Rich7sena Posted February 23, 2021 Author Share Posted February 23, 2021 16 hours ago, BayRaider said: Fully agreed. His play matches his current contract, he even outperforms his current contract a tiny bit. However, he plays well below a 30M+ type QB. The original quote I was responding to. But carry on with your "facts and logic." 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geezy Posted February 23, 2021 Share Posted February 23, 2021 7 minutes ago, SilverNBlackFan said: And look at where we spent our money the majority of those years. 2017 2nd in league in O spending. 2018 2nd in league in O spending. 2019 6th In league in O spending 2020 2nd in league in O spending. When you are consistently that lopsided in spending, are you really surprised the defense has been trash. Truth is, Carr has been given more help and a longer leash than a majority of QBs with little to show for. His biggest claim to fame in 7 years was a empty stadium win in October vs the Chiefs. But let's continue to paint him as a victim. more help lmao gtfoh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerry Posted February 23, 2021 Share Posted February 23, 2021 47 minutes ago, BayRaider said: That was the #WindBowl. I give Carr his fair criticism and I will also give the D fair criticism. For three weeks in a row the city of Cleveland was experiencing winds/gusts that made football impossible. During those three weeks, Cleveland lost to the Raiders 16-6, had a bye week, and beat Houston 10-7. I don't really give our defense much credit for that game. Our best defensive performance was easily vs Denver, and they played well against Miami besides that final drive. I remember Baker Mayfield's passes going all over the plan. You can tell it clearly affected him. I don't get how anyone can forget that. Our defense was lucky Cleveland doesn't know how to play in windy conditions. They probably could have ran the ball to the outside and destroyed us all game if they just watched what the Patriots did to us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BackinBlack Posted February 23, 2021 Share Posted February 23, 2021 4 minutes ago, SilverNBlackFan said: And look at where we spent our money the majority of those years. 2017 2nd in league in O spending. 2018 2nd in league in O spending. 2019 6th In league in O spending 2020 2nd in league in O spending. When you are consistently that lopsided in spending, are you really surprised the defense has been trash. Truth is, Carr has been given more help and a longer leash than a majority of QBs with little to show for. His biggest claim to fame in 7 years was a empty stadium win in October vs the Chiefs. But let's continue to paint him as a victim. Bud, do you really want me to provide a list of Carrs weapons over his career? If you think our weapons have been better than the majority of QBs than you are mistaken. 2020 - very nice of you to mention that we spent so much on O, but you do realize like 35mil of it plaed like 20 total snaps? 2019- how much money did we pay AB? honest quesiton, but again we pay players that dont actual play in games. 2018 - wasnt jordy about to retire and gruden talked him out of it?!? and M Bryant wow what an impact player. Sure we spend a lot on weapons, but, unfortunately we spend it on players who dont play. Thats not on Carr, that is on the FO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BayRaider Posted February 23, 2021 Share Posted February 23, 2021 12 minutes ago, SilverNBlackFan said: And look at where we spent our money the majority of those years. 2017 2nd in league in O spending. 2018 2nd in league in O spending. 2019 6th In league in O spending 2020 2nd in league in O spending. When you are consistently that lopsided in spending, are you really surprised the defense has been trash. Truth is, Carr has been given more help and a longer leash than a majority of QBs with little to show for. His biggest claim to fame in 7 years was a empty stadium win in October vs the Chiefs. But let's continue to paint him as a victim. This 100%. Carr has been given so many resources and has been given way more than usual QB's get. The Raider Organization has done so much for him to succeed. And he hasn't quite lived up to the expectation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerry Posted February 23, 2021 Share Posted February 23, 2021 4 minutes ago, Jerry said: I remember Baker Mayfield's passes going all over the place. You can tell it clearly affected him. I don't get how anyone can forget that. Our defense was lucky Cleveland doesn't know how to play in windy conditions. They probably could have ran the ball to the outside and destroyed us all game if they just watched what the Patriots did to us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BackinBlack Posted February 23, 2021 Share Posted February 23, 2021 1 minute ago, BayRaider said: This 100%. Carr has been given so many resources and has been given way more than usual QB's get. The Raider Organization has done so much for him to succeed. And he hasn't quite lived up to the expectation. these resources being? AB Jordy Nelson Tyrell Williams - turf toe week 4 2019, and missed all 2020 M Bryant Amari - this one is legit, and he balled first two years, not sure what happen (This legit Carr deserves blame) Trent Brown - KO - packed it in I agree the raiders have tried to put peices around Carr. . but our drafts have been bad, and we are picking up players who are ready to retire in FA. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerry Posted February 23, 2021 Share Posted February 23, 2021 19 minutes ago, SilverNBlackFan said: And look at where we spent our money the majority of those years. 2017 2nd in league in O spending. 2018 2nd in league in O spending. 2019 6th In league in O spending 2020 2nd in league in O spending. When you are consistently that lopsided in spending, are you really surprised the defense has been trash. Truth is, Carr has been given more help and a longer leash than a majority of QBs with little to show for. His biggest claim to fame in 7 years was a empty stadium win in October vs the Chiefs. But let's continue to paint him as a victim. Spending doesn't equate to help. We had essentiall 30M on the bench all season. Inc went down, Brown went down, T. Williams went down. Spending doesn't equal help. Just crazy how you use spending as your argument to prove that DC has more help than other QBs in the league. All of his WRs were either in there 1st year in the system or first two years in the league. His RB is in his second year. His LG and RT went down for the season. Your argument is trash. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilverNBlackFan Posted February 23, 2021 Share Posted February 23, 2021 (edited) 15 minutes ago, Geezy said: more help lmao gtfoh Amari Cooper and Crabtree were one of, if not, the best WR duo in the league for 2 years. Facts. We have had one of the more expensive Olines over the years since Carr REQUIRES that to succeed. Facts. Two top ten TEs in Jared Cook and Waller. Facts. Amari Cooper and Ruggs were both the first receivers off the board in their respective drafts. Facts. Carr has had 3 seasons where he has 1,000 yard runner, and we also finished 6th in 2016 in rushing. Contrast that to a guy like Matt Stafford who literally has had one 1,000 yard runner in his entire 12 year career. That's a real victim right there, not Carr. Edited February 23, 2021 by SilverNBlackFan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BayRaider Posted February 23, 2021 Share Posted February 23, 2021 (edited) 11 minutes ago, BackinBlack said: these resources being? AB Jordy Nelson Tyrell Williams - turf toe week 4 2019, and missed all 2020 M Bryant Amari - this one is legit, and he balled first two years, not sure what happen (This legit Carr deserves blame) Trent Brown - KO - packed it in I agree the raiders have tried to put peices around Carr. . but our drafts have been bad, and we are picking up players who are ready to retire in FA. He never has a horrible line outside of one season. He's had one horrible line his whole career which was 2018. 2014/2015 were Top 10 in Pass Pro, 2016 one of the best Pass Protections ever in this sport, #1 for that year (Cowboys #1 Overall), 2017 Top 5 Pass Pro, 2018 Bottom 10, 2019 Top 3 Pass Pro, and in 2020 he had a pretty average to slightly above-average line. No one spends more money on their line to protect their QB than the Raiders do. And we've seen how Carr performs without a great line... it isn't pretty. One of the perks of a QB like Mahomes, Rodgers, Wilson, Allen, Watson, etc is that they don't need a great line to have a great season. He consistently has had a Top 5 TE since 2017. Cook was Top 5 during his tenure here, although age has caught up to him the past season or two. He had a solid receiving core in 2015 through 2017. 2018-2019 I'll admit not so much. However, most QB's don't have a solid receiving core. I feel like some Raider fans always want Carr to have an all-star team. The receiving game, running game, line protection, and coaching all have to be 100% perfect or else anything Carr does that's bad "doesn't count" and he gets a free pass. It's amazing at the amount of excuses. As for 2020, his receiving core is much better. I always figured Carr wouldn't use a Ruggs type, and that's on him. Different QB would be fully taking advantage of Ruggs. Also Agholor is a solid starting WR in this league, and will be starting somewhere next year. Edited February 23, 2021 by BayRaider Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BackinBlack Posted February 23, 2021 Share Posted February 23, 2021 24 minutes ago, SilverNBlackFan said: When you are consistently that lopsided in spending, are you really surprised the defense has been trash. You do realize that just because we were 2nd in O spending doesnt mean we were 31st in D spending right? we were actually 16th in D spending. Spending 104 on O and 59 Mil on D - Take out 21 M from Trent, 11 mil from Tyrell, and 6.1 from Ritchie. thats 38mil, then stupid witten is another 4.25m - Those 4 players where essentially useless and did nothing for our O 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilverNBlackFan Posted February 23, 2021 Share Posted February 23, 2021 Just now, BackinBlack said: You do realize that just because we were 2nd in O spending doesnt mean we were 31st in D spending right? we were actually 16th in D spending. Spending 104 on O and 59 Mil on D - Take out 21 M from Trent, 11 mil from Tyrell, and 6.1 from Ritchie. thats 38mil, then stupid witten is another 4.25m - Those 4 players where essentially useless and did nothing for our O Key word is consistently Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BackinBlack Posted February 23, 2021 Share Posted February 23, 2021 3 minutes ago, SilverNBlackFan said: Key word is consistently Ok so then you agree Carrs number #2 spent O last year is a bit of a stretch since 40% of the money spent didnt impact Carr at all? He didnt have those resources, so why would you bring that up in a debate about Carrs performance? again, lets judge Carr off how he played. 40% of money we allocated to our O didnt play, and it was a top 10 unit. that is impressive alone. - We have consistently been in the middle of money spent on D. Our D has consistently been trash (20th or worse in ppg) since Carr has been a Raider. - the problem here, is we sign 1 or 2 FAs every off season to too big of contracts, on both sides of the ball. And then those FAs turn out to be duds. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NCOUGHMAN Posted February 23, 2021 Share Posted February 23, 2021 27 minutes ago, BackinBlack said: Bud, do you really want me to provide a list of Carrs weapons over his career? If you think our weapons have been better than the majority of QBs than you are mistaken. 2020 - very nice of you to mention that we spent so much on O, but you do realize like 35mil of it plaed like 20 total snaps? 2019- how much money did we pay AB? honest quesiton, but again we pay players that dont actual play in games. 2018 - wasnt jordy about to retire and gruden talked him out of it?!? and M Bryant wow what an impact player. Sure we spend a lot on weapons, but, unfortunately we spend it on players who dont play. Thats not on Carr, that is on the FO. Does it matter? Some posters here say even if we drafted Jefferson over hr3. Jefferson wouldn’t produce the way he did in minn cause of carr. Are you in that group? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BackinBlack Posted February 23, 2021 Share Posted February 23, 2021 1 minute ago, NCOUGHMAN said: Does it matter? Some posters here say even if we drafted Jefferson over hr3. Jefferson wouldn’t produce the way he did in minn cause of carr. Are you in that group? Honestly I have no idea, I am in the group that says, there is more than just Carr to determine that answer. Jefferson was targeted 125 times Ruggs was targeted 43 times. - - did Ruggs have troubles catching slants in practice which is why Gruden was hesitant to call them in games? they didnt turn out well when he did. I wasnt there so i dont know. does Gruden dial up 3 times more calls to Jefferson than he did in Ruggs? I dont know. (maybe Carr couldve forced more, but def not 80 haha) Does Carr target Jefferson 125 times? probably not with Waller. Does Gruden run a harder O to pick up then Minn? no idea Did Ruggs struggle to pick up the O where Jefferson wouldve exceled? no idea. Was Ruggs used as a decoy to open up underneath / run game? Whereas JEfferson the targeted WR? - I doubt Jefferson puts up his numbers in our O. If Carr was QB of Minn last season, I think he couldve had similar numbers. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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