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Spinning Tires: Steelers 2021 Offseason and Beyond...


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18 minutes ago, warfelg said:

I want to see what happens in 2 years post Ben clear cap to operate beforehand.  His entire tenure has been us chasing the cap to keep people.

Not me, I want to see us in the same cap situation since we have Watson and JJ Watts contracts still on the books lol. In reality I think he’s got to be on at least a warm seat, yes he’s been forced to deal with the cap but he’s had some extremely talented rosters and he has often disappointed.  During his tenure we also had a bunch of higher picks that haven’t lived up to their expectations. That may fall more on the coaching underneath him, but when you’re the boss you need to push for the right talent in position coaching. I don’t think it’s time to move on from him but he should be feeling pressure to succeed. 

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I just want a fresh start.

I think Tomlin would benefit as well.

Im not saying life after Tomlin/Ben will be better.   It likely wont....but I dont feel like we are moving forward with Tomlin.   I dont feel like this team has moved forward much in the last 10 years.   We took some steps back and then bounced back, but never took steps beyond where we were.

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1 hour ago, 43M said:

I just want a fresh start.

I think Tomlin would benefit as well.

Im not saying life after Tomlin/Ben will be better.   It likely wont....but I dont feel like we are moving forward with Tomlin.   I dont feel like this team has moved forward much in the last 10 years.   We took some steps back and then bounced back, but never took steps beyond where we were.

I agree. Kind of stagnant. We had our shots for a few years in that decade but something always came up. The best teams we had over the decade were wrecked with untimely injuries. 

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2 hours ago, MOSteelers56 said:

I agree. Kind of stagnant. We had our shots for a few years in that decade but something always came up. The best teams we had over the decade were wrecked with untimely injuries. 

It’s honestly such a strange decade to go back over the “what might have been”. 

Lost the Super bowl. Lost the WC game to the Tebow Broncos because of Ryan Mundy. Had a two year dip as we purged the old guard and transformed into an offensive team. Back to the playoffs with the Ben Tate (seriously, you remember?) Ravens game. Lost the Broncos divisional game down AB and Bell that also had the Payton “giving myself up, no no just kidding” play. Lost the Conference against the Pats, because, well, it’s the Pats and Bell got injured early. Lost to the Jags the year Shazier was lost (this was the damn year though...). Purged two years and rebuilt the D. Two weeks ago browns game. 

Obviously things we coulda done better, but that’s a pretty incredible run. It also an incredibly disappointing run, but still. I think we should have had one more trip to the super bowl (2017 team) and 1 more trip to the conference championship game (2016). That would wildly change the narrative on homer steelers fans. 

Im not trying to point that out as a defense of Tomlin, we played the games and the outcomes are what they are. But it’s wild how thin the line can be from liability to legacy. 

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19 hours ago, Dcash4 said:

You can say the same thing about Andy Reid, only with 8 more years to that number. Point is all good coaches have flaws and a big part of that is because we are a reactionary to every thing that happens. Tomlin went with his gut and relying on his strong defense -- failed. Frank Reicht went with the analytics -- failed. So can Tomlin because he needs to update to someone like Frank Reicht? I dont know. Probably not as cut and dry as it might seem in the moment of hating that Tomlin didn't go for it on 4th and 1 (and yes, I hated that decision). 

Look at the playoff records and years in between Reid SB appearances and Paytons only one (two of the best coaches in the leagues). Same with Carroll or Harbaugh. The things pointed out about Tomlin (in game flaws, lack of recent playoff success) you can say about each and every one of those coaches over either current stretches or longer stretches than Tomlin. 

Uh huh....So Tomlin is responsible for none of the success? Got it. 

I'd love to see the list of continually successful teams that only have one of the 3 (HC, GM, QB) being a quality piece, but I know there isnt one. 

I lean to the side of firing Tomlin far more than I lean in on keeping him. I think this should be a truthful prove it year for him, which is why his OC coach is a bit disappointing if it is Canada to me. But half the arguments people have against Tomlin are just ignorant. Could it just be time to move on? Absolutely. But he is a good coach you are moving on from and more likely to find a worse replacement than a markedly better one.

Coaches suddenly changing that far into their career are an outlier...not the norm.

You can do better than Tomlin...you can do worse...and that puts him in possibly the worst area possible....average.

His message is stale...it happens.

Were at the point of probably agreeing to disagree.

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29 minutes ago, jebrick said:

Did they cut Fort or was he a FA?  He started for the Ravens for most of the year but I am guessing his pay was low.

 

This is just a really bad time for the cap to drop by 25M.

Signed by the Eagles last year, was cut by the Eagles the week that was the cutoff to count for compensatory pick minimum. 

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29 minutes ago, jebrick said:

Did they cut Fort or was he a FA?  He started for the Ravens for most of the year but I am guessing his pay was low.

 

This is just a really bad time for the cap to drop by 25M.

He was originally signed by Philly, which would have probably netted us a comp pick. But they cut him, which knocks the comp pick out, and he signed with Baltimore. At least that's what I thought happened. 

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That extra 4th is valuable especially at certain deep positions draft wise.

I know everyone wants offense heavy and rightfully so...but that’s not how the Steelers operate generally.

Assuming Bud gone and 1 of Hilton/Sutton as well...they could use...DL depth/OLB depth/CB depth and S depth.

Id be amazed they don’t come out of day 2 with a defensive guy.

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24 minutes ago, AFF said:

You can do better than Tomlin...you can do worse...and that puts him in possibly the worst area possible....average.

The only part I don't agree with anything your saying AFF is this. Its a sliding scale of good to bad, not 3 defined buckets. You CAN do better then Belichick....its just highly unlikely. You CAN find a better offensive mind than Shanahan or McVay or Reid. You just wont do that easily. Just because you CAN do better than Tomlin and CAN do worse, doesn't make him average. 

That's like saying because Russell Wilson isn't better than Pat Mahomes. that Wilson must be average. 

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54 minutes ago, Dcash4 said:

The only part I don't agree with anything your saying AFF is this. Its a sliding scale of good to bad, not 3 defined buckets. You CAN do better then Belichick....its just highly unlikely. You CAN find a better offensive mind than Shanahan or McVay or Reid. You just wont do that easily. Just because you CAN do better than Tomlin and CAN do worse, doesn't make him average. 

That's like saying because Russell Wilson isn't better than Pat Mahomes. that Wilson must be average. 

You’re comparing a top 2 QB to a top 5-6 QB...not really the same as I consider Tomlin further down.

I don’t see what Tomlin brings...supposedly a DB guy, couldn’t develop too much til Austin came on board. More of a “gut” guy supposedly compared to analytics.

Consistently playing down to level of competition, piss poor playoff record in last 10 years and even in the last few years, has crapped the bed come December.

I said 2 years ago he should be on hot seat, he deserves credit for record last  year...and then same crap this year.

Were talking in circles here it seems...agree to disagree at this point.

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59 minutes ago, AFF said:

Were talking in circles here it seems...agree to disagree at this point.

The funny part is that I dont disagree with the notion of moving on from Tomlin, I just hate the way so many try to validate it. 

Like playoff record. In the 15 years in between Reids SB appearances he was 5-9. Its essentially the same percentages to Tomlins 3-6 in 10 years since we lost to the Packers. Payton, 5-7 in 10 (coaching) years since his SB.  Harbaugh is 2-4 in the 8 years. Carroll 3-5. Good coaches, bad playoff records. Why? Because its really really really really really really hard to win in this league consistently and only 1 team that enters the playoffs each year ends without a loss. 

The "gut" thing again is something Reid also does, and why he has issues with TO and clock management. We also covered the Tomlin Gut vs Frank Reicht analytics first round playoff exits where they both took different sides and both failed. We will sit here and trash the "gut call" not to go for it against the Browns like we forget that in 2017 the "gut call" was to go for it -- both resulting in failures and immediate Jaguar scores. 

So basically, unless we stumble into the next Belichik/Patriots situation (nearly impossible), get ready to fire up this argument again in 10 years. Just copy and paste it for ease. 

You wanna move on from Tomlin, cool. But stop using arguments that you can say about literally every other good coach and trying to sell it as the reasons why you need to find someone "better". Chances are slim you find someone notably better. It could just flat out be time to move on. But you are going to have a difficult time finding someone notably better than Tomlin. 

Tell ya what though, could be an awesome year to do what I hope is a true prove it year for Tomlin. Daboll, Bienemy, Joe Brady, Mike McDaniel, Mike LaFleur....theres some really quality names that I think would all jump at the opportunity to be Pittsburgh's HC (provided the first two gets skipped over again). 

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