Biggs: Pace on shaky ground

[Madmike90]

2 hours ago, abstract_thought said:

Unfortunately you can't absolve him of his own QB situation.

No one is...simply point out that a QB is not his entire job.

[WindyCity]

31 minutes ago, Madmike90 said:

You are putting way too much stock into finding nothing but a QB...there are some great QBs in the NFL who have won nothing because they had nothing around them...we need a balance...Pace has shown he can build the team and has earned a 2nd chance to find the QB.

Why has he earned a 2nd chance?

Is it his over paid and middle of the pack defense or his perpetually bad offense?

[WindyCity]

33 minutes ago, Madmike90 said:

You are putting way too much stock into finding nothing but a QB...there are some great QBs in the NFL who have won nothing because they had nothing around them...we need a balance...Pace has shown he can build the team and has earned a 2nd chance to find the QB.

If that is the case then you need to extend Pace. There is no point letting him invest in a QB and not allowing him to build past the first year with that QB.

 

[abstract_thought]

53 minutes ago, Madmike90 said:

No one is...simply point out that a QB is not his entire job.

Agreed, but if we look at his body of work, the results aren't positive enough to give me hope for the future.

The way I view it, picking the right coach and QB are the most consequential decisions a GM can make. Pace has failed on both of those, and we have evidence that he liked other coaches and QBs who have also flopped. I don't see the Bears getting out of their current mess without a new coach and a new QB. And given his history, I'm not confident in Pace picking either one.

[JAF-N72EX]

So Pace is terrible at drafting, hiring staff, evaluating players, can't put together an offense, over paid a defense, has put us in cap hell, and sucks at finding a QB......and yet despite all of this his team has a 28-20 record with 2 playoff appearances in the last 3 years. 

Yeah, that adds up. 

Pace should play the lotto because man....that's some hella luck he's got going for him.  
 

[The_Romen]

4 hours ago, WindyCity said:

It does not matter what they save.

30 million is gone because of 2020 spending. That 30 million is not coming back it is literally set on fire.

That's not literal, jsyk.

[abstract_thought]

7 minutes ago, JAF-N72EX said:

So Pace is terrible at drafting, hiring staff, evaluating players, can't put together an offense, over paid a defense, has put us in cap hell, and sucks at finding a QB......and yet despite all of this his team has a 28-20 record with 2 playoff appearances in the last 3 years. 

Yeah, that adds up. 

Pace should play the lotto because man....that's some hella luck he's got going for him.  

Pace has a 42-54 record and has built 1 winning team in 6 seasons as a GM. His teams have not won a single playoff game.

[WindyCity]

13 minutes ago, JAF-N72EX said:

So Pace is terrible at drafting, hiring staff, evaluating players, can't put together an offense, over paid a defense, has put us in cap hell, and sucks at finding a QB......and yet despite all of this his team has a 28-20 record with 2 playoff appearances in the last 3 years. 

Yeah, that adds up. 

Pace should play the lotto because man....that's some hella luck he's got going for him.  
 

Not terrible. Mediocre, which is why we are 8-8 with a bad cap situation.

The only thing Pace is truly terrible at is evaluating QBs... is that important in the NFL?

[WindyCity]

1 minute ago, abstract_thought said:

Pace has a 42-54 record and has built 1 winning team in 6 seasons as a GM. His teams have not won a single playoff game.

The cold hard slap of reality.

We should have had a "12-4 and a one and done in the playoffs" parade the way it is celebrated around here.

[BEAR FACE DOWN ARROW]

GOL-LY.  This is a one day old topic that has twelve pages... 

I like a lot of Pace's picks, and he's gotten us a likable coach and a team with no "turds" on it.  But he's had half a decade, and the best news we've gotten lately is that the Bears benefitted from an extra playoff game.  He has two big problems, and a bunch of minor ones, that mean I'm personally fine if he's tossed. The biggest problem is missing on a QB, and then going completely all-in on that QB.  Look to the north up in GB. They have a guaranteed hall of famer QB on the roster, playing great ball.  What do they spend their first round pick on?  Another QB. How in the world do you have so much faith in Mitch Trubisky that your only big add in 4 years in Nick Foles? If you don't have faith in him (see Foles, Nick) then how the hell do you not at least try and address the position even if it's a flyer? Best case you get a magic starter out of it, or maybe a good backup, worst case at least you have something to sell fans and owners on ("Hey George, I know Mitch was benched, and Foles was worse, but lets see Jalen Hurts go after it for a bit!" )

The other big problem is that he's built this team backwards;  we have a spendy defensive loaded team in a league that favors offense. Look at the rule changes: they always benefit the passing game. Look at the officiating: it always gives the benefit of the doubt to protecting the passer and pretty much letting a ****load of holding happen.  So, again, all-in, win now, but with a spendy defense and expecting Mitch Trubisky to be good enough to carry your offense. 

 THe kicker for me was this offseason. You got a TE who is getting better and probably average-ish? OK. You get a STEAL of a CB, except he's not playing because of shoulder issues, which can't really be your fault, since how could you forsee that happening to a guy who dropped in the draft due to shoulder issues? Meanwhile, your only big add for the OL was a failed first round tackle, who will play guard. You're counting on bounce back seasons from tackles who were ****ty at run blocking at their best, and OK at pass protection.  I was miffed they didn't at least take a flyer pick on a mid round QB, but I was livid that they ignored the OL until rd 7.  I get that the FO knows their personnel better than fans and media, but if you asked ANYONE what the weakest position group on this team was before the draft, I bet most would say OL. AFter the draft? Still OL.  It wasn't until we shuffled a whole bunch of guys around that we got decent play, and frankly a lot of that seems like a lucky break.  

I think busting on Mitch was bad luck more than anything, most people thought he was QB1 or at least an argument, if you tell me you had Mahomes as possible all time great, Watson as very good, and Mitch as RB1 you're either full of it or kreskin.  But building the team without even allowing for the possibility that Mitch was not going to be great was unforgivable, and will set this team back for a couple seasons. 

[Heinz D.]

21 hours ago, topwop1 said:

I don't know who they could have drafted that would have put them into "contention" this year given where they were picking. If we had a shot at one of the top QBs such as Herbert then sure maybe but we didn't.

He had a shot at Jordan Love, as I stated in my earlier post. And a good shot, at that. Any number of high quality offensive linemen would have been there, too. They wouldn't have helped? Mims or Claypool wouldn't have helped? 

20 hours ago, HuskieBear said:

i mean, pace did technically draft 2 lineman, a dynamic playmaker in mooney and potentially another one in kmet, and a CB that looks like he will be very good for a long time. what you're asking for is a draft where we have 5 picks in the top 50. tbh, i think pace did a pretty good job for what he had, albiet he created what he had, and i am overall pretty happy with this years draft picks. 

side note, gipson was much more noticeable yesterday, and almost got home on a sack. i look forward to his continued development 

Two offensive linemen in the seventh who have barely played. The TE was developmental, and for winning in the playoffs this year, the CB was unnecessary. 

Gipson flashed the week before too. Very happy to see that. Gipson is lone reason I tentatively raised my draft grade from a D+ to a C-. It turns out I was being kind to Pace with my grading. 

20 hours ago, JAF-N72EX said:

So you judge drafts based on how pundits grade them?  That's weird for many reasons. 

4 out of the 7 picks played a significant role this year.  3 of them were starters out the gate, and Vildor saved our ***** when Skrine went down with an injury. 

I judge drafts based on how I see them, and the team that is conducting them. When people tell me I'm wrong, but the vast majority of the football media agrees with me, I turn people to draft grades from the football media. 

How has Shelley been? Bad? Has he been bad? Are you sure that just because Amukamara was cut by the Raiders, he couldn't have contributed to the Bears?

The draft isn't merely about the players, it's about the team. The Buccaneers signed Tom Brady, but they cut have made a wild trade up to get one of the top rookie QBs. Would that have been a good move?

19 hours ago, Superman(DH23) said:

This has to be one of the most hilariously bad takes in a long time.  EVERY draft is about the future.  

Nope.

Teams that expect to contend immediately, draft players who can help them immediately. It happens every single year. Pace getting Trubisky then making the mega-deal for Mack put them squarely in a win-now mode. Obviously, some things went a little awry with the plan, but Pace hasn't done much to adjust his thinking in either direction. That, right there, Pace being bereft of any sort of coherent plan going forward, is more than enough reason to let him go. 

Edited January 5, 2021 by Heinz D.

[JAF-N72EX]

4 minutes ago, Heinz D. said:

I judge drafts based on how I see them, and the team that is conducting them. When people tell me I'm wrong, but the vast majority of the football media agrees with me, I turn people to draft grades from the football media. 

Dude the media give their opinions on players during draft time based on how good or bad they think those players will turn out to be in the NFL and they are wrong just as often as the next guy.  I bet if you went back and asked the media to regrade those drafts 3-5 years later you would get a much different answer. 

Using that as a way to judge drafts is a terrible way to do it. 

[Heinz D.]

14 minutes ago, JAF-N72EX said:

Dude the media give their opinions on players during draft time based on how good or bad they think those players will turn out to be in the NFL and they are wrong just as often as the next guy.  I bet if you went back and asked the media to regrade those drafts 3-5 years later you would get a much different answer. 

Using that as a way to judge drafts is a terrible way to do it. 

As I said, I judge drafts based upon how I see them. 

[Madmike90]

4 hours ago, WindyCity said:

Why has he earned a 2nd chance?

Is it his over paid and middle of the pack defense or his perpetually bad offense?

No it's his and Nagy's record over the last three years of winning football even with a poor QB...you are massively under selling a quality record because you want a QB who's jersey you want to buy.

[Madmike90]

4 hours ago, WindyCity said:

If that is the case then you need to extend Pace. There is no point letting him invest in a QB and not allowing him to build past the first year with that QB.

 

I would have faith in extending Pace.