oakdb36 Posted February 23, 2021 Share Posted February 23, 2021 56 minutes ago, BayRaider said: I'm not talking about fair market value. That's a different discussion. That was the discussion. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BackinBlack Posted February 23, 2021 Share Posted February 23, 2021 4 minutes ago, NCOUGHMAN said: Interesting how many 2020 teams recorded the worse defensive performances ever Im not arguing that scoring is not going up across the league. Im arguing that giving up 28.4+ point/ game is a recipe for losing football games. Take our record out of it, and the other 5 teams from this season on that list averaged 4.2W. We got 8, almost double. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BackinBlack Posted February 23, 2021 Share Posted February 23, 2021 (edited) From that list of 50, the average amount of wins is 3.5 / Season. So theoretically, our O/U on wins in 2018 was 3.5 based off how many points we gave up. We were over. 4-12 is absolute trash. . . not arguing against that. edited in. . In Carrs Rookie season we gave up 28.25 ppg. we went 3-13 so below the average / but rookie season and other excuses for sure, but probably about where a team giving up that many points ranks on average. So carrs two garbage year by W/L - going on stats based of W of teams with similar Ds, its fairly average. -- But when taking into account how bad our D was that year, we statistical did better than expected. This is why only looking at QB records is misleading. If you have a bad D, you are going to lose more. Edited February 23, 2021 by BackinBlack Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BayRaider Posted February 23, 2021 Share Posted February 23, 2021 44 minutes ago, BackinBlack said: i have no problem saying our D played well that game. although i seem to remember some big drops by Cle on 3rd down. but in a crazy weather conditioned game, Carr I think played pretty well. and had a few runs on 3rd down for the first. 8/14 on 3rd 2/2 on 4th we had 71 plays on O and 37 mins time of possession. Id say that was a team win. That was the #WindBowl. I give Carr his fair criticism and I will also give the D fair criticism. For three weeks in a row the city of Cleveland was experiencing winds/gusts that made football impossible. During those three weeks, Cleveland lost to the Raiders 16-6, had a bye week, and beat Houston 10-7. I don't really give our defense much credit for that game. Our best defensive performance was easily vs Denver, and they played well against Miami besides that final drive. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BackinBlack Posted February 23, 2021 Share Posted February 23, 2021 Raiders Points Allowed Per Game & record; 2014 - 28.25 - 3&13 2015 - 24.9 - 7&9 2016 - 24.2 - 12&3 2017 - 23.3 - 6&9 2018 - 29.2 - 4&12 2019 - 26.2 - 7&9 2020 - 29.9 - 8&8 A middle of the pack D is typicaly around 23ppg. in 2017, we were 20th in points allowed. Giving up as many points as we have over Carrs career, you would require a HOF QB to be a consistent playoff team. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NCOUGHMAN Posted February 23, 2021 Share Posted February 23, 2021 22 minutes ago, BackinBlack said: From that list of 50, the average amount of wins is 3.5 / Season. So theoretically, our O/U on wins in 2018 was 3.5 based off how many points we gave up. We were over. 4-12 is absolute trash. . . not arguing against that. edited in. . In Carrs Rookie season we gave up 28.25 ppg. we went 3-13 so below the average / but rookie season and other excuses for sure, but probably about where a team giving up that many points ranks on average. So carrs two garbage year by W/L - going on stats based of W of teams with similar Ds, its fairly average. -- But when taking into account how bad our D was that year, we statistical did better than expected. This is why only looking at QB records is misleading. If you have a bad D, you are going to lose more. Are you including pick6’s and fumbles etc that the defense had nothing to do with Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NCOUGHMAN Posted February 23, 2021 Share Posted February 23, 2021 9 minutes ago, BackinBlack said: Raiders Points Allowed Per Game & record; 2014 - 28.25 - 3&13 2015 - 24.9 - 7&9 2016 - 24.2 - 12&3 2017 - 23.3 - 6&9 2018 - 29.2 - 4&12 2019 - 26.2 - 7&9 2020 - 29.9 - 8&8 A middle of the pack D is typicaly around 23ppg. in 2017, we were 20th in points allowed. Giving up as many points as we have over Carrs career, you would require a HOF QB to be a consistent playoff team. Hmmm best defense was 2017 and we still we 6-9 hmmm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BackinBlack Posted February 23, 2021 Share Posted February 23, 2021 Just now, NCOUGHMAN said: Are you including pick6’s and fumbles etc that the defense had nothing to do with LOL nope. feel free to put that together and show me the data to make your point. Im sure every team on that list had fumbles and pick 6s. Some probably even more than us. For now, Im going off the info I have.. . and that data shows, you dont consistently win games giving up 28.4 ppg. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BackinBlack Posted February 23, 2021 Share Posted February 23, 2021 1 minute ago, NCOUGHMAN said: Hmmm best defense was 2017 and we still we 6-9 hmmm lol yup, his best defense was 20th best and he had a broken bone in his back. but yes that was easily his worst year for us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geezy Posted February 23, 2021 Share Posted February 23, 2021 27 minutes ago, BackinBlack said: From that list of 50, the average amount of wins is 3.5 / Season. So theoretically, our O/U on wins in 2018 was 3.5 based off how many points we gave up. We were over. 4-12 is absolute trash. . . not arguing against that. edited in. . In Carrs Rookie season we gave up 28.25 ppg. we went 3-13 so below the average / but rookie season and other excuses for sure, but probably about where a team giving up that many points ranks on average. So carrs two garbage year by W/L - going on stats based of W of teams with similar Ds, its fairly average. -- But when taking into account how bad our D was that year, we statistical did better than expected. This is why only looking at QB records is misleading. If you have a bad D, you are going to lose more. bro, they aint trying to hear the facts. Carr sucks get over it! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BackinBlack Posted February 23, 2021 Share Posted February 23, 2021 Just now, Geezy said: bro, they aint trying to hear the facts. Carr sucks get over it! hahah i know, dont know why i let myself back into this convos ahha. .. procrastination at its finest. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geezy Posted February 23, 2021 Share Posted February 23, 2021 3 minutes ago, BackinBlack said: hahah i know, dont know why i let myself back into this convos ahha. .. procrastination at its finest. definition of talking to a brick wall in here. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NCOUGHMAN Posted February 23, 2021 Share Posted February 23, 2021 8 minutes ago, BackinBlack said: LOL nope. feel free to put that together and show me the data to make your point. Im sure every team on that list had fumbles and pick 6s. Some probably even more than us. For now, Im going off the info I have.. . and that data shows, you dont consistently win games giving up 28.4 ppg. No qb fumbles more than carr lol come on keep it real 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilverNBlackFan Posted February 23, 2021 Share Posted February 23, 2021 (edited) 25 minutes ago, BackinBlack said: Raiders Points Allowed Per Game & record; 2014 - 28.25 - 3&13 2015 - 24.9 - 7&9 2016 - 24.2 - 12&3 2017 - 23.3 - 6&9 2018 - 29.2 - 4&12 2019 - 26.2 - 7&9 2020 - 29.9 - 8&8 A middle of the pack D is typicaly around 23ppg. in 2017, we were 20th in points allowed. Giving up as many points as we have over Carrs career, you would require a HOF QB to be a consistent playoff team. And look at where we spent our money the majority of those years. 2017 2nd in league in O spending. 2018 2nd in league in O spending. 2019 6th In league in O spending 2020 2nd in league in O spending. When you are consistently that lopsided in spending, are you really surprised the defense has been trash. Truth is, Carr has been given more help and a longer leash than a majority of QBs with little to show for. His biggest claim to fame in 7 years was a empty stadium win in October vs the Chiefs. But let's continue to paint him as a victim. Edited February 23, 2021 by SilverNBlackFan 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BackinBlack Posted February 23, 2021 Share Posted February 23, 2021 3 minutes ago, NCOUGHMAN said: No qb fumbles more than carr lol come on keep it real Sure ill give you that on a sack to fumble %, but you said fumble and pick 6s, so id bet theyd average out. I feel like pick 6s are more common than a fumble for 6 (could be wrong). then on top of that we keep Carr relatively clean, so he is sacked less. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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