Defense Discussion [2017]

[Uffdaswede]

1 minute ago, NormSizedMidget said:

I know someone else who's a half empty guy. He posted elsewhere a couple times during the game mad about stuff. Then after all he posted was how we screwed up with our draft lol.

Some people can't enjoy anything.

Those are the people who provide the natural resources of hot gas and comedy gold of which memes are made. I like the idea of calling upon the name of TJ when Daniels throws aside a guard and a center, intercepts a pass, scores a touchdown, and rescues a baby falling from the grandstands as the one player who would have done it better.

[Uffdaswede]

6 minutes ago, Revel8 said:

Yeah it's healthy again, and better.  No need to question it, it's as plain as day.  The addition of House, while having Rollins and Randall healthy is a boon to the D by itself.  The CB covering many teams' #1 WRs last year is now the Packers' #5 back up...

The ILBs have another year under their belts, both OLBs are studs, and the DLine is stacked.  The depth on the DLine still hasn't even showed it's full power yet either, as Dial isn't even acclimated yet.  Brooks barely played last game too.

 

 

 

Good post. I agree that the D will be very, very good this year.

Watch out Atlanta!

[spilltray]

No matter how it plays out with the benefit of hindsight, given everything I have seen, college games, and workouts, King would have been my pick straight up.

 

6'3" 200 lb CBs who can run a 4.4 and look like they can be natural edge #1 guys are more rare than pass rushers. He seems like he'll take to the film aspects of the game and really be a perfect natural fit assuming all goes well. TJ Watt is a nice OLB prospect. There are more guys with his tools and potential than CBs like King. Being able to trade back, still get King and get Beigel too is such a great move it feels a little dirty.

[CWood21]

4 hours ago, packfanfb said:

Let's talk about this after the Atlanta game. I mean our **** 2016 defense dominated Seattle last year and no one expected them to score more than 14-17 points yesterday. We knew if we lost it was going to be due to Seattle's D. Great effort by our D no doubt, but they were made to stop that type of weak passing game offense.

Now if we go into ATL amd hold them to 20-25 points, I will say we have arrived on D. But if ATL's passing attack drops 31-35 points on us or more, we will know that we still have a long way to go. 

I'm not sure @incognito_man was being totally serious.  But you also have to look at the difference between the two rosters.  Like @spilltray said, we were relatively healthy for the game against the Seahawks.  We weren't even close to healthy against Atlanta.

[incognito_man]

Of course @incognito_man was being totally serious.

I'll say it again: this is the best defense we've had since our super bowl. Enjoy it.

[packfanfb]

9 hours ago, CWood21 said:

I'm not sure @incognito_man was being totally serious.  But you also have to look at the difference between the two rosters.  Like @spilltray said, we were relatively healthy for the game against the Seahawks.  We weren't even close to healthy against Atlanta.

All I'm saying is that it's one game against an offense our defense has looked very good against in the past. I agree this performance was even better than those, holding them to 9 points, the run defense and the pressure. However, ATL's offense (especially in ATL) is about 10x better than Seattle's offense, and is built to spread the field and throw the ball all over the place, unlike Seattle. So, let's see how we do against ATL because for me, that will be the first true test of the season for guys like House, Randall, Rollins, King, etc. as well as our intermediate coverage LBs and the effectiveness of the "nitro" package in those situations. Likewise, we will be trying to get pressure against a much better OLine. 

I'm not expecting GB to go into ATL and hold them to 9 points, ATL is too good on offense and that would be an unrealistic expectation. But how about 20-24 points? To me, that would be a statement that our defense is primed for a big year, and a consistent one (if healthy). If ATL rolls up 35 points on us and our CBs are being beat all over the field, our pass rush is non-existent, we can't get off the field in the 4th quarter, etc., that's going to tell me something different. 

[deathstar]

It's hard to evaluate a defense when it's so easy to dismiss an entire game they've played in.

[packfanfb]

We always talk about comparing draft picks and comparing the careers of two-three players that we "could" have taken in the draft, but I don't remember in recent years it being so evident or interesting. In the short term, you have TJ Watt and Dalvin Cook, who after Week 1, I'd rank as top-5 rookies in the NFL in terms of their performances. They have instantly not only contributed to their teams, but been standouts. Conversely, Kevin King played about 6-10 defensive plays for GB and basically was not noticeable (which at least for a CB is not a terrible thing). It's going to be interesting to see where King is in 6 games, 12 games, next year, and the year after. Will his progression over time at a premium position like CB make up for the fact that in the short term, we are missing out on two guys (both who were there and were said to be targets of GB at 29 or 33) who are helping their teams in a large way, right now?  

[Joe]

CB was a bigger need than OLB, especially after resigning Perry. We were able to trade down and still get who we wanted.

 

Also, what happened to the "TJ Watt is too raw" and "TJ's too big of a risk?" He has one great game against THE FRIGGIN' BROWNS and it's all doom and gloom that we passed on him...

[Norm]

27 minutes ago, packfanfb said:

We always talk about comparing draft picks and comparing the careers of two-three players that we "could" have taken in the draft, but I don't remember in recent years it being so evident or interesting. In the short term, you have TJ Watt and Dalvin Cook, who after Week 1, I'd rank as top-5 rookies in the NFL in terms of their performances. They have instantly not only contributed to their teams, but been standouts. Conversely, Kevin King played about 6-10 defensive plays for GB and basically was not noticeable (which at least for a CB is not a terrible thing). It's going to be interesting to see where King is in 6 games, 12 games, next year, and the year after. Will his progression over time at a premium position like CB make up for the fact that in the short term, we are missing out on two guys (both who were there and were said to be targets of GB at 29 or 33) who are helping their teams in a large way, right now?  

This game is too easy to do with the benefit of knowing how they would play week one.

[vegas492]

My take...King vs. Watt vs. Cook.

GB did the right thing in taking King.  Shut down potential, huge frame, great wheels, great character.  Dom doesn't like rookies so much, it is no surprise to me that he didn't start and only played a handful of snaps.  That snap total will increase as he gets more comfortable in the system.  Plain and simple...R&R boys know the defense better.  As does Gunter.

Watt would have been a fine pick.  Shows great promise as an edge player.

Cook would have been a fine pick.  Shows great promise as a starting RB.

But corner is more important than those other positions.  And King's skillset is rare to find where GB usually picks.

Now...GB could have done better in the draft.  I'm playing the hindsight game here....  I very much wish that there would have been a scenario by which they could have had King and either Watt or Cook.  Trade those later draft picks and go get those difference makers.  Watt was probably gone...but Cook was there to be had.  I"d give up all 3 of our drafted running backs for Cook.  

Our draft is looking like a clunker right now, but it will improve as VB hits the field, with Adams.  When Jones gets a few snaps and when King is fully acclimated.  

[EdMathews]

I wanted Watt but I'm perfectly happy with King/Biegel. It was the right play. I believe King is going the way of last year's #1, Clark, who gave us a glimpse of his potential his first year, and now he's a true force, a big powerful man who will only get stronger, while being one of the youngest linemen in the league. There were a dozen DL that everyone wanted ahead of Clark but he turned out to be the right pick. I think King's trajectory will be the same. He has the tools and character and his role this year is help out and gain experience. I think he's going to be really good. The criticism TT gets for not hitting on his #1 picks may finally come to an end if Randall continues to improve along with Clark and King and we end up with three core players long term for the Packers.

[Norm]

Foster out at least a month. They should have drafted someone that could help them now...

[TransientTexan]

1 hour ago, vegas492 said:

My take...King vs. Watt vs. Cook.

GB did the right thing in taking King.  Shut down potential, huge frame, great wheels, great character.  Dom doesn't like rookies so much, it is no surprise to me that he didn't start and only played a handful of snaps.  That snap total will increase as he gets more comfortable in the system.  Plain and simple...R&R boys know the defense better.  As does Gunter.

Watt would have been a fine pick.  Shows great promise as an edge player.

Cook would have been a fine pick.  Shows great promise as a starting RB.

But corner is more important than those other positions.  And King's skillset is rare to find where GB usually picks.

Now...GB could have done better in the draft.  I'm playing the hindsight game here....  I very much wish that there would have been a scenario by which they could have had King and either Watt or Cook.  Trade those later draft picks and go get those difference makers.  Watt was probably gone...but Cook was there to be had.  I"d give up all 3 of our drafted running backs for Cook.  

Our draft is looking like a clunker right now, but it will improve as VB hits the field, with Adams.  When Jones gets a few snaps and when King is fully acclimated.  

I would venture that most drafts look like clunkers if your metric is whether guys are contributing by game 1 of their rookie season. That's especially true for teams that draft late and have stronger rosters to begin with, making playing time harder to come by.

Judging by pick values, I don't think there was any scenario where they could've gotten King+Watt, unless they traded their entire draft & maybe one of next year's picks.

Cook would've taken more than the 3 RB picks. Heck that probably would've taken Biegel & Dupre's pick as well. Just gotta acknowledge the limitations of resources and the fact that other teams are also going to get good players. 
 

[Norm]

I understand the logic of drafting for guys who can play early. I just don't think it's that simple. 

I wasn't a huge Watt guy but I stuck up for Cook as much as any GB fan. Though again understood the concerns too.

Can't judge a class after a game. Gotta have patience. Next week two different high picks will play well and we can wonder why we didn't get them too. It's just the nature of things.