The Carr dilemma in 2021

[Devilshark69]

12 hours ago, Frankie2Gunz said:

Do you have any idea how much of a factor QB snap to ball release is for Oline?  The fact that Carr has been one of the best in the NFL in snap to ball release over his career is a major factor in how the Oline is viewed in pass protection.  Put a bum like Winston back there that holds onto the ball forever and this Oline line is below average.  We have vastly overpaid our Oline as none of the players we have had along the line have been elite minus Hudson and Incognito.  Miller played well last year but is hardly in the elite category yet.  Also how have those Olines preformed in the run game over Carr's career?  Look at the RB's YPC over the span of Carr's career before you start flaunting how great our Oline play has been, that is unless you don't factor in snap to ball release and RB YPC into Oline play.

You tout Cook as a top TE?  Are you kidding me?  The guy was a career castoff who in his prior 8 seasons to joining the Raiders averaged 340 yards and 2TD's.  Carr made Cook appear better than he was based on sheer volume.  

Our WR's and RB's over Carr's career:

2014: Jones, Streater, Moore, Little, Holmes, Criner RB: MJD and Mcfadden

2015: Holmes, Streater, Jones, Butler, Tompkins, Roberts RB: Murray and MJD

2016: Cooper, Crabtree, Roberts, Holmes, Holton RB: Murry and T. Jones

2017:  Cooper, Crabtree, Holton, Paterson, Roberts RB:  Lynch and Washington

2018: Nelson, Ateman, Holton, Hatcher, Roberts RB:  Lynch and Martin

2019: JJ Nelson, Harris, Renfrow, Grant, Ateman RB: Jacobs and Richard

You can try to defend that list all you want but anyone that understands football looks at that list and knows what absolute garbage it is. 

Cooper is not an elite #1 and never will be.  He is a complimentary piece that that needs other players to be the focal point in order to have success and even then he is extremely inconstant.  He will certainly never live up to his top 5 draft pick status and no way will ever be worth the 20 million Old Man Jones shelled out for his soft a$$.

Crabtree was played well his first two years with the Raiders and had earned the trust of Carr because of his exceptional hands.  Make no mistake about it Crabtree was no where near an elite WR but was a solid number 2 and as soon as he left the Raiders his career was over.  

The rest of the WR's outside of Cooper and Crabs flat out worthless trash who don't belong on an NFL roster (minus Renfrow who is a decent slot WR). 

The list of RB's are also a joke minus Jacobs and Murray, who is a decent backup but has no business starting anywhere.  Fat old washed up bums like Lynch, MJD and Martin LOL Washington and T. Jones...  Mega bust garbage in DMC....  

It's pretty remarkable how inept the front office has been over the last decade but this list of absolute trash is a testament as to how bad the FO has been at drafting and acquiring talent of any type.  

 

Spot on, great post. Only thing I disagree with is lynch,  he had a little gas left, however,  he did get injured. So that's kind of a wash. Lol.  

[Frankie2Gunz]

8 hours ago, bucksavage1 said:

 

He doesn't pass enough to his WRs. So his WRs aren't engaged in the game as much. 

Look at the list of WR's I listed in the post above.  Would be confidant throwing to that list of garbage?  Over 90 percent of the WR's on that list don't belong in the NFL...  

[FloydFan]

7 hours ago, bucksavage1 said:

Another poster content with losing.  Where have the Raiders gone with Carr? 

 

We're in purgatory with Carr. Haven't won anything or elevated the team. Carr is basically a Ryan Fitzpatrick, Jay Cutler, Jeff George,  Dante Culpepper,   type QB. Good enough to put up numbers but little to no impact on winning. Good enough for 5-8 wins per year

We could literally trade Carr and start Mariota

 

I wouldn't say that yet. It seems to me that rumors are flying everywhere at this moment. I wouldnt deny that the Raiders shopped both Carr and Mariota gauge value. Also discuss extensions with agent. Nothing concrete yet until it happens

 

 

Bro every media outlet in the country is reporting that they're giving all inquiring teams a "firm no." It's going to take a huge deal to pry Carr from the Raiders at this point. Also the sheer fact that there is so much interest in him should show you the regard he holds in the league. Look at things objectively. Are there better QBs, yes. Are we getting one this season, no lol. Also lmao at Mariota. One game gtfo dude. I watched that man's whole career as a Titan and if it's that route you want to go I don't think it's me that's content with losing 🤣🤣🤣

[BackinBlack]

9 hours ago, bucksavage1 said:

 

He doesn't pass enough to his WRs. So his WRs aren't engaged in the game as much. 

yikes, get those losers off this team. 
We are a run first team, with a top 3 TE. 
we dont have 1 WR that deserves 100 targets a season.

[BackinBlack]

7 hours ago, bucksavage1 said:

Another poster content with losing.  Where have the Raiders gone with Carr? 

 

We're in purgatory with Carr. Haven't won anything or elevated the team. Carr is basically a Ryan Fitzpatrick, Jay Cutler, Jeff George,  Dante Culpepper,   type QB. Good enough to put up numbers but little to no impact on winning. Good enough for 5-8 wins per year

We could literally trade Carr and start Mariota

 

I wouldn't say that yet. It seems to me that rumors are flying everywhere at this moment. I wouldnt deny that the Raiders shopped both Carr and Mariota gauge value. Also discuss extensions with agent. Nothing concrete yet until it happens

 

 

Tlak about content with losing... Mariota played 1 game for us and lost, and you are preaching for him to start lol

[BackinBlack]

also, you are fine with WRs giving up because they dont get enough targets ??. . 
I think it is you sir who is content with losing. 
anything that helps you bash Carr, is a win in your book.

Hunter Renfrow, balls out. Gives it everything. - Person I want on our team
Nelly - player on his last chance - giving it everything - person i want on our team

Zay Jones - scrub, who your telling me gave up because he didnt get enough targets - get him out of here lol

[Humble_Beast]

aint no dilemma

DC has been one of the best draft picks in the last 21 years (no joke, look at the history of this franchise). Give DC the bag, 6y 200m extension with a nice signing bonus. 

[G]

8 hours ago, FloydFan said:

Jfc the Carr haters in here just try to make one thing or another. I'll never forget the alpha male argument🤣 Biggest bunch of pearl clutchers I've ever seen. Analytically he is definitely above replacement level and was a top ten QB this year and has gotten better each year in Gruden's system. Short of getting Watson or Wilson, which we don't have the capital to do, what are we gonna do to upgrade? Let it go and please come to terms with the fact he is the guy going forward. Be realistic and quit looking for nonsense arguments to just try and back up the nonsense you've spouted over the past three years.

Many times I just go to the last page of these kind of threads the past year because to add to your post...I REMEMBER how bad we've been at QB for many decades. If it was 'easy' to get a franchise QB all the other teams would have done it too. I think our early success has us looking through a winning franchise and not the complete mess of an organization that we really are. Al won with castaways. Later he had to overpay because of his controlling ways. At least Mark doesn't try to meddle but he gave the HC (Gruden) too much to lure him out of the booth after a decade out of the coaching ranks. 3 years of knocking off the rust and 'Chucky' better be ready because he's got us to deal with another 7 years. We won't be eating a single season of that contract so we got Carr some weapons. Lets get a Defense and draft some protection (3rd/4th) to groom to keep Carr healthy over that contract.

[NCOUGHMAN]

53 minutes ago, BackinBlack said:

also, you are fine with WRs giving up because they dont get enough targets ??. . 
I think it is you sir who is content with losing. 
anything that helps you bash Carr, is a win in your book.

Hunter Renfrow, balls out. Gives it everything. - Person I want on our team
Nelly - player on his last chance - giving it everything - person i want on our team

Zay Jones - scrub, who your telling me gave up because he didnt get enough targets - get him out of here lol

Have you ever played wr? Can any ex wr’s speak up. I’ve coached wr’s. After getting ignored for a while they usually don’t run the routes as crisp as in the first qtr. honestly if I was a fa wr I wouldn’t want to sign here cause carr isn’t a wr friendly qb. 

[NCOUGHMAN]

1 hour ago, BackinBlack said:

yikes, get those losers off this team. 
We are a run first team, with a top 3 TE. 
we dont have 1 WR that deserves 100 targets a season.

Why draft hr3 then? Is he just a decoy?

I think nelly deserved 100 targets

[BackinBlack]

7 minutes ago, NCOUGHMAN said:

Have you ever played wr? Can any ex wr’s speak up. I’ve coached wr’s. After getting ignored for a while they usually don’t run the routes as crisp as in the first qtr. honestly if I was a fa wr I wouldn’t want to sign here cause carr isn’t a wr friendly qb. 

lol i actually grew up playing WR, but am a similar build to Renfrow, so I was used to not getting the ball a ton lol. 

I have no problem with the bold, and I agree with it. (plus with us being a run first team, its not entirely just Carr). A WR used to 100+ targets probably isnt looking at the Raiders. But WRs already on our team, need to be professional and realize they are getting paid to play

I have a problem with posters wanting to blame Carr for everything, but then having no problem just saying oh well the WRs got lazy. Are you kidding me??? Carr is the only person we are going to hold responsible now? 
 

WRs that are on our team, I expect to give it their all. I wish we had better depth so that if someone was slacking we cut put in someone who will go balls out, but unfortunately our depth was Zay Jones. 
 

[BackinBlack]

10 minutes ago, NCOUGHMAN said:

Why draft hr3 then? Is he just a decoy?

I think nelly deserved 100 targets

I think HR3, was drafted to stretch the field. Open up things for the O.
This season he was mainly a decoy, but I believe I could notice his impact when he was on thefield. 
We will see if his role continues to grow, I think it will. But I do not think Gruden expected him to have 100 targets last year when drafting him. 

Nelly had mid 80 targets, which is pretty fair for him I think. 

Waller had 145 targets, Carr had 517 attempts. So 28% of our attempts where to Waller. 
I think by design Waller is our first option, then add in Carrs comfort level throwing to him. 
--
Tom Brady had 600+ attempts
Matt Ryan 626
Big Ben 600+
- - 
We are not a pass first team, we have a top 3 TE, If you are a WR wanting 100+ targets a year, it is not hard to realzie the Raiders are not your best option. 

[oakdb36]

Agholor wasn't far off from his career high in targets while playing way less snaps.

[NCOUGHMAN]

13 minutes ago, BackinBlack said:

lol i actually grew up playing WR, but am a similar build to Renfrow, so I was used to not getting the ball a ton lol. 

I have no problem with the bold, and I agree with it. (plus with us being a run first team, its not entirely just Carr). A WR used to 100+ targets probably isnt looking at the Raiders. But WRs already on our team, need to be professional and realize they are getting paid to play

I have a problem with posters wanting to blame Carr for everything, but then having no problem just saying oh well the WRs got lazy. Are you kidding me??? Carr is the only person we are going to hold responsible now? 
 

WRs that are on our team, I expect to give it their all. I wish we had better depth so that if someone was slacking we cut put in someone who will go balls out, but unfortunately our depth was Zay Jones. 
 

I was watching this suh interview and he mentioned at a certain point in a players career they don’t want to coach up young guys and would rather surround themselves with vets. I think carr is at that level unfortunately we are very young esp at wr.

Question tho after getting ignored at wr during a game would your routes be less crisp the more you were ignored?

[NCOUGHMAN]

10 minutes ago, BackinBlack said:

I think HR3, was drafted to stretch the field. Open up things for the O.
This season he was mainly a decoy, but I believe I could notice his impact when he was on thefield. 
We will see if his role continues to grow, I think it will. But I do not think Gruden expected him to have 100 targets last year when drafting him. 

Nelly had mid 80 targets, which is pretty fair for him I think. 

Waller had 145 targets, Carr had 517 attempts. So 28% of our attempts where to Waller. 
I think by design Waller is our first option, then add in Carrs comfort level throwing to him. 
--
Tom Brady had 600+ attempts
Matt Ryan 626
Big Ben 600+
- - 
We are not a pass first team, we have a top 3 TE, If you are a WR wanting 100+ targets a year, it is not hard to realzie the Raiders are not your best option. 

Unfortunately due to waller getting so many targets I don’t think we’ll ever have strong wr play. Stud wrs will never want to play here. The guys we draft will leave once their rookie deal is over. Revolving door. We better keep nelly but I don’t even think he wants to come back.