start over with the coaching staff and the QB, and giving it all one more year when we might get an off season where Lock can improve, but it's obvious footwork sucks. That throw to a wide open Fumagalli defined it all to me; a professional QB makes that throw...

It seems like everything else is there. The defense seems good no matter who they plug in on the defensive line. I couldn't imagine what this team looks like with a top CB and Von back; perhaps get an upgrade at MLB? Although I've enjoyed the A Johnson and Jewel combo.

If the Broncos want to spend the draft on the offensive line I'd do that if I were the Broncos. I think that's obvious that we have the worst offensive line, perhaps in the league.

If you do that then this team gets better. But again the ifs are thrown at the coaching in terms of in game management and the QB. By all accounts the way the defense played, the game shouldn't have come down to a late INT to win the game. That game should have been done the moment they put Fitz in there. 

Edited November 23, 2020 by jsthomp2007

[jolly red giant]

45 minutes ago, lomaxgrUK said:

I just can't not be happy when we win. I just can't not want us to win by any means possible. I think that is likely down to my British upbringing, where franchises don't exist and winning is everything. There is no drafting, and therefore no tanking.

Well I'm Irish - so it is a similar thing. I can never understand a fan wanting their team to lose. 

If you really want to see bad at the moment look at the Irish soccer team - a new coach with no experience of coaching anything above what would be the equivalent of high school football in the USA - 

In their last 12 games the Irish team have 1 win (in a friendly against a low ranked New Zealand team) - 6 draws and 5 losses. In the last 9 games they have scored the grand total of 2 goals and haven't scored anything in the last 7 games. The games are absolute torture to watch - no transfers, no free agents, no draft to improve the team. But I watch every game - cheer every completed pass - cry at every missed chance - and I know they will not get any better for the next couple of years. But I am an optimist - there are a dozen kids (18-20 year-olds) who have the potential to become really good players - chances are they all won't - but even if half of them do Ireland will have an opportunity of getting to a major international championship (and once you get there ---- )

[jolly red giant]

Can I just make a few comments about Lock - I don't think that he will become the qbotf - but it is too early to give up on the guy. Yes he does some stupid things - yes he doesn't go through his progressions - yes his footwork sucks. But we do not know a couple of things - has he fully recovered from the shoulder injury? how bad were his ribs yesterday? Are the coaches putting him in the best position to succeed or are they implementing a scheme and seeing if he sinks or swims?

Lock was a 2nd round pick - and he was good value where he was picked.

Of the 32 starting QBs in the NFL

7 were picked at 1.1

17 in the top ten

24 in the first round

Of the current starters - Prescott, Menshew, Cousins, Garoppolo, Wilson and Brady were drafted lower than Lock. Of the last 30 QBs taken in the first round - 10 no longer play (and the Broncos had two of them). 

Unless you are picking in the top two picks it is very much a lottery whether you get a capable QB - and even with the top two picks there are no guarantees (it just improves your chances) - if evaluating a QBOTF was easy then no team would ever lack a starting calibre QB - but it isn't.

Unless Lock completely bombs over the next 6 games I think you have no choice but to see through what he is capable of. I think it is unlikely Fangio is given another QB to work with unless the Broncos can get one of the top two QBs in the draft. While I doubt he will deserve it - I think Elway is really forced to roll with Lock - an off-season of work - the offensive scheme the same for a second season - improvements on the OL - and some quality players back on the pitch.

And as others have said - until the ownership is sorted it is going to be very difficult to build a competitive team with Ellis holding the purse strings.

[rcpbawler]

6 hours ago, thebestever6 said:

Oh I'm sorry Wentz is called the worst starter all over the east coast. Hmmmm where's Dwayne haskins at . Him being the worst starter is wayyy over dramaticiszed.

Serious question other than Lawrence is there anyone you'd trust as a qb? 

This franchise has become a joke ripping off band aid after bandaid at qb since Manning. 

Oc after OC has had a volitile running game this year.

Let me be clear on this if Drew Lock fails I don't wanna go Qb until this organization is changed at the top. Bc I don't see any young guy succeeding for this volitile situation

 

Once again, comparing him to the husk of Carson Wentz or a guy who lost his starting job weeks ago is hardly an endorsement for Lock dude. He has absolutely been one of the worst, if not the worst qb in the league if you take off your rose colored glasses.

Yes, I believe that Fields, Wilson and Lance are all better prospects than Drew lock ever was. The 2 former I'd trust to come in and immediately upgrade the offense while Lance could take a Josh Allen type trajectory but has enormous potential (also depends a lot more on the coaching staff to maximize imo).

This offense is ready made. All of the weapons we have at our disposable and another year for the offensive line to grow and gel, I don't see why we're not one of the top destinations for a rookie QB