Uncle Buck Posted December 7, 2020 Share Posted December 7, 2020 (edited) 11 minutes ago, Saint_James said: I'm really honestly miffed that you dropped the "cheating" word here. That game was before the "hit to the head" rule and all that for QB's, so the only illegal things happening in that game were a few routine late hits on Favre. Nobody would reasonably call that "cheating". There was literally no rule that said you couldn't beat on a quarterback above the knees. So what gives with this??? You guys have spoiled our post season twice now, once with an illegal offensive push-off by Rudolph for the going away score. And I'm not sitting here whining that you were "cheating" or hating on your coach. What is with your Sean Payton hate anyway? I used the word "cheating" because I believe Sean Payton knew it was going on. Right after that game, I actually didn't have as big of a problem with what happened in our game, because it was harder to see. What really sealed it for me was when I saw a replay of the blatant hit they put on Kurt Warner. That was just completely obvious. That's why I have such a problem with Payton. I agree with you on the play by Kyle Rudolph. That was a push-off and should have been a penalty on the Vikings. At the same time, I don't think it was something he was encouraged to do by the coaching staff, and we certainly haven't ever heard of any payments for plays like that either. Edited December 7, 2020 by Uncle Buck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint_James Posted December 7, 2020 Share Posted December 7, 2020 (edited) 35 minutes ago, Uncle Buck said: I used the word "cheating" because I believe Sean Payton knew it was going on. Right after that game, I actually didn't have as big of a problem with what happened in our game, because it was harder to see. What really sealed it for me was when I saw a replay of the blatant hit they put on Kurt Warner. That was just completely obvious. That's why I have such a problem with the Payton. I agree with you on the play by Kyle Rudolph. That was a push-off and should have been a penalty on the Vikings. At the same time, I don't think it was something he was encouraged to do by the coaching staff, and we certainly haven't ever heard of any payments for plays like that either. Bounties are not cheating though. Cheating is breaking rules to gain an unfair competitive advantage on the other team. That didn't happen against your team. We just beat the hell out of Brett Favre with (mostly) legal hits. So stop using that word cheating please. If you don't think the Vikings DC wanted to do EXACTLY the same thing to Drew Brees, you're kidding yourself. The goal is to get to the quarterback, come on now. I'm not defending the ethics of the situation with Gregg Williams, but it's simply not "cheating". Now the Kurt Warner hit...okay you're starting to piss me off a little bit with this stuff. He threw an interception and started to run toward the defender, the rules state that at that point he is the same as ANY other player on the field. Zero protections. A Saint player made a legal block, TOTALLY legal, on Warner to spring his team mate that Warner was about to try and tackle. Are you kidding me? I just watched the replay again. How dare you call that "cheating" man. He didn't even hit him in the head, Warner was just caught totally by surprise. What are we supposed to do? Let him make that tackle or something? Edited December 7, 2020 by Saint_James Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kip Smithers Posted December 7, 2020 Share Posted December 7, 2020 As more context is given, yeah I don’t think it was tanking. I still a stupid play call. It’s down to Gregg Williams. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TENINCH Posted December 7, 2020 Share Posted December 7, 2020 35 minutes ago, Saint_James said: What is with your Sean Payton hate anyway? https://tenor.com/view/sean-payton-skol-chant-vikings-gif-10819341 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uncle Buck Posted December 7, 2020 Share Posted December 7, 2020 1 minute ago, Saint_James said: Bounties are not cheating though. Cheating is breaking rules to gain an unfair competitive advantage on the other team. That didn't happen against your team. We just beat the hell out of Brett Favre with legal hits. So stop using that word cheating please. If you don't think the Vikings DC wanted to do EXACTLY the same thing to Drew Brees, you're kidding yourself. The goal is to get to the quarterback, come on now. I'm not defending the ethics of the situation with Gregg Williams, but it's simply not "cheating". Now the Kurt Warner hit...okay you're starting to piss me off a little bit here. He threw an interception and started to run toward the defender, the rules state that at that point he is the same as ANY other player on the field. Zero protections. A Saint player made a legal block, TOTALLY legal, on Warner to spring his team mate that Warner was about to try and tackle. Are you kidding me? I just watched the replay again. How dare you call that "cheating" man. He didn't even hit him in the head, Warner was just caught totally by surprise. What are we supposed to do? Let him make that tackle or something? I think you are splitting hairs with semantics here. If you want to say that it wasn't technically "cheating", would you at least admit that it wasn't completely ethical? I'm all for hard hits - that's what the game is all about. At the same time, there is something wrong with the spirit of hitting a player with the desire to injure him and take him out of the game. Doing that, is trying to give yourself an unfair advantage, and in my book, that makes it "cheating." Take this year for example. I've been wanting nothing more than to have the Vikings make the playoffs as the 7th seed and be able to play the Saints as the #2 seed in the wildcard round. Nothing would make me happier than to knock you guys out of the playoffs. At the same time, I have nothing but respect for Drew Brees and all he has accomplished in his career, and as much as I'd love to beat the Saints in the playoffs, I would never want the Vikings to intentionally injure him. Again, hard hits are one thing, but trying to hurt him is just not right as far as I'm concerned. I'd much rather have him in there and beat you when you are at full strength. If we can't do that, then we don't deserve to win. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soko Posted December 7, 2020 Share Posted December 7, 2020 Greg Williams got fired. The Jets must’ve really ponied up to get him to keep his mouth shut! Or maybe it’s the Rothschild‘s money pumping all this? How deep does it go? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint_James Posted December 7, 2020 Share Posted December 7, 2020 Just now, Uncle Buck said: I think you are splitting hairs with semantics here. If you want to say that it wasn't technically "cheating", would you at least admit that it wasn't completely ethical? I'm all for hard hits - that's what the game is all about. At the same time, there is something wrong with the spirit of hitting a player with the desire to injure him and take him out of the game. Doing that, is trying to give yourself an unfair advantage, and in my book, that makes it "cheating." Take this year for example. I've been wanting nothing more than to have the Vikings make the playoffs as the 7th seed and be able to play the Saints as the #2 seed in the wildcard round. Nothing would make me happier than to knock you guys out of the playoffs. At the same time, I have nothing but respect for Drew Brees and all he has accomplished in his career, and as much as I'd love to beat the Saints in the playoffs, I would never want the Vikings to intentionally injure him. Again, hard hits are one thing, but trying to hurt him is just not right as far as I'm concerned. I'd much rather have him in there and beat you when you are at full strength. If we can't do that, then we don't deserve to win. You can say it was ethically wrong but it did NOT materially change the outcome of any game by granting an unfair advantage, yes. Call it what you want, it's just not "cheating". And the idea that in the middle of a turnover, in the heat of the moment, a Saint player was actively thinking "oh I better injure Kurt Warner on this play....". Seriously? You can't be serious, come on. Plus it was a legal block so what exactly are we alleging here? The Patriots filming the defensive calls/alignments of the other teams in secret? Now THAT is cheating for clear and obvious reasons. But nobody seemed to care about that all that much. Quote At the same time, there is something wrong with the spirit of hitting a player with the desire to injure him and take him out of the game. Dude the Vikings built a franchise legacy on doing just that. Ever watch some of those old NFL Films on your team??? Every defender wants to hit you as hard as humanly possible to do the most damage, they'll mostly never admit it, but that's just the job. No way you win in a debate on what teams had more dirty players over the years. I don't think you want to go there. Mike Zimmer himself has been accused of being a bit dirty. Quote I would never want the Vikings to intentionally injure him. Like that Hulk Hogan suplex by Cap Munnerlyn on Brees back in '14? Yeah sure you weren't trying to injure him. That wasn't even a hit, dude literally picked him up and dumped him on his head... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick_gb Posted December 7, 2020 Share Posted December 7, 2020 1 hour ago, Saint_James said: He was beat up, yes, but he stayed in the game. He wasn't "injured" like we forced him out of the game. What do you want from me on this? Football is a man's game, rough stuff. He was too old, too immobile held onto the ball too long and was too stubborn. Should I feel bad about having a good pass rush or something? Wtf man... If the Vikings took Drew Brees behind the woodshed none of you would be talking like this. It would be SKOOOLLLLLLL and Purple People Eaters talk or whatever, so please, who are you kidding? Goodell gave the Saints a death sentence basically while the Patriots got a slap on the wrist for outright multiple cheating scandals. Bounties are ethically wrong you could argue I guess, sure, but EXTREMELY common and it's not the same as outright cheating. That was just an over-reaction political CYA BS move because of the CTE revelations. Should you feel bad about having a good pass rush? Absolutely not, many teams have had good pass rushes but guess what they didn’t have? The bounty gate surrounding that defense that got your defensive coordinator suspended for a year the following season. just because Brett Favre continued to play in that game doesn’t mean he wasn’t injured. That’s always been Bretts thing is playing even when he shouldn’t be. He’s a mans man when it comes to being able to play injured. What the Saints organization allowed that season and what their defensive coordinator promoted was flat out wrong. Whether it’s a mans sport or not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint_James Posted December 7, 2020 Share Posted December 7, 2020 2 minutes ago, Nick_gb said: Absolutely not, many teams have had good pass rushes but guess what they didn’t have? The bounty gate surrounding that defense that got your defensive coordinator suspended for a year the following season. Actually we have it on pretty good authority that that sort of thing wasn't as rare as you would like to believe in the NFL. Heck we knew the Cowboys did it back in the 90's and they weren't punished like that. Bounties are just...unsanctioned performance bonuses. We won that Super Bowl fair and square and you haters need to stop with this silly whining. It was never proven Payton had a hand in that crap either, but we get the death penalty while the f'ing Bill Bellicheck and team skates? That's bullcrap man. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick_gb Posted December 7, 2020 Share Posted December 7, 2020 8 minutes ago, Saint_James said: Actually we have it on pretty good authority that that sort of thing wasn't as rare as you would like to believe in the NFL. Heck we knew the Cowboys did it back in the 90's and they weren't punished like that. Bounties are just...unsanctioned performance bonuses. We won that Super Bowl fair and square and you haters need to stop with this silly whining. It was never proven Payton had a hand in that crap either, but we get the death penalty while the f'ing Bill Bellicheck and team skates? That's bullcrap man. I don’t think the Bounty gate takes away from the Super Bowl win nor the tremendous season you guys had that year. I just think it was unethical and the fact you’re wearing rose colored glasses is preventing you from seeing the red flags that come with the choices that were made that season. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint_James Posted December 7, 2020 Share Posted December 7, 2020 1 minute ago, Nick_gb said: I don’t think the Bounty gate takes away from the Super Bowl win nor the tremendous season you guys had that year. I just think it was unethical and the fact you’re wearing rose colored glasses is preventing you from seeing the red flags that come with the choices that were made that season. I already said it was unethical, several times. But given that pro football is literally sanctioned violence? Not sure why it got the reaction it did frankly. Was it cheating? No. Was a death-penalty nuking of our organization consistently or fairly applied? No. Have teams in the same era done way worst but get called the best ever by fans and NFL officials? Yup.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DannyB Posted December 7, 2020 Share Posted December 7, 2020 I'll be honest... While I think, towards the top of the organization, they are hoping they've made things bad enough that they get the 1st pick, I actually DON'T think the coaching decisions on the field are directly meant to lose games on Sundays. Including this most recent one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uncle Buck Posted December 7, 2020 Share Posted December 7, 2020 2 hours ago, Saint_James said: You can say it was ethically wrong but it did NOT materially change the outcome of any game by granting an unfair advantage, yes. Call it what you want, it's just not "cheating". And the idea that in the middle of a turnover, in the heat of the moment, a Saint player was actively thinking "oh I better injure Kurt Warner on this play....". Seriously? You can't be serious, come on. Plus it was a legal block so what exactly are we alleging here? The Patriots filming the defensive calls/alignments of the other teams in secret? Now THAT is cheating for clear and obvious reasons. But nobody seemed to care about that all that much. Dude the Vikings built a franchise legacy on doing just that. Ever watch some of those old NFL Films on your team??? Every defender wants to hit you as hard as humanly possible to do the most damage, they'll mostly never admit it, but that's just the job. No way you win in a debate on what teams had more dirty players over the years. I don't think you want to go there. Mike Zimmer himself has been accused of being a bit dirty. Like that Hulk Hogan suplex by Cap Munnerlyn on Brees back in '14? Yeah sure you weren't trying to injure him. That wasn't even a hit, dude literally picked him up and dumped him on his head... This is where I think we disagee, but probably not by too much. I can agree with you that you want to hit the player hard as a way to alter their mindset during the game and gain a psychological advantage. I just think it crosses the line when you do it with the intent of actually trying to physically injure them to the point where they have to come out of the game. When we play in a couple weeks, I admit that I'll be cheering for my team's defenders to get to Drew and drop him on his head a few times. At the same time, it is in the spirit of competition and it IS NOT because I want to see him get hurt. I just want him to be so worried every time he drops back that it starts to have an effect on his decision-making and results in an extra pick or two. See what I'm trying to say? We always talk about it being a "war" out there, but it's really not. At the end of the day, it's just a competition where we want to see our favorite team win. Anyway, I don't want to get up on a soap box here. I know we are pretty close in our thinking anyway. See you guys in a couple of weeks, and may the worse team win this time! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mse326 Posted December 7, 2020 Share Posted December 7, 2020 They played cover 2 zone on the play before and Agholar ran by them. Greg Williams then dialed up the 0 blitz which he has done before as a DC. That is who he is...an idiot. This wasn't a tank, this was an incompetent DC Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ninersfan1984 Posted December 7, 2020 Share Posted December 7, 2020 (edited) The whole tanking for a QB is dumb. It over values how important a QB is to a team. People act like you just get a QB and your team will be instantly good which is not true because you need someone to run the ball and catch passes and you need a defense to win games. We are just at a time when QB’s are way overrated as a position. Edited December 7, 2020 by Ninersfan1984 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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