Missed Connections: WRs, what are they and how can we get some? {The Shrine of Jefferson}

[TheRealMcCoy]

3 hours ago, RandyMossIsBoss said:

I think Reagor can still be good, but JJ is on pace for 1,385 yards and 9 TDs, and it's not like he's doing it as the plug and play in a killer offense or for a HOF QB. That would be more production than Diggs ever gave them, and no player since the merger has had that many yards as a rookie. The only ones over 1,300 are Boldin, Moss and OBJ. You can pretty safely say this kid is going to be a very good WR for a long time. Hopefully Reagor is as well once he gets more practice and a better offense, but it's TBD, while for JJ it's really not. He is very good, and I bet he will remain very good. WR learning curve is pretty quick, there are exceptions (Davante Adams, Parker) but a large majority of good WRs drafted high produce right out of the gate in this league.

 

The good news is despite awful circumstances, and 7 games, Reagor has already outproduced Agholor and JJAW so I definitely don't think we're looking at a bust of that magnitude. Gotta take the Ws where we can get them.

No Kirk Cousins isn’t a HOF QB, but he’s been very solid to pretty good his whole time with the Vikings. He’s like 9th in passer rating this season and was 4th last season. Accuracy hasn’t really been his problem. His 3 seasons in Minnesota have been 70.1%, 69.1%, and 67.8%. Let’s take a look at Wentz’s percentages as an Eagle now.... 62.4%, 60.2%, 69.6% (outlier), 63.9%, and a pathetic 57.4% this season. Forget for a second that Reagor missed time in a shortened camp and got hurt during week 2 and missed about a month and a half. Even if he was fully healthy there is no way he could’ve come close to Jefferson’s production even if his route running was just as polished which it isn’t. Don’t get me wrong I like Jefferson, but you’re overrating him a bit if you are looking at the box scores. Throw on highlight videos from Jefferson’s games this year and you will see a lot of very accurate passes from Cousins. Dropping it in the bucket down the sideline. Put up high down the sideline where he can catch it over the DB. Lots of well placed balls on routes designed to get YAC. Better route combinations to work with. Even when Jefferson doesn’t have much separation on routes it’s usually placed in a spot he can get it. There are coverage busts that led to him being pretty wide open. Don’t get me wrong he’s had a strong rookie year, but we knew he was gonna be better year 1 being so polished and going to a situation with a pretty good NFL QB and a top 15 NFL receiver opposite him would only help matters. He also came from a much better situation in his last year of college with the #1 college WR opposite him and the best college QB and #1 pick throwing him dimes. He also got better coaching from the WR factory that is LSU. We couldn’t account for Covid not allowing for rookie mini camp or OTAs and a shortened training camp which Reagor would miss some of. He really needed that time with the new WR coach. We obviously couldn’t have accounted for Wentz turning into just about the worst QB in the league. He’s last in DVOA and like 3rd to last in passer rating. A lot of the time even if guys are open they don’t get a target cause Wentz is having trouble going through his reads this year and is playing scared in the pocket being in his own head. We also couldn’t predict Reagor would get a fluky hand injury that would require surgery and knock him out for a month and a half or so. Like I said the freak out is annoying and not called for just like fans hating on an injured Reagor and sending him nasty messages about not being as good as Jefferson. Reagor went from one of the worst QBs in college football who couldn’t hit him if he tried to going through the same thing in the NFL as a rookie. That is rough. Fans need to cut dude a break. 

[TheRealMcCoy]

14 hours ago, Scalamania said:

I don't disagree with most of the stuff in here but Reagor's #1 trait was his speed and separation, he's shown none of that so far. Maybe it's the lack of TC, maybe it's the injury, maybe it's the system or maybe his speed and separation aren't as good as everyone thought. 

The big outlier to me when talking about Reagor is seeing what Aiyuk is doing in SF. He's missed time, he's got a garbage QB throwing him the ball and he's still producing. He looks fast, he gets separation - he looks like the WR we expected when we drafted Reagor. 

I actually feel bad for Reagor - I believe that he wants to prove everyone wrong but assuming Jefferson continues to shine he and the organization are always going to have to answer the Jefferson question. 

I think his speed has looked a bit better recently. It’s not to where it was his last 2 years in college obviously, but there has to be some reason for that. He didn’t suddenly lose his speed overnight. Dude’s movement skills and top speed were elite. He basically ran just as fast (22.60) as Tyreek Hill ever has in the NFL which was 22.64 mph and he didn’t even have the ball like Reagor did on his.

For comparisons sake...

Tyreek Hill 22.64 mph as a NFL athlete without the ball.

Jalen Reagor hitting 22.60 mph as a true freshman in college on a deep route with the ball.

Here is the full play:

The reason Reagor ran so slow at the combine compared to what people predicted for him was he got up to 206 lbs by combine weigh-ins which is a significant jump from the 195 he played at in his last college season. 

I did some digging and found the 2017 TCU media guide and they had him listed at 185 lbs as a freshman. I’m guessing Reagor is playing somewhere between 194-198 right now. I think he could probably benefit a lot more considering what his game is by dropping down to like maybe 190 lbs which would still be plenty big enough for a 5’11” WR. Dude is already pretty muscular. Don’t really see dropping a bit of weight affecting his strength or contact balance. DeSean came out of college at 169 lbs and has played his career basically in the mid 170s. I don’t think it’s necessary for Reagor to be much more than high 180s to low 190s. Just some food for thought.

[EagleBlueDon]

Reagor would look better in Minnesota with Cousins and Jefferson would look worse in Philly with Wentz. Simple as that. Jefferson's been set up for success. He's had a great year and I give him his credit. But Reagor has been bogged down by this joke of a QB, play caller, and offense.

[Scalamania]

4 hours ago, TheRealMcCoy said:

I think his speed has looked a bit better recently. It’s not to where it was his last 2 years in college obviously, but there has to be some reason for that. He didn’t suddenly lose his speed overnight. Dude’s movement skills and top speed were elite. He basically ran just as fast (22.60) as Tyreek Hill ever has in the NFL which was 22.64 mph and he didn’t even have the ball like Reagor did on his.

I don't think his speed has looked all that great - if you watch him and think to yourself "Man, that guy is fast" then maybe we have to different ways of viewing speed. 

5 hours ago, TheRealMcCoy said:

Like I said the freak out is annoying and not called for just like fans hating on an injured Reagor and sending him nasty messages about not being as good as Jefferson. Reagor went from one of the worst QBs in college football who couldn’t hit him if he tried to going through the same thing in the NFL as a rookie. That is rough. Fans need to cut dude a break. 

I would never stoop to this level, it's actually sad what the kid has gone through. I said before, I feel bad for him because he's going to take a beating from the media and this fan base for years to come if he doesn't turn it around. However,  the fact that just about every other receiver taken after him (Jefferson, Aiyuk, Pittman, Higgins, Shenault, Hamler, Claypool, Jefferson and Mims) have all look better then him is a huge red flag - especially because some of those guys have terrible quarterbacks throwing to them and just as inept of an offensive staff in place. 

I hope he proves me wrong, I hope he does well and we can all move on from this but there's little to be excited about right now. 

22 minutes ago, EagleBlueDon said:

Reagor would look better in Minnesota with Cousins and Jefferson would look worse in Philly with Wentz. Simple as that. Jefferson's been set up for success. He's had a great year and I give him his credit. But Reagor has been bogged down by this joke of a QB, play caller, and offense.

This is such a terrible take - I'm sure there's people out there who thought JJAW would be doing great in SEA and Metcalf wouldn't be doing anything here. 

Jefferson is jut a better player - there's nothing that anyone can say that will disprove that. He was better in college, was a better prospect and is currently a better pro - the only place that didn't think he was a better prospect was this board and some of the Eagles podcasts. 

[RandyMossIsBoss]

10 hours ago, Scalamania said:

Jefferson is jut a better player - there's nothing that anyone can say that will disprove that. He was better in college, was a better prospect and is currently a better pro - the only place that didn't think he was a better prospect was this board and some of the Eagles podcasts. 

This. The only people who will disagree with this are those unable to admit when they made a mistake. Reagor can still be good... but Jefferson is clearly better. Again, he is on record breaking pace... 

Everybody misses, take the L and move on if you thought Reagor > JJ.

[EaglesPeteC]

1 hour ago, RandyMossIsBoss said:

This. The only people who will disagree with this are those unable to admit when they made a mistake. Reagor can still be good... but Jefferson is clearly better. Again, he is on record breaking pace... 

Everybody misses, take the L and move on if you thought Reagor > JJ.

Yup I was all on the Reagor hype train over Jefferson. I will take my L. 

[RandyMossIsBoss]

26 minutes ago, EaglesPeteC said:

Yup I was all on the Reagor hype train over Jefferson. I will take my L. 

and I was very happy we took the "sure thing" in JJAW, with his strong frame, great hands and high IQ over the boom or bust DK Metcalf who was just an underwear olympic superstar... but we're just fools on a football forum who watch some tape on a limited amount of guys and play scout. Howie and his cronies are paid 6+ figure salaries to evaluate talent and watch film year round, learn every piece of info about these prospects' and their history, and interview them to break down their character. Sure, every FO misses, but Howie's track record has been inexcusable the past 5 years. 

[EaglesPeteC]

2 minutes ago, RandyMossIsBoss said:

and I was very happy we took the "sure thing" in JJAW, with his strong frame, great hands and high IQ over the boom or bust DK Metcalf who was just an underwear olympic superstar... but we're just fools on a football forum who watch some tape on a limited amount of guys and play scout. Howie and his cronies are paid 6+ figure salaries to evaluate talent and watch film year round, learn every piece of info about these prospects' and their history, and interview them to break down their character. Sure, every FO misses, but Howie's track record has been inexcusable the past 5 years. 

It is negligence if he is still employed in a few weeks. 
 

I still think Reagor will be a nice number 2 to Chase or Devonta (🤞)but it is more than clear he is not in the same tier as Jefferson 

[Danger]

TBH, I doubted both Jefferson and Odell Beckham

I like JaMarr Chase, I hope I'm not just wrong when it comes to every LSU wide receiver.

[TheRealMcCoy]

4 hours ago, RandyMossIsBoss said:

This. The only people who will disagree with this are those unable to admit when they made a mistake. Reagor can still be good... but Jefferson is clearly better. Again, he is on record breaking pace... 

Everybody misses, take the L and move on if you thought Reagor > JJ.

Nope. I’ll wait and see like a sane person.

[TheRealMcCoy]

Reggie Wayne (345 yards 0 TDS)

Terrell Owens (520 yards 4 TDs)

Davante Adams (446 yards 3 TDs)

Isaac Bruce (272 yards 3 TDs)

Chad Johnson (329 yards 1 TD)

Calvin Johnson (756 yards 4 TDs)

Guess Justin Jefferson is clearly a better receiver than those guys.

[EagleBlueDon]

The overreaction to Jefferson vs Reagor is at a pathetic level. Like how old are some of you? Lol

[EaglesPeteC]

15 hours ago, TheRealMcCoy said:

Reggie Wayne (345 yards 0 TDS)

Terrell Owens (520 yards 4 TDs)

Davante Adams (446 yards 3 TDs)

Isaac Bruce (272 yards 3 TDs)

Chad Johnson (329 yards 1 TD)

Calvin Johnson (756 yards 4 TDs)

Guess Justin Jefferson is clearly a better receiver than those guys.

It is more than a fair point to wait and see, like I said I thought Reagor was much more of a big play receiver than Jefferson. My biggest knock on Jefferson is clearly not the case after a rookie season.

It is much harder to be patient though given the dreadful history of drafting that position and that again, it looks like every player the Eagles' could have had instead of Reagor seems to be producing right away. It is just disheartening to be at the end of a season and be having this debate......again

[RandyMossIsBoss]

8 minutes ago, EaglesPeteC said:

It is more than a fair point to wait and see, like I said I thought Reagor was much more of a big play receiver than Jefferson. My biggest knock on Jefferson is clearly not the case after a rookie season.

It is much harder to be patient though given the dreadful history of drafting that position and that again, it looks like every player the Eagles' could have had instead of Reagor seems to be producing right away. It is just disheartening to be at the end of a season and be having this debate......again

Not just WR, everyone we draft. Marcus Smith, Derek Barnett, Andre Dillard... “just be patient guys.” Meanwhile rest of league manages to get instant contributions from rookies. 

 

Jefferson Reagor is not a debate right now, hopefully one day it is. Odds are it won’t.

[EaglesPeteC]

5 minutes ago, RandyMossIsBoss said:

Not just WR, everyone we draft. Marcus Smith, Derek Barnett, Andre Dillard... “just be patient guys.” Meanwhile rest of league manages to get instant contributions from rookies. 

 

Jefferson Reagor is not a debate right now, hopefully one day it is. Odds are it won’t.

Fire Howie....like honestly. He is just dreadful at drafting. 

At least the contracts and trades were saving him, now he's made turd trades and have put them in cap hell. There is no reason for him to be employed