Heinz D. Posted February 12, 2021 Share Posted February 12, 2021 8 hours ago, WindyCity said: What are people's realistic options at QB if Wentz doesn't happen? The issue is the market is so thin and the Bears are at the back of the line in the draft. I still think they could pull off a blockbuster if Pace really wanted to, my guess is he doesn't. It shouldn't be too hard to trade up for Jones. That's probably their best path. Provided things don't get crazy and Russell Wilson, DeShaun Watson, and Dak Prescott all end up on the market. But I have no problem settling for Jones. Lance should not even be a consideration for this team. 8 hours ago, G08 said: I've been thinking about this... A 2nd or 3rd for Sam Darnold (don't love it) A 5th or 6th for Gardner Minshew Works for me. Like both those guys. Pretty comfortable feeling either could be groomed into better than Mitch. The Bears improve the OL and Montgomery is going to tear things up, anyway. (Thank the football gods I was wrong to sour on that kid...) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WindyCity Posted February 12, 2021 Share Posted February 12, 2021 1 hour ago, G08 said: #BringBackBiscuit Early on set dementia? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heinz D. Posted February 12, 2021 Share Posted February 12, 2021 2 hours ago, WindyCity said: Early on set dementia? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AZBearsFan Posted February 12, 2021 Share Posted February 12, 2021 7 hours ago, G08 said: What's your max? I’d give them 20 for Wentz if we got 37 back with him. Values Wentz as a late 2nd rounder. We can still hit OT at 37 and/or 52 and expect someone who can replace Massie day 1 IMO. Leno isn’t great but he also isn’t terrible, especially if we can put Whitehair alongside him. I think Massie is as good as gone already but I’d be surprised if Leno doesn’t play out the season for us. No pick or player coming back and I’d give up 52. There’s enough good there in Wentz’s history to justify a real pick for him, but also enough that gives you pause and enough financial risk to take on that I wouldn’t sell the farm. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWood21 Posted February 12, 2021 Share Posted February 12, 2021 1 hour ago, AZBearsFan said: I’d give them 20 for Wentz if we got 37 back with him. Values Wentz as a late 2nd rounder. We can still hit OT at 37 and/or 52 and expect someone who can replace Massie day 1 IMO. Leno isn’t great but he also isn’t terrible, especially if we can put Whitehair alongside him. I think Massie is as good as gone already but I’d be surprised if Leno doesn’t play out the season for us. No pick or player coming back and I’d give up 52. There’s enough good there in Wentz’s history to justify a real pick for him, but also enough that gives you pause and enough financial risk to take on that I wouldn’t sell the farm. If there's an iota of truth behind that Colts' rumor, that isn't even remotely close to getting it done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AZBearsFan Posted February 12, 2021 Share Posted February 12, 2021 (edited) 2 hours ago, CWood21 said: If there's an iota of truth behind that Colts' rumor, that isn't even remotely close to getting it done. The question I was answering though was, “What is your max?” It wasn’t “What’s a deal you’d be comfortable with that you are convinced PHI would take?” With that, I don’t think there is much of any truth to any of the rumors we are hearing. It doesn’t benefit anyone trying to buy on Wentz to let it be known what they’re offering, meaning that what we are hearing comes from PHI, and we have every reason to doubt anything coming from them seeing as how their goal is to drive the price for Wentz up over the next 5 weeks before they have to actually make a decision on his $10M roster bonus. That they’re open to moving him at all knowing they’ll have to eat $31M on their already strapped salary cap by trading him suggests that they don’t want really any part of keeping him around for 2021. Everyone else knows this. Teams push “fielding trade calls” on guys they know they’re getting rid of all the time and seldom does it amount to anything. The market will decide what Wentz is worth in a trade, and if the Bears and Colts (and any other potential suitor) are willing to be patient then it wouldn’t surprise me at all if the eventual compensation to PHI for Wentz is less than what I suggested. When it comes down to time to pay that $10M bonus to a guy they don’t want on the roster you could argue that any compensation is better, because cutting him outright would cost them another $28M in 2021 dead cap. PHI is playing a dangerous game here, as if the Bears or Colts were to instead trade for Darnold or Minshew now they’re potentially down to only one suitor and they’d be entirely over the barrel. PHI is trying to create leverage where they really don’t have any, especially with other viable options both short term and potentially long term alternatives appearing to be available for less (plus the draft). Why should the Bears or Colts trade top dollar for a guy at his lowest when they could trade that same capital and get into the top 10 of the draft and get a guy with similar upside making 20% as much for the next 5 years? Edited February 12, 2021 by AZBearsFan 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JAF-N72EX Posted February 12, 2021 Share Posted February 12, 2021 (edited) On 2/10/2021 at 7:11 AM, Heinz D. said: It was pretty clear that Nagy either handed over play-calling duties, or at the very least became more open to input. The constant (often idiotic) motion went away. They started running outside zone plays more often than Nagy's beloved inside zone, They even did stuff like pull guards and such. There were fewer bubble screens. RPO became a wrinkle, and not a staple. Let's hope things don't go back to the way things were before. That was difficult to watch. It wasn't clear at all. It was reported and it was also very visible on the field that he hadn't given up play-calling. And why would he when his job was on the line? There was also not fewer screens and RPO. It was the opposite. You don't run RPO's with a statue like Foles. Those plays are for mobile QBs and that is one trait that Mitch has over Foles. You seem to be confusing both QBs and are not taking their abilities into account here. Foles is a pocket passer with no mobility whatsoever but he is a better passer than Mitch. Both struggle to read defenses but Foles is worse when under pressure. Therefore, he's better fit from the shotgun formation where he doesn't have to move his feet as much and has more time to see the field and get a better view of it. Mitch was more flexible. That allowed Nagy to open the playbook more. ( I'm not saying Mitch is great by any means but he was better in this offense and in turn the offense was better with him because this.) This played out all season long. Percentage of plays ran from Under center/Shotgun formation Week 1-3 (Mitch): 47% / 53% Week 4-10 (Foles: 25% / 75% Week 11-17 (Mitch: 43% / 57% Edited February 12, 2021 by JAF-N72EX Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JAF-N72EX Posted February 12, 2021 Share Posted February 12, 2021 (edited) 19 hours ago, HuskieBear said: because they don't like him and by saying this it fits their narrative beter Pretty much. This is how this entire season/offseason has gone. Pace is doomed if he does and he's doomed if he doesn't. These idiots are just looking for reasons to hate. Certain idiotic fans: What are the Bears options going to be this offseason? Me: Well...it's the offseason...lets wait and see. Certain idiotic fans: Nobody is available in free agency? There's nothing out there? Me: Let's wait. *Plenty of options become available in FA* Certain idiotic fans: This franchise needs a plan for the future. Certain idiotic fans: We need a QB! Go get Watson or Wentz and give up multiple 1sts for them with no way to build around them in the future. Certain idiotic fans: Pace is going to be desperate. *Pace doesn't get desperate and he doesn't cave to HOU or Philly's ridiculous offer. Certain idiotic fans: Pace was a idiot for not giving up our future for Watson or Wentz. Edited February 12, 2021 by JAF-N72EX Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WindyCity Posted February 12, 2021 Share Posted February 12, 2021 (edited) Imagine giving a perpetually 8-8 GM who has made an absolute cluster F of the QB position the benefit of the doubt? I don’t blame anyone for assuming Pace will fail to add a decent QB this offseason. That is an evidence based opinion. All he has done at QB is repeatedly fail. Here is hoping he gets one and he doesn’t burn down the franchise in the process. Edited February 12, 2021 by WindyCity 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WindyCity Posted February 12, 2021 Share Posted February 12, 2021 Foles and Mitch didn’t run the same offense and it had nothing to do with play caller. They literally cannot run the same offense. Foles cannot go under centre, he is that pathetic of an athlete. He is better at running RPO because he is not an idiot and can read the hand off. Mitch goes under centre because it allows for more play action and he doesn’t have to read as much. It also allows him to boot and roll out. Mitch’s version of the offense is easier on the OL, that is why they look better when he plays. He is also not a useless statue which helps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G08 Posted February 12, 2021 Author Share Posted February 12, 2021 (edited) Edited February 12, 2021 by G08 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WindyCity Posted February 12, 2021 Share Posted February 12, 2021 Shiel Kapadia has an interesting prediction article up on the Athletic. -He has Wentz going to the Colts. -He has Darnold coming to the Bears for a conditional 2022 3rd that can become a 2nd if Darnold plays well. I actually do not mind taking a flyer at that cost. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BEAR FACE DOWN ARROW Posted February 12, 2021 Share Posted February 12, 2021 6 hours ago, AZBearsFan said: The question I was answering though was, “What is your max?” It wasn’t “What’s a deal you’d be comfortable with that you are convinced PHI would take?” With that, I don’t think there is much of any truth to any of the rumors we are hearing. It doesn’t benefit anyone trying to buy on Wentz to let it be known what they’re offering, meaning that what we are hearing comes from PHI, and we have every reason to doubt anything coming from them seeing as how their goal is to drive the price for Wentz up over the next 5 weeks before they have to actually make a decision on his $10M roster bonus. That they’re open to moving him at all knowing they’ll have to eat $31M on their already strapped salary cap by trading him suggests that they don’t want really any part of keeping him around for 2021. Everyone else knows this. Teams push “fielding trade calls” on guys they know they’re getting rid of all the time and seldom does it amount to anything. The market will decide what Wentz is worth in a trade, and if the Bears and Colts (and any other potential suitor) are willing to be patient then it wouldn’t surprise me at all if the eventual compensation to PHI for Wentz is less than what I suggested. When it comes down to time to pay that $10M bonus to a guy they don’t want on the roster you could argue that any compensation is better, because cutting him outright would cost them another $28M in 2021 dead cap. PHI is playing a dangerous game here, as if the Bears or Colts were to instead trade for Darnold or Minshew now they’re potentially down to only one suitor and they’d be entirely over the barrel. PHI is trying to create leverage where they really don’t have any, especially with other viable options both short term and potentially long term alternatives appearing to be available for less (plus the draft). Why should the Bears or Colts trade top dollar for a guy at his lowest when they could trade that same capital and get into the top 10 of the draft and get a guy with similar upside making 20% as much for the next 5 years? If I'm the Colts or Bears I pull some old fashioned collusion and come up with maxes and hope the other team sticks to it. I also think the fact there is no deal, that the Eagles seemed to be leaking all last week that there was a deal and they were waiting until after the SB to announce it (picture endless laughter at the idea of the Bears trading for a QB overshadowing that ****ty Superbowl) all indiciate that the Eagles have overplayed it, and both teams have some discipline to sit still. Wentz has so much risk to him that it would be crazy to give up a first round pick for him, and luckily it seems like Bears and Colts get it. A conditional 2nd, likely 3rd for Darnold? Fine, I guess? He's got a better chance of working out at QB than a 3rd pick this year, so I wouldn't be upset even though I'd rate the odds of him turning good as "nah man, nah" The best thing about having someone like Wentz or Darnold on the roster before the draft is it takes a little pressure off making a QB pick work. This years draft for QBs is going to be nuts, and it's quite possible the Bears can move up far enough to guarantee their guy, so having a "maybe" QB on hand means they can be a little patient, and if someone falls either move up or get them at 20. If nothing like that works out, grab a tackle. Also, how absolutely Bears would it be to start their offseason in which they desperately need fast solutions with multiple QBs... with JJ Watt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BEAR FACE DOWN ARROW Posted February 12, 2021 Share Posted February 12, 2021 PROBLEM: NEED YOUNG GOOD QB OLD? Check. Injured? Check. Not a QB, not even on that side of the Ball? Check. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G08 Posted February 12, 2021 Author Share Posted February 12, 2021 1 hour ago, WindyCity said: Shiel Kapadia has an interesting prediction article up on the Athletic. -He has Wentz going to the Colts. -He has Darnold coming to the Bears for a conditional 2022 3rd that can become a 2nd if Darnold plays well. I actually do not mind taking a flyer at that cost. This is where we are, huh? Trubisky: KILL HIM Darnold: hey I'd give him a shot Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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