ET80 Posted November 29, 2020 Share Posted November 29, 2020 18 minutes ago, Forge said: I feel bad for Carolina...I do think that they are only going to get Brady for a single year. I think someone is going to offer him a head coaching gig next season. If I'm Carolina, I'm looking at Brady's staff (QB coach, OL coach, etc) and promoting one of those guys very quickly, before Brady can poach them over. Yes, Joe Brady is proving his worth, but growing under Matt Rhule is also a very appealing opportunity. Rhule is making some great progress with Carolina as a whole, and that's going to lead to interviews for his coordinators very quickly. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TL-TwoWinsAway Posted November 29, 2020 Share Posted November 29, 2020 (edited) 36 minutes ago, Outpost31 said: No. Like I said, once you get to 23/24 and the back half of the draft, once all the premium positions have been taken, it gets more acceptable. But as a team you better be damn sure there's not a similar player at a more premium position or I don't care how good the player turns out, you're going to regret it. The closer to 1st overall you pick those positions, the worse the decision is. If you disagree, I would like to see a single IOL, WR, RB, TE drafted in the top 12 of the first round that wasn't a terrible mistake. What? I mean, a single one? Larry Fitzgerald? LaDainian Tomlinson? Calvin Johnson? Adrian Peterson? Barry Sanders? Eric Dickerson? If you're basing this on team success only (which is flawed, in my opinion), what about Jamal Lewis? If you're on the clock at #20, and you've got an IOL graded as the highest-rated player available, he's a far better pick than reaching on a premium position. An All Pro IOL is far more valuable to a team than a bust at a premium position. Good players are good players. Bad players are bad players. Reaching on a lesser player because he plays a certain position is far more damaging to an organization than adding great players at IOL, RB or WR. Edited November 29, 2020 by TL-TwoWinsAway 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waterfish_21 Posted November 29, 2020 Share Posted November 29, 2020 4 hours ago, Xenos said: Do you like bend but don’t break defenses? We currently run a bend and snap defense so yes, will be an upgrade. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TL-TwoWinsAway Posted November 29, 2020 Share Posted November 29, 2020 1 minute ago, waterfish_21 said: We currently run a bend and snap defense so yes, will be an upgrade. Pfft. At least you bend for a while. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MacReady Posted November 29, 2020 Share Posted November 29, 2020 (edited) Just now, TL-TwoWinsAway said: What? I mean, a single one? Larry Fitzgerald? LaDainian Tomlinson? Calvin Johnson? Adrian Peterson? Barry Sanders? Eric Dickerson? If you're basing this on team success only (which is flawed, in my opinion), what about Jamal Lewis? Reggie Bush even? If you're on the clock at #20, and you've got an IOL graded as the highest-rated player available, he's a far better pick than reaching on a premium position. An All Pro IOL is far more valuable to a team than a bust at a premium position. Good players are good players. Bad players are bad players. Reaching on a lesser player because he plays a certain position is far more damaging to an organization than adding great players at IOL, RB or WR. Larry Fitzgerald has won 0 Super Bowls. I guarantee you the Cardinals are closer to a Super Bowl win if they'd taken Rivers. Tomlinson won 0 Super Bowls. I guarantee you the Chargers got closer to winning one if they had taken Richard Seymour. Calvin Johnson? Joe Thomas. Adrian Peterson? Patrick Willis. Jamal Lewis? Corey Simon. Reggie Bush? Ferguson. Literally all of those the team would have been better off picking another player. You can sell more tickets by getting those players I guess. You're out of your mind if you think the Ravens wouldn't have won that Super Bowl without Lewis. Priest Holmes was on that roster. Add Corey Simon to that defense and the Ravens might have won if they knelt on every offensive play. And not necessarily on the IOL. Look at Frank Ragnow. The Lions are better off if they draft Wynn. If Wynn busts at OT, he's probably still going to be a top guard. Edited November 29, 2020 by Outpost31 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TL-TwoWinsAway Posted November 29, 2020 Share Posted November 29, 2020 (edited) 6 minutes ago, Outpost31 said: Larry Fitzgerald has won 0 Super Bowls. I guarantee you the Cardinals are closer to a Super Bowl win if they'd taken Rivers. Tomlinson won 0 Super Bowls. I guarantee you the Chargers got closer to winning one if they had taken Richard Seymour. Calvin Johnson? Joe Thomas. Adrian Peterson? Patrick Willis. Jamal Lewis? Corey Simon. Reggie Bush? Ferguson. Literally all of those the team would have been better off picking another player. You can sell more tickets by getting those players I guess. Oh. Riiiight. It's that hindsight stuff. If those teams picked [insert All Pro player] instead, they would have won more games. Frankly, what a horrible argument. Here: I'll make a list of QBs that busted early in the draft, then argue that drafting a QB early was a mistake because [insert All Pro player] could have been drafted instead. What about another list: draft busts at premium positions where it would've benefitted the team more to have selected an All Pro IOL, WR or RB. Because, you know, hindsight. Why even draft players? Teams should clearly just sign the great undrafted players that emerge each year. Drafting players is for losers without hindsight. Horrible. Edited November 29, 2020 by TL-TwoWinsAway 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MacReady Posted November 29, 2020 Share Posted November 29, 2020 Just now, TL-TwoWinsAway said: Oh. Riiiight. It's that hindsight stuff. If those teams picked [insert All Pro player] instead, they would have won more games. Frankly, what a horrible argument. Here: I'll make a list of QBs that busted early in the draft, then argue that drafting a QB early was a mistake because [insert All Pro player] could have been drafted instead. What about another list: draft busts at premium positions where it would've benefitted the team more to have selected an All Pro IOL, WR or RB. Because, you know, hindsight. Horrible. It's not hindsight when literally all of Super Bowl history backs it up. Teams who invest first in more important positions win Super Bowls. Teams who invest in less important positions fire their GMs. You are a Lions fan I assume. Do you not remember when your team picked Eric Ebron instead of Aaron Donald? Or when you drafted a WR in the first round like 17 years in a row? 18 of your last 35 first round draft picks have been non-premium positions (RB, IOL, TE, ILB, WR) and you're still defending that thought process? How have the Lions been since 1990? Then look at the Packers. 7 non-premium positions since 1990. Two of those 7 were the worst GM the Packers had in that time. All 7 of them were busts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Bad Example Posted November 29, 2020 Share Posted November 29, 2020 2 hours ago, 49ersfan said: My main fear is that firing a HC mid-season can lead to an Interim doing well, getting hired, and then stinking up the franchise for a couple more years. It happened with the Niners when they fired Mike Nolan, Singletary did well that half season and it cost them 2 years of wasted football until they hired Harbaugh. It also happened with your Browns, they fired Hue during the year and it helped propel Kitchens into the job. That was a wasted year until they hired Stefanski. It's usually explained by positive regression - many (most?) bad teams in any given season are "oh, we didn't get the breaks!" (i.e. the 3-12-1 2019 Lions). So the stuff that didn't go the teams' way during the miserable start goes back to the positive, or at least average; and usually firing the boss means that the employees realise "oh crap, NO ONE is safe, I'd better start busting my butt" so there's that bounce of players working vs being lazy/angry. And no doubt in many cases, like a good IC noted what the HC was doing WRONG and fixes those issues. So in a lot of cases, that's why an interim guy who is competent goes .500 taking over for the prior HC who was in the dregs as far as win pct. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FrantikRam Posted November 29, 2020 Share Posted November 29, 2020 2 minutes ago, Outpost31 said: It's not hindsight when literally all of Super Bowl history backs it up. Teams who invest first in more important positions win Super Bowls. Teams who invest in less important positions fire their GMs. You are a Lions fan I assume. Do you not remember when your team picked Eric Ebron instead of Aaron Donald? Or when you drafted a WR in the first round like 17 years in a row? 18 of your last 35 first round draft picks have been non-premium positions (RB, IOL, TE, ILB, WR) and you're still defending that thought process? How have the Lions been since 1990? Then look at the Packers. 7 non-premium positions since 1990. Two of those 7 were the worst GM the Packers had in that time. All 7 of them were busts. Just to come on in and destroy your whole premise, the Rams drafted Torry Holt at 6 overall and won the Super Bowl right away, with him catching a TD in that Super Bowl as a rookie. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matts4313 Posted November 29, 2020 Share Posted November 29, 2020 Lions need a HC/GM Texans need a HC and GM Both franchises like the Billy B tree.... I see a swap. What say you @ET80? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TL-TwoWinsAway Posted November 29, 2020 Share Posted November 29, 2020 (edited) 9 minutes ago, Outpost31 said: It's not hindsight when literally all of Super Bowl history backs it up. Teams who invest first in more important positions win Super Bowls. Teams who invest in less important positions fire their GMs. You are a Lions fan I assume. Do you not remember when your team picked Eric Ebron instead of Aaron Donald? Or when you drafted a WR in the first round like 17 years in a row? 18 of your last 35 first round draft picks have been non-premium positions (RB, IOL, TE, ILB, WR) and you're still defending that thought process? How have the Lions been since 1990? Then look at the Packers. 7 non-premium positions since 1990. Two of those 7 were the worst GM the Packers had in that time. All 7 of them were busts. It seems that you're confused, and are trying to strawman your way out of this. My being a Lions fan does not mean I agree with their draft decisions. Pretending that there's some correlation there is just as flawed as arguing draft decisions on hindsight. Would the Raiders have won more games drafting JaMarcus Russell or Calvin Johnson? JaMarcus Russell or Adrian Peterson? Honestly, I could sit here and post hundreds of hindsight examples of how drafting non-premium positions over busts at premium positions would've helped teams win more games, but it simply isn't worth it. Any argument based solely on hindsight is awful. This qualifies. Edited November 29, 2020 by TL-TwoWinsAway 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FrantikRam Posted November 29, 2020 Share Posted November 29, 2020 1 hour ago, Outpost31 said: No. Like I said, once you get to 23/24 and the back half of the draft, once all the premium positions have been taken, it gets more acceptable. But as a team you better be damn sure there's not a similar player at a more premium position or I don't care how good the player turns out, you're going to regret it. The closer to 1st overall you pick those positions, the worse the decision is. If you disagree, I would like to see a single IOL, WR, RB, TE drafted in the top 12 of the first round that wasn't a terrible mistake. Ah yes, as I pointed out, Torry Holt for the Rams. Great pick and led to a Super Bowl win - which is your criteria, right? Its pretty bad criteria IMO, but I blew it up for you. If you think the Chargers, Cardinals and Bucs regret picking LT, Fitzgerald and Evans....I don't know what to tell you. I love AD - obviously - but until this year, the Rams have never had a top 10 finish in either yards allowed or points allowed per game. And he hasn't won us a Super Bowl either. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FrantikRam Posted November 29, 2020 Share Posted November 29, 2020 Anyways, the Lions need to catch a break. It's officially become less painful to be a Browns fan. They need a good coach badly. What do Lions fans think of Stafford? I'd try to get a first round pick for him this off-season Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MacReady Posted November 29, 2020 Share Posted November 29, 2020 (edited) Just now, FrantikRam said: Ah yes, as I pointed out, Torry Holt for the Rams. Great pick and led to a Super Bowl win - which is your criteria, right? Its pretty bad criteria IMO, but I blew it up for you. You've found a single outlier and you're acting like you've just blown up my argument? Remove Holt, add Bailey and you've still got a team that's going to win the Super Bowl. Additionally, that was in 1999. You're going to say I'm narrowing the goal posts here, but the game was different in 1999 than it is now. If you don't believe me, look at the numbers of 2nd-7th round receivers who are breaking out in today's NFL versus yesterday's NFL. Jerry Rice was another one, too. I've given you another one. It's free. Same rule applies. Different era of football. Edited November 29, 2020 by Outpost31 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nnivolcm Posted November 29, 2020 Share Posted November 29, 2020 (edited) Should have happened 10 months ago. Edited November 29, 2020 by Nnivolcm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.